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Westender
30 Mar 16 13:59
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Date Joined: 04 Jan 06
| Topic/replies: 8,983 | Blogger: Westender's blog
Plenty of zero or low commission offers elsewhere with liquidity on the up.

Two months after the Paddy Power takeover, I write down the Betting Exchange improvements and the back of the postage stamp is still blank.

No communications with customers regarding the takeover, plans or anything really.

Did Paddy Power buy the Betfair Exchange to close it down or is there an unknown plan in place to improve liquidity?

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Replies: 98
By:
pmbets
When: 31 Mar 16 19:04
They need to pull their socks up very fast.Your good self and I and many others who help start the exchange from scratch need an explanation for the lack of liquidity.
I am a high rate PC payer and I like others received a letter from Betfair promising us all that everything will be fine and the tens of thousands that many of us pay in PC charge
will be used to attached new customers to the exchange.
We need some facts and figures from pp/betfair and I mean fast to explain what the millions of pounds they receive in PC charges is spent on.
I have paid just shy of £23,000 cash in PC charges to betfair/pp and I have seen zero improvement in liquidity.
Won't be long before the GC are knocking on pp/betfair door before too long if they don't pull their socks up.
By:
pmbets
When: 31 Mar 16 19:10
Another great posting of yours westender.Keep fighting for the exchange we all worked so hard for free for so long.
I did so much work for Betfair even working so hard to bring about the casino and slots in the very very early days.
My idea waas not to turn it into a bookies but to make the site a 24 hour operation so they would'nt have financial difficulties
if there was ever a foot and mouth scare again.
Betfair are so ungrateful for all the work I have done for them.
I have done so much and wanted nothing but liquidity on the exchange and never a pc charge.
By:
TheFear
When: 01 Apr 16 09:36
You sound like one of life's great philanthropists, pmbets.
By:
Ted Brogan
When: 05 Apr 16 13:47
www.egrmagazine.com/news/paddy_power_betfair_to_cull_650_uk_and_ireland_jobs
By:
howard
When: 05 Apr 16 16:10
the fearLaugh
By:
doridoru
When: 05 Apr 16 16:43
Well since the Paddy Power buy out, Betfair stays online!
By:
Westender
When: 06 Apr 16 18:35

Apr 5, 2016 -- 4:43PM, doridoru wrote:


Well since the Paddy Power buy out, Betfair stays online!


Any improvements made, any plans to increase liquidity or engage with the customer base?

By:
pmbets
When: 09 Apr 16 22:08
Remember westender all of the PC payers who are paying millions to Betfair/pp have an agreement with betfair/pp
that the money is spent on the exchange and increasing liquidity.I have handed over £23000 cash to these boyz running
the exchange and what do I see for my money?
Nothing?How long do we wait.Are the gamblibng commission monitoring the situation or just impotent?
By:
DStyle
When: 10 Apr 16 11:41
unfortunately pmbets there is no such agreement and there never has been.

it was used as a justification for the pc when it was first introduced at the 20% rate, insomuch as it cost betfair this much to acquire losing customers to the exchange, but there was no cast iron agreement or contract between payers and betfair.

Now if this were true, the rate would be variable based on the advertising and marketing spend, which as we know is nowhere near the 2009 levels.

what's more, it was very clear when the super-PC was introduced that betfair would spend the additional 20% to 40% on whatever they liked.

The PC was a horrible mistake, targeting a valid group of enemies whilst unleashing an unacceptable amount of friendly fire. A tiered commission rate based on number of matched bets per market, starting at 2% for 1 bet and going up to 50%, would have been better for everyone.

However, the real boon of the PC is not the money betfair take (nice as i'm sure this is). Through a stroke of immense serendipity, it's that it has made its most profitable customers the most eager to look for alternatives and made it impossible for competitors to organically acquire a balanced slice of the full exchange food chain.
By:
11kv
When: 10 Apr 16 17:16
Custards Creams on free vend
By:
pmbets
When: 13 Apr 16 00:06
expect the people who lose their jobs to spill the beans on here once they leave Betfair towers.
Will be very interesting.Maybe we can find who helped destroy the exchange and why.
By:
pxb
When: 14 Apr 16 02:55
Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

You'd be surprised how often companies buy businesses they don't understand and then kill them through ignorance. I was closely associated with 2 examples.

You only have to look at the saga of the awful new site, designed by people who clearly have no idea how the site is used.

I exclusively use an improved beta and the old site (still available to Australians). Now the beta is going to be switched off next week and it appears killed completely. Which means I will go back exclusively to the old site, until it is switched off at some point. At which point I'll probably jack the sports trading lark in, as alternatives either don't accept Australians, don't work for Australians, or are just too dodgy.

It was fun (and profitable) while it lasted.
By:
PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH
When: 18 Apr 16 20:17
problem was that traders on the site were winning / earning more than the betfair management, so some left and set up trading companies, whilst others stayed and brought in the draconian commission structures to alleviate that jealousy and so slowly killed of the betting exchange growth, hopefully the new management will realise that receiving 5% commission is more lucrative than a few percent of turnover on the sports book. Matchbook were 0% on the 20/20 world cup which was a breath of fresh and not paying premium charge felt like winning twice Cool
By:
YOMOMMA
When: 18 Apr 16 20:48
A fool and his money are soon parted.
By:
romfordiron
When: 24 Apr 16 14:00
Hallelujah. Just seen an advert for the Betfair exchange before the football on Sky. Still the same 'tap, tap, boom' nonsense, but they must have said the word 'exchange' 3 times. Would be great to see a proper advertising campaign for the exchange.
By:
YOMOMMA
When: 24 Apr 16 14:11
'tap, tap, boom' nonsense


This is not the work of a genius.
By:
spurs to buy big
When: 25 Apr 16 00:20
TAP Tap Boom is a sportsbook campaign "Tap Tap missed your price ..lower u price ...suspend.. there has been a goal ..bet unmatched"is  the exchange version
By:
razz
When: 26 Apr 16 13:56
^lol^

yeah i was very surprised when I saw an exchange advert the other day. not quite as surprised to see 3 idiot's who can't act for **** in the advert though.
By:
bigH
When: 26 Apr 16 22:25
PP have done feck all

Bookies nowadays are all just greedy colin hunts
By:
Westender
When: 26 Apr 16 23:53
Well said bigH Laugh
By:
jamesdean
When: 09 May 16 13:32
I've noticed over the weekend the main Betfair link, once typed into Google, takes me straight onto the exchange rather than the Sportsbook. Where the Exchange option used to be underneath the main link, the sportsbook option is now there.

I've also noticed a Betfair exchange advert on the tv recently. First one I've seen in a while...
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 10:37
Few guys on Twitter Sunday:

Question 1
Why is the Sunday Conference Play off match, Braintree v Grimsby live on BT Sports, in-play on the Sportsbook and every Bookmaker BUT NOT the Exchange?

Answer - we could not get a feed.

Question 2
Why is it in-play on the Betfair Sportsbook and every other Bookmaker if there is no feed?

Answer - we do not have a runningball feed and need to manage the markets manually.

Question 3
Why then do you not manage the markets manually for the Exchange along with the Sportsbook?

Answer - the Sportsbook resource levels are far greater than available for the Exchange.


So it is clear in the list of the top 100 priorities of Paddy Power - the old Betfair Exchange is number 999.

As others point out - buy to close looks the point of the takeover hoping the mug money will stay with Paddy Power.

There has certainly been no noticeable significant steps taken so far to revive the dying Exchange.
By:
TheFear
When: 10 May 16 11:07
http://www.drf.com/news/betfair-launch-new-jersey-exchange-wagering-site-tuesday
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 11:56
See they don't mention the huge Betfair Charges of 22.5% to 62.5% on winnings for consistent winners and the commission rate is 12% for New Jersey customers.

The above does appear as relevant as a prisoner on death row arguing about the last meal contents.

The huge Betfair Taxes 22.5% to 62.5% based on historic transactions years old needs addressed or the spiral of decline continues.

Full Timers leave + mugs diverted to bookmakers = liquidity fall and on it goes

[u]Botunfair[/u] is a more appropriate name nowadays and this place has been dropping quicker than a Tart's knickers since 2008.
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 11:57
http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2016/04/22/exchange-wagering-debut-new-jersey-may-10-hold-now-meadowlands/
By:
wolf3011
When: 10 May 16 12:26
Unless you have bots going 24/7 no legitimate "old school" gambler can beat a commission of upwards 22.5%. I'm not interested in programming software so instead of a legitimate peer vs peer gambling site we just have a competition of who has the better bot which takes away the entire premise that the exchange was set up for in the first place.
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 13:18
I totally agree with wolf Scared
By:
jamesdean
When: 10 May 16 13:22
I see you've totally dismissed my 13:32 post. So I'll copy and paste it just in case you missed it.
It's all good and well knocking them when they deserve it but it works two ways...

I've noticed over the weekend the main Betfair link, once typed into Google, takes me straight onto the exchange rather than the Sportsbook. Where the Exchange option used to be underneath the main link, the sportsbook option is now there.

I've also noticed a Betfair exchange advert on the tv recently. First one I've seen in a while...
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 14:10
The home page back to Sportsbook so the culprit working for Betfair probably fired. Cry

I watch a lot of sport but not noticed any new Betfair Adverts - will keep an eye on it.

The huge Betfair taxes issue based on ancient history needs addressed.

Old Customer makes £100 in 12 month period - could be charged 22.5% to 62.5% based on money made years ago.
New Customer makes £100 in 12 month period - charged 5%.

This has destroyed the Exchange and it will die as more full timers leave when they get pumped when reaching the limit for 42.50% to 62.5% charges.

A taxation charging system needs to be based on the PAYE system with the more charged on a sliding scale when people reach a certain level of profits per year.
By:
TheFear
When: 10 May 16 14:11
you could win 250k on here would be a selling point not a negative, westender.
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 14:23

May 10, 2016 -- 2:11PM, TheFear wrote:


you could win 250k on here would be a selling point not a negative, westender.


There is little chance of any new punter winning £250k on here now given the new climate as follows:

1. BOT v BOT accounts for 70% of the transactions.
2. There is now a sea of empty boxes due to liquidity collapse.
3. There are not enough crumbs to go around as Betfair Sportsbook has taken all the mug money and the BOTs eat the rest.

The reality is that the current CEO has strangled the Exchange of liquidity and it will die given the current trajectory of liquidity decline.

Since the Betfair takeover by Paddy Power. I have seen zero communications or actions by Paddy Power Mgt that will have any significant impact on reviving a dying Exchange.

The future in my opinion is not Paddy Power or Ladbrokes - neither meet the needs of  potential huge Exchange market.

When the next innovation appears - we will all be like a fly around a huge shyte and never be back here.

By:
TheFear
When: 10 May 16 14:38
I'm sure some shrewdies over there will win 250k in no time if there's any money to be won. I just thought you contradicted yourself because you said they don't mention the higher charges but then say no one will win that sort of money. I agree with many of your points though.
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 16:26
The odd few may prosper but very few (less than 0.05% of customers) will earn the minimum wage per hour spent on the old Betfair Exchange.

There used to be 5% to 10% so most people see the light and go back into employment/self employment together with spending their hard earned on other activities which actually benefit their lives.

Betfair cannot expect people to take all the risk, take a huge slice of their winnings before people decide to do other things.

Racing aside which I have no interest, liquidity has collapsed on here except for all sports except the cricket and large football events.

Two years from now - it will mirror purple with fewer markets and the same empty boxes.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 10 May 16 16:27
They have added a much improved live score system for cricket matches.
By:
Westender
When: 10 May 16 16:31
Betfair was once the leader on in-play betting with wide live video coverage of most sports.

Yes it cut that contract to the bone and fell way behind the bookmakers in live streaming and live scores etc.

This was all under the current Paddy Power CEO's watch
By:
wolf3011
When: 10 May 16 21:59
I'm not sure the exchange will ever die as there is always a new generation of deluded souls believing they can beat automated bots on the main markets.. most of us were one of them at some stage in the distant past. I had a mate saying he was back testing a "new method" he thought was unique and it was basically martingale betting doubling up  on laying teams odds on- all you can do is shake your head and laugh . No matter how many times you say it's a hopeless strategy there will always be people joining unaware they are betting against machines rather than people.
By:
YOMOMMA
When: 10 May 16 23:57
I think you all need to accept the exchange is what it is. It will never be heavily usable like it used to be where you could bet/turnover large volumes. The exchange is currently more a bookie as it's all seeded with jumping bots.
By:
Westender
When: 11 May 16 09:30
Think people have accepted long ago mate and just waiting for a new place to bet appearing.

The two main reasons for the Exchange dying is:

1. Premium Charges where winners are taxed a HUGE 22.5% to 62.5% of winnings based on ancient historic winnings.
2. The appointment of the current CEO on 1 Aug 2012 who's actions have destroyed the Exchange - a bookmaker only interested in the interests of a bookmaker.

Betfair take all the cake now and the BOTs are fed crumbs so that is why people leave.

The sea of empty boxes grows larger by the week and on it goes until BOT by BOT is switched off.
By:
pablo-fanque
When: 11 May 16 12:48
No matter how many times you say it's a hopeless strategy there will always be people joining unaware they are betting against machines rather than people

it's the odds that you bet at that is far more important rather than who is taking your bet ( bot or person )
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