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CASHINVEST
26 May 16 23:22
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Replies: 241
By:
Latalomne
When: 27 May 16 08:31
Betfair Exchange advert just sighted on Sky Sports 1 during the Super Rugby!  Surprised
By:
tom2908
When: 27 May 16 11:22
Yep this is the worst week i have ever known for horse racing, unless it is a big meeting its not worth turning my computer on
By:
PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH
When: 27 May 16 12:59
Cry
By:
Coachbuster
When: 28 May 16 10:15
wondering if we are in the grip of some recession , the pubs seem empty as well  citing lack of funds . 

Belts tightening
By:
big aitch
When: 28 May 16 12:55
are the purple ones doing much?
By:
TheVis
When: 28 May 16 13:22
purple have never done much
By:
CONER
When: 28 May 16 15:46
PC TAX KILLING THE SITE,Was bound to happen.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 28 May 16 16:42
Coner correct. Feels like I've been treading water this year but had a few wins and am already back paying pc. Laying out of some outright bets and putting them on elsewhere instead now.
By:
fixed
When: 28 May 16 17:00
8th year in a row now exchange has "died because of pc"

i am sure there is nothing that can stop you guys from using this convenient excuse well into the 2020s.....
By:
bingo bongo
When: 28 May 16 17:20
An excuse for what? Liquidity is down, I wouldn't say pc is the only reason but for a lot of existing customers it is one of the main ones.
By:
fixed
When: 28 May 16 17:42
liquidity isn't even down, yet here "a lot of existing customers" (ca. 0,001% of them that is) manage to identify not one but multiple "main reasons" for something that isn't


it's comically bad. and it certainly won't stop
By:
bingo bongo
When: 28 May 16 17:47
Taken from the betangel forum
pre off

Horse Racing -4% - £10.31bn vs. £9.88bn
Soccer -27% - £5.73bn vs. £4.16bn
Tennis -31% - £1.36bn vs. £0.94bn
Greyhound Racing -10% - £0.72bn vs. £0.65bn
Cricket +57% - £0.37bn vs. £0.58bn
Basketball -48% - £0.22bn vs. £0.11bn
American Football -2% - £0.1bn vs. £0.09bn
Golf -14% - £0.09bn vs. £0.08bn
Australian Rules -39% - £0.07bn vs. £0.04bn

inplay

Soccer -13% - £13.73bn vs. £11.98bn
Tennis -7% - £9.94bn vs. £9.24bn
Cricket 73% - £5.17bn vs. £8.95bn
Horse Racing -5% - £2.63bn vs. £2.49bn
Basketball -16% - £0.7bn vs. £0.59bn
Golf -1% - £0.25bn vs. £0.25bn
Darts -11% - £0.17bn vs. £0.15bn
Snooker -25% - £0.17bn vs. £0.13bn
American Football -8% - £0.15bn vs. £0.14bn
By:
bingo bongo
When: 28 May 16 17:49
Liquidity down in every sport bar cricket, yet some say liquidity isn't down!
By:
pablo-fanque
When: 28 May 16 18:45
BB , what dates are they comparing the data too  ?
By:
siwaadupa
When: 28 May 16 22:01
They exactly now whats happening. As long they are going to be happy from sportsbook profits, they wont change anything. Only ugly people remain here, people who cant have other work in real world are here yet. Smarter and normal people have gone. But hey! They just had an arguments for the first time since merger a week ago. Some of them were protesting because some of them received to small pay rise from 400k to 475k per head in board a year is not enough. Poor traders figting for every pounds vs rich board members earning 500 000 pa. Its them against us. Breon thinks that cash race with unreachable targets bring liquidity hereWinkWinkWink
By:
siwaadupa
When: 28 May 16 22:12
https://www.paddypowerbetfair.com/~/media/Files/P/Paddy-Power-Betfair/documents/trading-update-2016.pdf

In their trading update word "sportsbook" was cited 13 times, "exchange"2 times - Its clear where their focus is. We are sportsbook, and we will be sportsbook forever now.
By:
pxb
When: 28 May 16 22:23
Those numbers show trading volume, not liquidity. Trading volume and liquidity usually move in opposite directions.

I do see decreased liquidity in some cricket markets, resulting from increased trading volume.

I also see decreased trading volume and increased liquidity in AFL, to the point it's not worth the bother.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 29 May 16 01:52
Whilst higher volume might not necessarily mean higher liquidity (although I think so generally), I'm sure they don't move in opposite directions.
By:
siwaadupa
When: 29 May 16 10:23
The high vloumes bets would have brought liquidity to the market on one condition: if those bets were taken by "traders, punters"(they would have tried try to sell bets later on) but those bet are taken by "betfair" who are offsetting their P/L they have on sportsbook for the partciluar game. Bigger volumes does not mean bigger liquidity. Liquidity is when we have constant flow, when someone is buying selling bets regularly.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 29 May 16 10:53
There maybe some smaller markets/sports where increased liquidity leads to fewer obvious misprices, and those are the only prices punters on bf are interested in, not surprising with the pc to contend with.
However the vast majority of the volume comes from the main markets so I don't see this as an argument for lower volume being good for bf or customers, if enough punters are interested then liquidity = volume and vice versa.
By:
siwaadupa
When: 29 May 16 11:13
There's is Chinav Japan volleyball game now. % years ago, olympic qulafication game I would have been able to make a profit of 50-100 pounds per game. Now...
86gb after 2 sets are mathed on whole market!- That's what lack of liquidity is. Thats how betfair changed.
By:
Coachbuster
When: 29 May 16 14:22
higher volumes - fewer people . Seems quite straight forward and logical to me

is the higher volume simply BF laying off their sportsbook bets ? - surely so ,and is an automatic process
By:
bingo bongo
When: 29 May 16 15:23
Coachbuster, the volumes have gone down. Therefore you think more people are using the exchange recently? I don't get how you've made that link and it isn't what I've noticed.
By:
Coachbuster
When: 29 May 16 15:28
what pxb says Bongo
By:
Coachbuster
When: 29 May 16 15:30
I believe fewer people are using the exchange but more using SB and other bookies ,but maybe more bookies are using BF  to lay off their increased  risk (maybe)
By:
Coachbuster
When: 29 May 16 15:37
aside from the PC etc  ,you have to bear in mind that BF is still a new  product and the sharp minds have given it a go and have moved on - a lot of those sharp minds eneded up as net LOSERS ,but sharp minds won't keep losing ,and you won't get a new sharp mind from someone who isn't sharp to start with   .

The turnover of  people  being born won't keep pace and many countries have closed the doors  anyway .You need another   300 million or so folk  to appear from no-where (in this country).

This isn't advanced science  ,just a fact of life
By:
pxb
When: 30 May 16 00:49
but maybe more bookies are using BF  to lay off their increased  risk (maybe)

I've seen that for years in cricket markets, but there are indications in other sports. I was looking to trade an AFL market at the weekend, which traded 18.5k, normally enough for me to make a profit. However, 18k came in one lump, which would have been a bookie laying off.

In Australia, Bookies advertise heavily, while there is zero advertising for the bf exchange, so it's not surprising we see a decline in small bet recreational punters on the exchange in Australian sports.
By:
FATMax
When: 30 May 16 07:46
Yes the continual decline is sickening,
the idea of betfair is great but without market depth it becomes pathetic.
Sadly most markets are now pathetic and a waste of time.
TAB fixed odds prices being better then betfair prices on Australian pacing
is the only way to go at the moment hence market depths in this area on betfair
are worse then pathetic is an example...
By:
siwaadupa
When: 30 May 16 10:55
Indeed.co.uk
Reed.co.uk
By:
DIE LINKE
When: 31 May 16 16:35
Would love to know where the horse racing backers/layers have disappeared to. Surely they won't have any accounts left with the bookies!
By:
tom2908
When: 31 May 16 16:40
So would i cause i would go with them, this is getting beyond a joke now, today was awful.
By:
DIE LINKE
When: 01 Jun 16 08:20
Racing is awful - in many cases double figure amounts are barely on offer in the three back and three lay windows
By:
Coachbuster
When: 01 Jun 16 10:42
don't think they have gone anywhere else, just think that many would be pro gamblers are only going to give  so much time and effort   until it becomes more viable to sell ice creams or clean windows for a living Laugh 

  seriously,investors expect a certain % yield .
By:
DIE LINKE
When: 01 Jun 16 16:46
I've improved my reading, work rate, French and sex life thanks to the the liquidity going mammaries up.
By:
DStyle
When: 01 Jun 16 19:39
the other people in the library, however, have started to complain.
By:
PeteTheBloke
When: 01 Jun 16 19:43
LaughLaughLaugh
By:
zooot
When: 03 Jun 16 11:10
Very efficient markets combined with the steady leak in the bucket of 5% + commission makes profits hard to achieve and accelerates losses if you don't have a strong edge.  Once the novelty of the interactive betting of an exchange wears off the reality of losses or very low earning per hour drive away sharper minds. Also the "we are gonna get rich" vibe has gone.  The tennis forum live match trading used to be full of dreamers who thought they had hit the pot of gold.  It was all comments about "huge green" "on board the Fed Express" etc. I used to skim read them in horror watching big amounts committed on some player close to match point who would go on to lose.  The death of that forum was symptomatic of the peak and decline of betfair's market appeal. 

The average punter who expects to lose goes elsewhere.  The exchange has evolved to a point where it has lost its competitive advantage in terms of perceived potential to win heaps.  Those who hang around are sober grinders, saddos and few who somehow have carved out a profitable niche.
By:
Cardinal Scott
When: 03 Jun 16 11:45
It's a general malaise all round, look at all the forums for trading software no one posts anything anymore, betfair blogs are dying,,,,the whole scene needs a shot in the arm.
By:
wit-ham
When: 03 Jun 16 12:21
As for someone like me always a small punter /mainly for fun

Don't bother now with horses unless big meeting
as everytime a bet showing etc 9.00 you submit and it go's to 8.8
in running it goes to 8.00 trying to get you to move to lower odds

Also in other markets you may get on at say 1.77 in cricket/tennis
as soon as you are matched1.78 pops up instantly without the delay

That is why small people like me are disappearing as no point wasting time
like we did years ago.
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