how many bookies at white city on derby final night

i would say about 40 not sure 25 silver ring and 15 main ring mr memory would know

FOUR!!!!!!!

How many at shelourne...?

Whats it all about..?

More at a flap..

Shelbourne

Emmet Hegarty - bets straight
Bernard Barry - bets straight
Yvonne Barry - bets straight
Frank Finnegan - bets without 2
Seamus Farrell - bets straight
Ted Hegarty - bets straight
JP Moran - bets straight
Seamus Mulvanny - bets without 1
Jim Fanning / John Murphy - bets straight
Tadgh Hegarty - bets straight



think i've got them all, used to be quite a few more a couple of years ago

Yvonne Barry

Bought I nice dog off of her SF

Yeah Yvonne is sound, had some decent dogs.

S/F   ...thats ten bookies at HQ...can remember double that..

Still can remember double the 4 at the Don...

Whats next year...? 2...one each side of the hotdog van

Yeah hooley - The Doc not there that much any more, then the likes of Sammy Allen, Richard Walsh, Martin Fortune, Big Barry Hogan, Jim McCann, Shane Renville all gone in recent years and you could name add a lot more going back a bit more

Wimbledon can't hold a candle to White City, in my opinion the best track there ever was. Why is the premier race held at Wimbledon anyway, surely there are better tracks in England ? It doesn't have to be in London either.

I went to Wimbledon last year (I think it was the 1/4's), what a cr*p track, a handful of bookmakers, poor food, no atmosphere and the opposing stand looks like a building site.

Apart from that is was OK (a few fav's won that night) ;-)

nothing will ever beat the white city your right

white city worlds greatest track end of

At the Don due to The GRA holding the rights to THE DERBY..I believe

the night scurlogue  champ run at white city there was 23 books got £40k on

I was a regular at White City and can only remember SC running there once.

when i went dog racing in the sixties,there  were at least half dozen maybe more bookmakers on 2nd bend also all other bends and both straights at wimbledon and it was in decline then,more bookmakers at the bridge on a thursday afternoon than what you say will be at wimbledon on final night the game at least in london is finished.

I can remember at least 12 bookmakers at..........Southall

"SatelliteFlight"................The first time that I went to Shelbourne in the late 1970s, there were 38 bookmakers standing.......I counted them out of curiosity.

Im afraid i wasn't born Mr. Memory so i'll have to take your word on that

mr memory how many at the white city

"Mad dog".........It depends upon the date.
When I first attended on Boxing Day 1952, there would be between 80 to a 100........maybe more.
There were three rings...the Cheap Side which extende from the second to third bends,the Main Ring (Entrance 12/6d) & a Middle Ring which was split in two halves either side of the Main Ring (just like Wembley)

There were four bookmakers in the Main Ring........Phil Earl, Manny King, Hector Macdonald & Ted Craze.

By the 1970s, the numbers had shrunk.....John White, Tom Alsop (Stanley) had entered & I believe that Sid Hales took over Hectors pitch as he had been representing him for a few years.

By the time that White City closed, I would imagine that there would be just over 40 there.........including Tony Morris, a late entry.

Andrew in Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 07
Replies: 823 05 Jun 11 20:11   
I was a regular at White City and can only remember SC running there once.

he ran about 2 weeks after the last derby to be run there .it was his 1 race ngrc .i think the place was full of flapping boys .he had one of e gaskins bitch to beat b w gala smomething .but i took him for a trial he shell a nail .only ken would have run him .both dog and ken where one off s july 84 ish

Mr Memory- You mentioned John White in the 70s, would that be the present John White's father. The reason I am interested is that my father clerked for him at White City in the 50s.

"sparrow"..........Yes, he was Johns father. I believe that his brother was the "top man" in the Main Ring.

Mr Memory- I only knew one brother, called Siddy who my father also clerked for at Stamford Bridge.

hard to explain to someone who has not been to the city ,how great it actually was ,don has done its best over the years closing half the stadium has not helped ....

40,000+ crowd, the practice "Derby Roar" that built-up in the races before the main event until you reached the final itself.  The huge cheers that greeted the Finalists as they are introduced to the packed crowd.  The parade of the Finalists, the electric atmosophere of expectation building and building whilst the Greyhounds approached the starting traps, the starter deliberately slowing the parade down as they neared the start, nobody absolutely nobody sitting down for the final, the hairs on the back of your neck standing bolt upright, a tingling sensation that flowed over you whilst awaiting the single ring of the bell to signal the start of The Race and the roar beginning and reaching fever pitch long before the hare had reached the traps and "The Off".  30 seconds of an unrelenting cacophany of noise.

Dramatically overstated, no.  I attended every Derby Final from 1969, (Sand Star), to the last one in 1984, (Whisper Whishes), and I can assure there is absolutely no exaggeration to the above.  I wouldn't have missed one second of any of them.  Wimbledon doesn't, never has done and never will compare to The GREAT White City.

I'd rather there were none! All the serious punters have "the machine" on their phones. It would be better for the sport if we had an on-course tote monopoly, preferably a low margin one.

"TheMadGhost......You overlooked the military band marching & countermarching under the spotlights.

the madghost

40,000+ crowd, the practice "Derby Roar" that built-up in the races before the main event until you reached the final itself.  The huge cheers that greeted the Finalists as they are introduced to the packed crowd.  The parade of the Finalists, the electric atmosophere of expectation building and building whilst the Greyhounds approached the starting traps, the starter deliberately slowing the parade down as they neared the start, nobody absolutely nobody sitting down for the final, the hairs on the back of your neck standing bolt upright, a tingling sensation that flowed over you whilst awaiting the single ring of the bell to signal the start of The Race and the roar beginning and reaching fever pitch long before the hare had reached the traps and "The Off".  30 seconds of an unrelenting cacophany of noise.

Dramatically overstated, no.  I attended every Derby Final from 1969, (Sand Star), to the last one in 1984, (Whisper Whishes), and I can assure there is absolutely no exaggeration to the above.  I wouldn't have missed one second of any of them.  Wimbledon doesn't, never has done and never will compare to The GREAT White City.

----------

i never went to white city - before my time. the way u have written about it, it sounds amazing and i think we all owe the GRA a big thank you for facking the sport up for us.

Mr Memory: Must have missed them, too busy studying the form, having and watching great greyhound racing.

It was so buzzing there.. I think the Lights.. Grass.. massive crowd.. bundles of bookies.. classy dogs.. made it so special.. plus there seemed much more money about in those days, everyone had there little moves for getting a bit extra... but the technology these days as put paid to all the moves people had.....!

But we now have Empty tracks.. no tracks.. everyone is Potless.. low grade racing is a fact of life.. Great thing this Progress Lark !!!!

BELFAST TRACKS DUNMORE & CELTIC

HAD AT LEAST 80 BOOKMAKERS STANDING

PER MEETING GOING BACK TO 40s 50s 60s

AND ALL DOING A BRISK TRADE.

clapton...you are spot on.....one factor in the sports now rapid demise is the end of "cash" in the economy. Noone gets paid in it anymore and the
fact is that the bit "spare" people had was for betting and buying dogs. Theres a lot more competition for the leisure pound now and sadly the dogs is being run into the ground by stadia owners who have no interest in anything other than their personalised number plates and 100 grand a year salaries.....

Sparrow,Billy White was on top at White City,as Mr.Memory said.Harry White who made a book at the points and the races was another brother.

"sparrow".............Paul Green has put a photograph on the internet of John White betting at the Races on the James Ford joint.

The clerk is wearing glasses & has a full head of dark hair....could this be your Father?

Bang right clapton, `Great Thing This Progress Lark`.. The powers in Greyhound racing could not have made a better job in ruining the game if they Tried ! And Governments past and present have also made a great job in `Nailing everyone to the floor`..with nobody having a move and not being able to get any Cash !

Poxy Technology is killing everything.

Mr Memory - I will have a look, although I think he only worked for John at White City.

It's surprising to see Greyhound racing descend so much in popularity, while sports like darts thrive.

Mr Memory- Where might I find this picture?

John had a a few of the great clerks working for him...Ronnie Richards,George Gunn and a guy called Basil ...add in Nicky Newton to that list...saw young John at Goodwood a few weeks ago.....he looked really well and fit...and his cousin Harry a few weeks before...ditto...

The bookmakers betting at White City when it closed, here goes main ring right to left. Joe Norris rep by Philly Herring Ted Craze, John White Stanley Rep by Tom Allsop Sam Earl rep by Phil Earl. Gap Pat Whitmarsh, Alper, Tony Morris, Sid Hales rep Ronnie Hales and John Power mostly rep by Tom Jenkins.Cheap side right to left Alby Parsons think the name of the firm was I cant remember was it Sammy Davis Sid Fry rep by Horace Simmons Joe Clark and Chas Raymond. When i first went to White City Joe Bennett was also in that bay Gap Then Alf Nathan, Harold Crockford Morry Pincus was also in that bay i think. Gap Steve Griffen, Terry and son, Walter Prince Bubbles was in the last bay with Young Harry and another bookmaker whos name escapes me.

Southwark Star:  Thed name Josh Day seems to ring a bell with me

WAG SHAW SEEMS TO RING A BELL.

Mr.Memory
    The clerk in the picture of Johnny White betting on Fordys tools was Plum.

Mad Ghost
     There was a Len Day bet at Harringay but that was over sixty years ago.
Sparrow,Izzy Farr,who used to do a card for Micheal Tabor at White City clerked for Johnny White at one time.A very nice man,Johnny Lyons at another time.Rocky clerked for old Johnny White as a boy.Needless clerked for him on odd occasions.I picked the book up and clerked one night when something happened to the light and dark but he was one of the few I ever worked for although I could tic tac and clerk,my father being a bookmaker I never worked for bookies.

whitmarsh

you are right about len day he also had a few betting shops around north london notably the one in fonthill road which mecca bookmakers/nagles bought off him.

it would be nice if tom jenkins came on and told us some stories about his time as that would be very good reading

Whitmarsh- My father,who clerked for Johnny White at White City in the 1950s was called Izzy Samuels, do you by any chance recall him?
He also clerked for many others in his time such as the Hogan brothers Johnny and Patsy. I remember you telling me on the White City thread about the Hogan's.

Sparrow,I cant say I recall your father but I may have known him by sight.I remember Chick Bloom along with the Hogans he was with them the day Geoff Lewis rode a treble and they done a nice bit of money.John and Patsy screamed the place down and Chick never went with them any more.

Whitmarsh- Thank you for your reply. Another person who worked for Johnny White on that firm was a floor man called Charlie Burton, who I remembered as a chain smoker who would light one cigarette with the end of the previous one!

Sparrow,Youre right Charlie was always smoking last I knew after he worked for Siddy White who bet as Sid Terry was that he got a new flat off of Tottenham Court Rd.I dont know what become of him.

Great days and thread remembered.

Great thread Sparrow  , I would say there was still 50 books
standing 70s - 80 s ? What you reckon

Derby night that is

Case.......I think Mr Memory had it right in his posting.



Mr. Memory 06 Jun 11 12:16 
"Mad dog".........It depends upon the date.
When I first attended on Boxing Day 1952, there would be between 80 to a 100........maybe more.
There were three rings...the Cheap Side which extende from the second to third bends,the Main Ring (Entrance 12/6d) & a Middle Ring which was split in two halves either side of the Main Ring (just like Wembley)

There were four bookmakers in the Main Ring........Phil Earl, Manny King, Hector Macdonald & Ted Craze.

By the 1970s, the numbers had shrunk.....John White, Tom Alsop (Stanley) had entered & I believe that Sid Hales took over Hectors pitch as he had been representing him for a few years.

By the time that White City closed, I would imagine that there would be just over 40 there.........including Tony Morris, a late entry.

Ah I notice he didn't mention Derby night but surely in the 50s a 100+ and not many less in the 60s either.

did berty battles make a book there pls let me know

you can not call alper a book maker a punter wanted 60 on a 2/1 . said no alper dad said to him take it you w'''''''''''''''''k

Alper haha! Yes always looked terrified when anyone approached him. Amazing thing was he let me have 20 x £50 Sullane Princess in the 1986 Oaks final (terrible
aftertiming I know !) Paid out with good grace. It was generally 16s so can only assume he had other liabilities.

lol did he go to the hospial devil

Seemed to take it all quite well...had it all ready in crisp 50s IIRC. Like I said maybe he had a position on it. I knew the Peter Payne kennel quite well at the time and
that he could get one ready. Shot out made all and won by 4 lengths.

Harringay was my first intro to dog racing. The trumpet/bugle music 5 minutes before every race, the busy ring. Think it was the bookie DYER who had chalk on his lips ?

come on pls tell us ur storys as life is going by .there are not to meny of us left