3x 515 races at hove today

Rep from Hove was on RPGTV a good few weeks ago saying that the reason for the 490m trip being introduced was because of the number of dogs that didn’t stay 515m.  He then said that the introduction had been well received.
A cynic might say that the owners of the track are bookmakers who want it to be nigh on impossible for punters to back a winner. So to make it as close to Canine Bingo as they possibly can they move the traps closer to the bend..
I know whose version I’d tend to believe....

i remember him on he was a total bluffer,thats the party line with that 490 trip,its that common now the strong stayers are having to race over it to get a run,totally bookmaker benefit,if your dog is a non stayer it shouldnt be running at hove as its the strongest 4 bends in the country

You’re right about the welfare issue garryc.  It’s not rocket science is it that moving traps closer to the first bend means more dogs will be coming together at that first bend?
Logic suggests that, therefore, more dogs coming together at that bend must surely increase the number of collisions and therefore increase the possibility of injuries.
Yet we’re to believe that it’s been well received...

aint the game I fell in love with

its that bad a trip dogs that would be 2 to 3 grades difference are running same grade over the 490 thats how much of a leveller that shambles of a trip is

Also, if we are really to believe the “number of dogs don’t stay 515” excuse, based solely on today’s card, only about 20% of today’s runners would stay the 515m trip..

all made up aladdin

Yep - today’s bookmakers want guesswork to be THE primary factor in winner finding..

Shorter the trip the more the bookmakers like it. No stayers races for the jolly old bookmaker thank you very much.

Absolutely Sparrow.
As has been stated on numerous occasions on numerous threads, how on earth were bookmakers allowed to control the game to this extent?
Next thing we’ll be told is that the abundance of h’caps that we see these days is simply because there are a plethora of dogs that just don’t take to those awful level-start traps?!!

handicaps are fine by me the more the better,shawfield has always been handicaps very rarely level brake races which i find brilliant for betting.

Forgive me Garryc - wasn’t knocking h’caps themselves (although, personally, I can’t bear the two bend ones), I was just having a little dig (following the non-stayers of 515m excuse) as to what explanation the bookies would use to justify their introduction..

agree aladdin 2 bend handicaps are carnage ,i dont bet in sprints

the reduction of 515 grading due to the intro of the 490 has made me give up as an owner of graders at this track

Jul 30, 2019 -- 6:44PM, wedge1 wrote:

the reduction of 515 grading due to the intro of the 490 has made me give up as an owner of graders at this track

dont think you will be the last wedge

garry
I was going to encompass it but the grader in his wisdom invites more outside trainers to bring hounds the idea being filling the void of wides
hence us guys that support the track get if lucky 3 runs a month
check the stats as to the amount of trainers non local
and that's being kind
run their sh1t at hove

best track in the country for me but they are ruining it with that 490 trip.bet there for years nowadays feeding on 3 races a meeting maybe 4 or 5 other days,490 for dogs not staying 515 is total bull,

When you read Wedge’s response it makes me wonder exactly who the Hove Rep was referring to when he stated that the new 490m trip had been “well received” (Although I think I can have a guess!)

Looks like this thread struck a chord with the powers that be - they’ve put an extra 515m race on today.  So 4 out of 14 races! Well done Hove!

Next you can lobby for a stayers race if such a thing ever occurs there now. Never take much notice of this track anymore so apologies if I am wrong about them putting on anything over more than 4 bends.

Can’t recall seeing a graded stayers race there for ages Sparrow (although, admittedly, I don’t look at every card anymore).  If memory serves me right didn’t they have graded races once upon a time over 695m AND 740m?

1 graded 6 bend race this year
27th april

sad state of affairs

possibly going to get myself in trouble for this
I feel sorry for the trainers based at albourne kennels this place is the soul of hove dogs
all corals keep doing is add trainers to increase the racing strength over the last 2 years an influx of trainers travelling miles to race their hounds yeates dartnell haams keppie some of what they provide are crap

Yes 695 and 740 was my recollection Aladdin and as wonders says a sad state of affairs. Graded races over more than 4 bends are becoming extinct at virtually all tracks and next to nothing is ever said. Meanwhile more and more of this 2 bend nonsense is being foisted on punters.

Seven sprints on the 12 race Central Park card this morning as well.  Here we are bemoaning the loss of 6 bend racing - how long before we’re asking what happened to all those TRUE 4 bend races? 
With the entertainment side of the industry being replaced by racing that is structured purely for bookmaker profit, how long will the game really last?

sparrow not many dogs are bred to stay these days as for graded 695 at hove used to be s1 s2 s3 happy memories the 740 was open only

Here we are bemoaning the loss of 6 bend racing - how long before we’re asking what happened to all those TRUE 4 bend races? 
With the entertainment side of the industry being replaced by racing that is structured purely for bookmaker profit, how long will the game really last?

I suspect you already know the answer to those 2 questions AS, sadly

You’re probably right Wonders. I’m getting so pessimistic and cynical about the whole sport I think that it might be time to walk away and/or scale down my interest before there isn’t a sport to have an interest in..Apologies to all for my negativity...

wedge, I agree with the fact that so few stayers are being bred these days but what is your opinion as to why this lack of demand for stayers.

sparrow you have stated many times your aversion to sprints I also am not a fan some hounds don't get 4 bends hence some hounds need 6 alas the industry decry so in my humble and ancient opinion therein is the answer me you and some others on here are blessed we have seen the best of greyhound racing
after 48 years of owning graded stock as of yesterday I relented and gave up
I will still continue to chase the dream I can afford that but supporting my local track that treats owners with contempt they can feck off
the conversation with the trainer concerned was at best described as fraught

there's an old saying that a few people involved in this sport would do well to heed

he who pays the piper calls the tune

just keep in the mind the following list of priorities and you won't go far wrong...

1. the dogs themselves
2. owners
3. trainers & kennel staff
4. other staff working within the sport
5. bookmakers

unfortunately the counts in charge have number 5 as their top priority
and until that situation changes the cesspit of sh1t will just keep on getting deeper

Couldn,t agree more wonders.

Sad to here ur giving it up wedge. I got 3 youngsters that will start of shortly. It keeps my brain ticking over. As long as theres some racing i will always av a couple at least. I fear there are more leaving the sport than are entering it these days.

May have posted this before, but anyway. The days are gone when you had a strong pup over 4 bends and had butterflies waiting for the day when they could trial and then race over 6. Everything before that a bonus. Someone posted tuther day, I used to love this game................

wedge, at least you have been able to own dogs which alas I have never done but would have liked to have to.  My dad trained flappers in the 1930s but that was before my time and although this may not be a very popular thing to say on here was never a fan of that side of things myself.

Showing my age here but back in the day Hove would run a 740 graded race on Boxing Day. Know this for a fact because had a runner in it one year.

Yes tonic, many tracks would even run graded marathons and I have a card at home with Romford staging a graded marathon over 840 yards.

I was looking at a Race at poole a few weeks Pennys Madam was  in it I thought that will do for me  might be a price  on here Later ..

Anyway was not  paying much attention Waiting for the race and the Market on here , Then I realsed it was a Fooking sprint race Was a million

Strangely she has won a couple  times since over the standard  ,but I could not understand her being in a sprint race Just automatcally thought was the 450 distance

They run anything in them Round poole ....  Prob same CP .

.. Not been to Hove for a few years now, I know Steve one of the bookies there then used to post on here now and

again, it would be intresting to hear his views. !! 

games changed drastically over the past few years, not for the better i am afraid.

Have been doing the Hove graded for a few years and the track has been transformed since the Lads /Carols merger .We are seeing the ongoing Bagsification process in all its glory.Videos are going to be the next "improvement". The bookmakers greed and paranoia is such that they are killing the golden goose by accident.
Agree with all the 490m comments ,the racing is appalling .From a selfish betting point of view i am doing well out of them but they are a dreadful spectacle compared to 515ms.

Correction to my previous post as that graded marathon at Romford was over 1030 yards.

in the eighties and nineties if you had a sprinter it was a nightmare..... had a dog at hackney couldnt get the 484....took him to catford and at full race pace couldnt get the 385.....was a nightmare....never won a race......14 or so seconds....you can guess the comments.....led to 4th......now he would be in his element.....

3x515m tommorrow again

Just a quick flick through the results so far today shows 1 winning fav from the first 9 races - I’m guessing that, just like the introduction of the 490m races, this too will be “well received”..

One winning fav from 14 races including two winners at 8-1 and two at 10-1.  Not bad, although there may well be an enquiry as to why they weren’t ALL beaten!!

You fail to mention that on Wednesday there were 6 winning favs at Hove and that the previous week hove had the 2nd highest percentage of winning favs of all the SIS tracks, 37%. To use one meeting in isolation is not a sound idea.

Fair point Pompey...

pompey please explain why you pipe up on this as your opinion is rare

Pompey,  According to Greyhound Stats UK, favourites in graded races at Hove have a winning strike rate of 31.6%...

Aladin. The 37% I referred to was last weeks returns. The 31.6% you refer to is for the whole year, which is probably about what you would expect at most tracks.  Regards....Steve

Wedge 1. I did not realise that I had to make a certain number of posts per week before I was allowed to have an opinion.

steve was not having dig at your lack of posting just the fact you guys are loving the tosh the track supply in the form of racing you lot must be raking it in

Disagree with alot of this thread.

The stuff about 515m racing and 6 bends being a punters benefit and sprints/short runs to the bend being bookies races is plain and simple garbage. Its not even worth debating.

Just about every top judge in the country has tried 515m hove graded over the years and to my knowledge everyone has given it up. I also don't know 1 out of many pro punters who specialise in the 6 bend races.

Like Hector I much prefer the 490m graded than the 515m from a betting angle.

Tracks like Crayford/Sunderland with a much longer run to bend than the 490m have way more trouble
at the first bend.

I do admit the ideal would have been moving the winning line back 15m and having a 500m trip so it
would become the obvious Derby home.

One winning Fav and two jt. favs from today’s 14 races making that just 8 winning Favs and 3 Jt.Favs from the last 40 races. Continue like this and they’ll be below 30% before too long.  I’m sure they realise that when people start to think that they can’t possibly win they just won’t bet. Agree with hector, they are in real danger of “killing the golden goose”.........As for those on here that DO make it pay around there I congratulate you, but I’m happy to admit I now find it impossible and won’t be investing - consequently....I’m out!

aladdin i have punted hove for about 10 years and done well every year,i onlp play 515m and 695 now as the 490 is not for me.

Just TWO 515’s on tonight’s 12 race card.  The number of dogs that stay the trip must be dwindling even more!!!

someone high up has decided that 515 will become obsolete nothing wrong with 490 if the winning line was moved but hey it aint never the place has become a joke

Can u imagine the scenario. They get derby n then say its 490.

I’m not sure the owners of the track even want the Derby.  I don’t recall them showing any interest in hosting the event over the last couple of years.
Impossible to fathom graded sprints and 490’s will do just fine thank you very much!

From wot i heard lately there hat will be in the ring.

I bow to your greater knowledge if that is indeed the case Private and am happy to take back my sarcastic last comment.
Best running track by a mile and, in my humble opinion, should’ve hosted the Derby after White City closed.

I dont think many would argue with u aladdin. I think the thing thats held hove back most is the parking. I dont know how far away the horserace track is away but i ,ve heard that may be a way
forward. A park n ride shuttle bus service. I know central park av sponsors in place for nice few quid. Whether ladbroke/coral want to take up the cudgel we will wait n c.

Just the 3 races again over 515m Tuesday. **** **** ruining our sport. Scum.

brighton horse race course would be a no no for park and ride the scheme they have in place for football maybe it is easy to access the track from all directions trouble is their is nowhere apart from the finishing straight to view it

Apologies for bumping this thread up to the to again, but Rob Abrey from the Hove Racing Office is on RPGTV tonight. If memory serves me right, he was the chap that, when last on, said that the 490m races had been “well received”.  Interesting to see if he sticks to that view should they have time to discuss the issue..

will be hcp racing by this time next year

Yes Doc, probably over 285 and 490m, and I guarantee that, if implemented, they too will be “well received”!!

They’ve almost achieved their dream card tomorrow.....just the one 515 on the card

Sep 24, 2019 -- 11:04AM, theres only one best tonic wrote:

They’ve almost achieved their dream card tomorrow.....just the one 515 on the card

sad sad day

Wow - the dogs that don’t stay 515 is obviously dwindling faster than we thought!!

As you say Garryc - sad, sad day..

its got nothing to do with dogs not staying 515 the 25 metre run less                         up to the first turn is the point
hence the management not moving the line back would of been simple
back in the day hove raced over 525 yards and no banked bends easy investment set the world record in a graded race 28.17
nowaydays the betting industry want a conundrum so as to glean the profit
in my view the game is fecked

forgot to state the finish line was same then as now

Forgive me Wedge as I was being a tad sarcastic.
If you flick back to the top of this thread, you’ll see that the “we don’t have enough dogs that stay 515” excuse was put forward by the Hove rep when appearing on RPGTV a while back to justify the introduction of the 490 races.  Like you, I don’t believe it either!

News filtering through they're having every graded race over 500 soon

Sep 25, 2019 -- 1:52PM, ThirdTimeLucky wrote:

News filtering through they're having every graded race over 500 soon

500 is this going to be another new distance?

HOVE is to introduce a new 500m distance which will be used for all four-bend graded races as the 490m trip brought in last December has proven operationally difficult due to the graded strength being split between it and 515m.
Introduced as a less demanding distance than the tough former standard of 515m, there has been a mixed reaction to 490m racing, and new racing manager Daniel Rankin, who made the move from Shawfield earlier this month, has decided to act.
“There's no doubt the 490m was brought in for the right intentions,” he said. “But it's led to a very confused graded situation with two four-bend distances as we've still been using the 515m trip.
“As a result there are some real imbalances in terms of what seeds are available for the various grades and it will simplify things enormously by having all our four-bend graded races over 500m.
“I've canvassed the opinions of our trainers who have all been in favour so we are going to press on as quickly as possible, hopefully by the end of the year.
“We will maintain the one winning line so the 500m start will have a set of traps ten metres further back than the 490m distance, which we will still keep but for open-racing only although 475m will now be scrapped.
“The Winter Derby will now be over the new 500m which feedback suggests will be popular with that longer run to the first bend, while our other big four-bend competitions, the Sussex Cup and Olympic, will stay over 515m which definitely has a place as it's such a spectacle."

Thanks for that HGS. So is it possible that the implementation of the 490m trip wasn’t as “well received” as we’d been led to believe?

Whod've thunk it?

thanks hgs,so these dogs that cant get 515 can get the 500what a load of bollux,

if this is true it means corals are considering maybe sponsoring the derby

So there will be opens over 490 500 and 515. How annoying if your dogs optimum trip is 510

Lets pray this 500m trip works to most peoples liking and we can have the 2021 Derby at a serious stadium, with great viewing and on a fair track. And also a proper night out on the doorstep.

best tonic read the post hgs put up

I think this is a good compromise solution to the 490/515 problem, but it wont help my bitch who needs all of the 515 run up to get to the bend first. She's a small wide and gets bullied out of it in sprints and over the 490.
Highly doubtful that it is related to any Derby interest. Ladbroke Coral have an ideal track to host the Derby already but have shown no interest.

Wedge which part of his post have I misunderstood?

How annoying if your dogs optimum trip is 510


its the dogs who find 490 on the sharp side but don't stay 500 that I feel sorry for

best tonic the 490 and475 scrapped

The way I read it the dreaded 490 is still being used for opens

Just one 515m on this morning’s 14 race card.  Won’t be long before races over this trip will be consigned to history - well done Hove!

On a serious note, does anyone have any further updates as to when the 500m races are likely to start?