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Clapton,It was that Dover Castle.
Avontuur,Marvellous people,they dont make them like that nowadays. |
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whitmarsh.. the Dover Castle is no more, its some sort of low grade hotel these days, in fact as you probably know the east end was full of great pubs, but now there are hardly any, do you come from that area ?
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Does anybody remember Hughie the scotsman who used to get lagging every day at the races.
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That would be Hughie Gallagher,sadly passed away.He always got on Tigers coach to Newmarket at Liverpool St.One day at Sandown he was working selling tips in the car park and on my way in he gave me 50 pound to put on the first jolly.I bet a 50/40on for him and expected him to come in and start celebrating in the bar.However,by the third race.no sign of Hughie.I went out to the car park thinking he couldnt have a jib but he wasnt about.Next day I was told a coach had accidentally reversed over him and he had been taken to Kingston Hospital.I went there the following day with his readies but he had been transferred to London Hospital.I did eventually locate him,he had over 50 pins put in his legs but miraculously he recovered.The last time Isaw him was in Redchurch St.He told me Annie,his wife had died but he seemed like hed given up on life,no interest in the races or anything.
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With reference to the post of sixteenth of March about Charlie Winston,father of actor Ray, clerking for Bobby Mack.Jimmy Kensit,father of actress Patsy Kensit,also clerked for Bobby Mack.
Whitmarsh,would you know what become of Woody and his son?I couldnt start my car after Windsor monday night meeting and Woody, the tools and boxes man for the bookies kindly dropped me at Shepherds Bush.I remember he told me he lived in Redchurch St. Bethnal Green,he was a real gentleman. |
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Bobby was a doyen of the southern silver ring, never happier than when pulling one over one of his less "able" colleagues. Was he not tic-tac Johnny's brother? Thanks for reviving this thread, full of memories and interest from the halcyon days of the game, when personalities abounded.
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Wood Lane,
Woody,Bill Griffiths,died six years ago.Bill was a good standard fly weight boxer in his youth.After his father died the new people running the betting rings banned the wooden boxes that the bookmakers and tic tacs used.Mick,the son,turned the game up and moved to Kent,Maidstone way.He was an Arsenal fanatic ,went everywhere to watch them,when they beat Liverpoolup there to win the league on a friday night he turned up at Kempton on the saturday with his face painted red and white. |
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Expat,Yes Bobby was Johnnys younger brother,pleased to say still alive and well.
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Thanks Whitmarsh, good to hear, I liked Bobby. A lot of characters in the silver in those days. Always remember**Roberts who always seemed to bring his breakfast to the races with him; usually down the front of his shirt, with whovever was his current "driver" complaining about him! There is not the likes of these, seen any more, whether it is a good thing or not, and that's subjective. They gave the whole atmosphere character though. The allocation of the pitches was always a spectacle, it was like following the Pied Piper of Hamelin to get the "best" pitches, with often Bobby to the fore! Anyway work for me to-morrow, am in the middle of 2 weeks in a country that doesn't celebrate Easter until two weeks time!
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Expat**Roberts would lay a very good bet for the silver ring at the time.He worked a paper pitch over Dulwich when he wasnt racing.One day he complained he couldnt lay any "rags" so Teddy Waltham quipped"No because your wearing them"People at that time always seemed to get a pound better than now.Dominic Sabini had a paper pitch outside Holborn tube and Sam the Barber outside Chancery Lane when they wasnt racing or dogs.
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Having mentioned racecourse tipsters Darbo Hicks and Natie Yardleys,I feel Lofty and Boy Dean deserve a mention.Lofty,as his name would suggest,was a six footer.After the war he would walk into the winners enclosure with the winners of the big handicaps and even the odd classic.At times he would actually be holding the bridle the other side of the lad.When his picture used to appear in the Life or the Chronicle he would write in to the picture library and buy the enlargement of the picture.He would then stick them on to thick cardboard and take abouta dozento the races and lay them on the floor in front of the grandstand.By the time Lofty finished working the racecourses some of these photos must have been 40 years old.He was an impressive figure standing on a wooden crate and would soon have a crowd round telling them of the classic winners he had been attached to and the trainers he knew.When he got a big enough crowd around him he started selling his tips in envelopes.
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Lofty worked from just after the war till the mid eighties a t all the big meetings.
Boy Dean,real name Ruby Dean,was from the East End and made a living tipping horses for years.One Bank Holiday mondayhe got a lift with us in the car to Fakenham.List Ginger was drivingand we picked him up outside The George pub on the corner of Jubilee St.opposite the catholic chuch.He was dressed up in a top hat and tails with a brief case.Ginger said"You know its Fakenham and not Royal Ascot were going"Boy Dean replied"Ill get a days work off the farmers up there,you wait and see"Well he must have got a very good days work because when we dropped him off he threw a fiver at List Ginger,which was a lot of money at the time,saying "bit of petrol money for you Ginger"He was a good worker. |
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Whitmarsh
Thank you for the information on Woody, sad to hear of his demise; I am not surprised he was an athlete in his youth, he was small but was very sinewy, as was Groucho as you mentioned earlier, and also vey strong. Woody also without question did me a favour once, and his son was mad keen on fast cars as well as Arsenal. Remember the boxes fondly, it became the land of Kenny Wager if you went a little further west! I think that the RP should curtail Mr Birch's "memories" column, and I would like to nominate you and Mr Memory, two of our elder but very eloquent contributors to write some memories instead. True memories and not so self-centered, but about other characters that have abounded in the game during your living memories. It would be far more interesting than his repetive personal punts! Guest contributors! |
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Re Lofty did he have a large red nose seem to remember him at many tracks saying he had worked for xyz stables etc. and I do remember those photos
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Earlier posts speculated on the age of**Macdonald. I would imagine that his Christian name was derived from Major General**Macdonald who was one of the heroic figures in the Boer War. Naming children after popular figures & popstars still goes on.
This would place Hectors year of birth at 1900/01. Last week I came across a Bank Statement showing a payment of £80.00. It was dated July 1996. |
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Lofty had a Courage Best nose,he enjoyed a pint of bitter.
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Did he sometimes give away books with his tips...............after Wembley dogs & in the dark.
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Mr.Memory,Re Lofty I couldnt say as I only went to Wembley a handful of times.Youve done some detective work on**and I would make you right regarding dates.I remember when he started at Stamford Bridge from what Tough House told me and he died a year or so before they allowed the buying and selling of racecourse bookmakers pitches in late 1998**was a bad loser be it making a book or anything else.Little Lesley,who clerked for him at White City,was sacked after he beat him at darts and his"minder",Waggy Wakefield,was sacked when he beat**at cards.Bill Stratton,who was the senior rep for Wm.Hill on the rails after the war,drank with him in the Wood Green Con club beat him at golf one day and**didnt speak to him for a year.
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a fantastic read
i have worked at the races for 20 years now and the dogs a lot longer and know and remember a lot of the people mentioned in this thread, also a lot of older names that i only heard about from some of the older people. brings back some great memories. one of my favourite stories (not mentioned on here) is when stuttery roy that used to work for john white bet a 3 ponies on a dog in a photo finish. he said to me " as i called a 3 ponies on the result was announced the wrong way for me. it was the only time in my life i didn't fkn st st st st stutter". sadly there are not too many characters left on course now. when you walked on to a racecourse a dog track there was a always a story from the previous mettings. |
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After a funeral a few years ago we went back to a hotel near Enfield.An old womancame up to us and said she heard us talking about racing and that her father was**Macdonald.It turned out she was his only child,Thelma and that she now lived in the hotel.She owned some good dogs at White City and also a few horses.Ican remember Hang On Elvis,trained by Tom Masson, another I think was called Colonel Parker.She must have been an Elvis fan.She had never married and she seemed a lonely person for all her money.
Whitmarsh,what about Prince Monolulu,did you know him? |
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Wood Lane.....Very colourful character Monolulu with feathers and head dress he used to shout....White man for pluck....Black man for luck...The bees make the honey....The bookies make the money
I GOTTA HORSE...I GOTTA HORSE. I didnt know him though.Hectors daughter did own dogsat White City years ago and she used to always sit upstairs.When she got an admirer or two**put the block on her going dog racing and owning dogs.Harry Pack,who had a pub at Muswell Hill and always went to Ally Pally,told me three times a week**would walk from his head office in Wood Green to the pub in Muswell Hill,have one drink then play 18 holes of golf and then walk back to the office to do the days business up before going on to make a book at the dogs in the evening.I believe he put a lot of money into Muswell Hill golf club. |
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wood lane
i remember rocky telling me the same story about**macdonalds daughter. |
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it's just come to me.....was it johnny mack's funeral?
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Hello Tel,it wasn`t Johnny Mack`s got an idea it was Sonny Woolgar`s at the South Lodge hotel at**fosters.
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It was Roy Woolgars funeral.His father ,Sonny,used to bring dogs over from Ireland to sell at White City.Sonny also used to be an "away" bookmaker on the southern racecourses.
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great read and many thanks. family been making a book on-course since 1925 so have heard of and have the pleasure of knowing many of these characters !! many great stuttering stories when rossco (used bet place only at races and outside @ stow) worked for my grandad. d d di di dic dick you've missed it as he always drove past slindon sign post on way to fontwell...
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my memory is certainly failing, it may not even have been rocky that told me, it may have been an away bookmaker.
hitforbrains you obviously know who i am, next time you see me say hello. littleandoften you know how much fun we used to have at the races and dogs. we often end up falling about laughing now when we just remember some of the stories. great days, all with no garnish. |
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Hand of Gog,Very funny story about Roy Curtis I knew him very well.Roys dad had a flower pitch and when Roy was a young boy he used to make him stand the other side of the road and tic tac to him to teach him the show.Roy worked for Jimmy Gent,who was a director of Crystal Palace F.C,for many years at Catford When he died about twety five years ago Roy went with Young Johnny White at the races and Wimbledon.Roy always had a pint in The Ram,in Catford Broadway,before racing.During the war they put him down the mines under the North Sea and Roy was always sympathetic to the miners cause during the strikes.I remember him saying to Frankie Cohen one night at Catford"How much coal been dug here tonight?"
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there's not many characters left now whitmarsh, roy was one of the last to sadly leave us.
another funny story, told to me by bobby locke. also sadly no longer with us. one day at sandown, a rogue was hanging about the ring for a few races, making himself look busy. during the betting for the fourth race, he went to a bookmaker at the bottom left hand corner of the ring and called a bet. he said to the bookmaker he was with a firm betting top right of the ring and for confirmation, when he went to return the bet the bookmaker would wave to him. he then went to the bookie at top right and called a bet. he said he was with the bookie at bottom left and if he waved to him it would confirm this. so the two bookies were waving to each other for confirmation. both horses got beat and the rogue was obviously no where to be seen. |
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Expat
Youre right about woodys boy,Mick,being mad on fast cars.His dad bought him a new car for his 18th birthday and he saw me coming out of Musk,the butcher in Newmaket, one morning with the sausages.Mick stopped and gave me a lift,we got to the Rowley Mile doing a track record.Kenny Wager is still about down the West Country.He is still making a book outside and supplies the till rolls for the printers.Kenny was a jack of all trades,bookmaker,greengrocer,an agent for Portsea the printers,boxes,Bristol docker and candle stick maker. |
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Whitmarsh; a new car for his 18th birthday; it must have been nearly 30 years ago, I am sure. tempus fugit! Kenny as you say had, and probably as you say still does, a finger in a lot of things; always seemed very jovial anyway!
Personalities/characters, well going back about 40 years ago (not as long as you or Mr Memory), "Sid Kiki" was the main book at Slough. His board was in the name of Nat Merkado. He had this excellent judge standing under the old wooden restaurant, passing his opinion on the photo finishes, and betting on many. I used to go round the cheap ring and walk round directly opposite the line, it was a better view, especially when the participants were a railer and a wide runner split by the width of the track! I had an accomplice, an elderly chap who used to receive my signal, and place some cash on the outcome. We were I believe 100% successful, but only to moderate stakes. They knew he could not judge the finish himself from where he stood, and after a few successes they saw me talking to him. I was approached and congratulated on the set up, but that they did not want to take any more photo bets from us, we had won fairly."Nat" I presume thought it had been done well, and he gave me £5 for initiative, and said I could give it back to him when I backed a photo finish bet with his neighbour "Curlé and Dave". "I know I'll never get it back" he said, the xxxxxxx's got no bottle to lay one! |
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ttt for the people who requested it on the other thread
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Thank you "checkboxes"
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Thanks for that Checkboxes, is a great thread.
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What an absolutely great thread.. a marvellous read !!
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What an absolutely great thread.. a marvellous read !!
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Just read it again. What poigniant memories
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fantastic thread, well done to all.
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what a superb sport greyhound racing must have been in the pre and post war years.
people always say that progress is a wonderful thing, when it comes to dog racing i have to say i very much doubt that. |
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What a good read..........................my thanks to the original poster.
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