Exchange+ discussion thread

Can't they keep the old site going alongside it?

Sure, let them allocate all their developers and new efforts to the new site. Let them devote more time and effort to mobile and sportsbook if that's management's priority.

But why go against their long-standing customers' wishes and pull something that most of them actually prefer?

That would be my preference too askari.

Alternatively, they should design a new stripped down interface for people who are essentially using the site professionally and are much more interested in speed and performance than anything superficial. Focussing particularly on how well it performs when it's open in multiple tabs simulataneously.

I've started a similar thread on the Cricket forum.

cool, I'll have a look and chuck in my two million drachmas worth

Seems like the old site has been off and on today. At the moment, there's no old site available for me, so I've had to be on the new site. Quite a quiet day, so not been heavily using it, but when I have, it's still awful. It's very sticky, even though it's a quiet day across the exchange - much worse than the old site used to get at busy times a few years ago. Anyone else experiencing this?

On a positive note, I'm pleased they've improved the settings so you can get rid of all the casino game rubbish etc.

I've had to play the new site today, and I absolutely hate it.
If Betfair have no regard for their customers wishes, I'll find somewhere else to bet.

"Australian markets will remain on the old site."

So that means they're not going rid of the old site at all then.

Spoke to someone at Betfair Towers today and he reckons the IT bods are well aware of the stickiness on the 'my markets' bit and are still developing that section. Fingers crossed they'll sort it before the football season starts, otherwise it'll be unusable at busy times. The interface seems much better to me now - I think I could get used to it after a while. The key thing is to get it running as quickly and smoothly as the old site, which still seems some way off.

I would read this thread and reply to it. but I can't because the scroll bar has disappeared!

No mention of Australian customers and non-Australian events. I still get the old site for all events. I recall bf's poker, casino, etc aren't allowed in Oz, which could be the reason.

R.I.P old site :(

i completely understand why they wanted to change what's under the hood and how and it works.

and someone needs to be kept busy developing new shiny front ends to keep them busy i suppose, but why oh why they haven't developed a skin which is exactly like the old site with exactly the same functionality, BEFORE SWITCHING OFF THE OLD SITE, is a mystery.

they managed it with the forum and that was having to work with a third party and a COTS forum solution.

I've been on the new site for ages but bizarrely today when I click an unmatched bet in my unmatched bets list it takes me to the market in the old site.  Hasn't done that since the new site was first up I don't think and certainly wasn't doing it yesterday.

They haven't changed what's under the hood. Had they changed the exchange functionality or how it worked, the old site wouldn't work. The changes are all cosmetic, navigational and fixing elementary design errors like too much dead space on the screen.

BTW, I agree with El Presidente, what us power users (to slip into tech jargon) need is a stripped down version that gets rid of all the stuff we don't need and just displays what the market is, current bets offered, and our bets offered and matched.

You're describing the various API software there.

Been off the site all day. Just come back, and for some reason it's forced me onto the old site again - heavy work must be underway on the new site.

After a few days of the new site, I'd almost forgotten how smoothly and quickly the old site runs. It must be at least 10 times quicker at loading a market. It was becoming a real chore flicking between markets on the new site - it got to the point that I was having to click refresh in the browser and after a chunky 4-5 second wait it'd load the market I wanted. It'd be impossible to trade efficiently at busy times if left as it was.

They have to sort it properly before pulling the plug on the old site!!!

Having said that, just tried to open the site in Mozilla rather than Chrome, and it's taken me to the new site without an option to go back to the old site. The whole thing is an absolute mess.

Well, the forum has a scroll bar today, which it didn't yesterday. But the sports menu doesn't have a scroll bar! So I can't even access the special bets. Even though I have matched bets on the "Next Prime Minister" market, which was saved to "My Markets" on the old site, I can't access the market!

Betfair, why didn't you get the new site to actually work before taking down the old site?

Absolutely ridiculous that they've had a couple of years or so to develop the new site since it was launched. It's only when they're in the process of shutting down the old site and forcing the serious, data heavy and time sensitive players onto the new site, that they realise it's still not fit for purpose outside of casual punting.

This is all during one of the quietest weeks of the year as well. God knows what it's going to be like at 2-3pm on a Saturday afternoon in the football season.

You're describing the various API software there.

I've used Geeks Toy quite a lot and Bet Angel a bit. Both suffer from the same (or similar) over complication that BF does.

All a trader does is buy and sell. The only trick is knowing what price to buy and sell at, and how much to buy and sell.

All I need to know is what others are offering to buy and sell at, what I am offering to buy and sell at, and my net position from what I have bought and sold to date.

And to scale to as many simultaneous markets as possible.

The only other feature I'd rate as 'must have' is a way to highlight when best prices have changed that stays highlighted until I see it and clear it, and no one does that satisfactorily.

All my current markets on a single scrolling screen would be great.* None of the API product developers seems to get what a volume trader does.

* I was in the SW biz for a long time and would have no problem describing exactly what would fulfil my requirements.

'Serious, data-heavy and time-sensitive players'--do they actually want these customers?

They want recreational custom losing to them and their incumbent layers, who are paying more than 20% winnings in comm. But do they want these incumbents undercut by nimble players, either with a better tissue frequently hitting the market for best price or taking a little out of price movements due to some technical skill trading? If these people are winning small- to medium-sized five-figure sums a year, does bf have any interest in catering for them at all?

I agree whole-heartedly with pxb.  I just need a basic site.  I've looked at a couple of APIs and just too much stuff on screen.  I'm surprised someone hasn't copied the old site. Would make a fortune.

Of course they need such players in the ecosystem - they provide liquidity, fill gaps in markets and provide better prices at both ends for both the average punter and trader. They also provide a good source of revenue through the PC.

Romford, I avoid the pc through having arbed off two multiples which won at straight bookmakers for about 60k. I'm a small player with no more than a 0.25% edge on turnover counting all money bet and haven't made anything like 60k on bf.

Having bet in about as much money as you can get on at the High St without having a sophisticated placing operation e.g. to win £1,000 per bet two or three times for good races for the books, and traded, arbed and taken positions on bf, I feel I have a good line on what the customer experience is like at bf. It's got a lot worse in the last 8-10 years--with the company getting back to you slower, less efficiently and less courteously.

I feel people like me are the canary in the coalmine--but that the mgt. don't care and think they can grow their way to stock market riches on the back of sportsbook and mobile. But with declining liquidity on all but major markets close to off times, I have the sense they're risking losing a lot of their winners, market makers and opinion players.

If you try to point out to the company that their offering is far worse, they become defensive and think they're doing well enough with a buoyant share price. Then a plausible competitor is going to come along.

long time no posting...but had to come out of retirement so to speak to say this new **** is exactly that.

the new site is crap

Betfair have sabotaged the old site for me again. They've made it slow and impossible to use. Last time they had that Loading please wait message stuck on the screen, this time it takes ages to adjust odds and submit a bet. Company is run by vermin.

what pisses me off is that this exchange+ waffle is merely a way of telling us that the old site is being closed down without admitting it and that this was so transparent that no one even felt the need to mention it on either side. that sort of short term pr bull (seemingly standard practice since well before the premium charge was introduced) serves no purpose other than to sully betfair's reputation.

Bf's symbol of the new site is a V-sign--the right way round, but one can only wonder whether someone in the company isn't giving the old users the finger. What a message that would be to send!

Well, finally I'm stuck with this thing, though I have the old site open in a coupleof legacy tabs.

Opening the same market in both, the contrast is stark.

One simple question which i would love to see someone from betfair try to address:

When I open the top australia batsman market in the old site, I can immediately see 11 runners in full, with no scrolling. Doing the same in the new site, I can see 7.

So what am I getting in return for that lost functionality? Because in terms of the interface I can't see anything at all. Unless you count nearly two inches of completely blank yellow space as functionality.

Two years and god knows how much money's worth of development, and all BF's you achieved is to make three legacy tabs the most precious things on my laptop.

Also out of retirement to post what a crock of poo this new site is.

1. announce that you're switching off old site in the future explaining why.
2. engage and incentivise experienced users to alpha and beta test new site, providing exclusive access.
3. roll out new site.
4. switch off old site.


would seemingly be the right approach.

instead

3. roll out new site, but make access to it optional. (obviously no experienced user is going to choose to use something new and broken over something that they are familiar with and works)

4. switch off old site.

2. get feedback from experienced site users about everything that it wrong with the new site now that they are finally forced to use it.

1. announce why you've switched off the old site.

Hello Lori.

Plus, DStyle, that explanation from the CTO is just a crock. There is absolutely no reason the "new backend platform" can't be skinned to look like the old interface.

Unless someone's going to tell me that the new API won't work without a big strip of empty yellow space at the top of the page?

i said that below vep.

of course you could have provided an old site skin which sat on top of the new API, and that should have been done before switching off the new site.

it's exactly what they did with the forum and they had third party software to worry about then as well.

i have been migrated today,everything seems more cluttered than neccessary to me with lots of things that are uneeded.i suppose this old dog will have to learn new tricks .i will get used to the new site but after 10 years plus it will take awhile.

listening to customers blah blah, better experience blah blah,  SHYTE

Why don't they open up some kind of forum where users can tell them exactly what's wrong with the new site and listen to them?

For horse racing, the screen is too small to accommodate the number of runners you're likely to need to see for a start, and you can't turn off the colours (so you can see your position more clearly) while keeping the rollout trainer, rider and form as you could in the old site.

A major loss of functionality, yet the technology officers don't seem to understand this....

*rollover connections and form

what a pile of crap.

lanza you bet on cricket, it doesn't even show any P+L on innings runs! Means it is impossible to trade in and out on. I told them about some of the bugs 3 years or so ago and they still aren't fixed.

I've never understood that one. I traded loads in the World Cup on the innings market and kept having strange positions that I wasn't entirely sure what I was going to win/lose.

in the words of Tyson fury, exchange+ has as much charisma as my underpants.

I find it shockingly bad. 

I'd imagine, not knowing your clear position instantly at any one time YOMAMMA would be a major problem for many.

It's just totally unusable at the moment imo.
Refresh not working properly, markets not loading, previous unmatched bets hidden when you place new one, logged out with no warning, too many buttons that if accidentally clicked take you off the market page, no coupons and I've only been on it a couple of days.
Good job I'm starting 'normal' work in a couple of weeks, because this would drive me nuts.

Looks like it's YOMOMMA's turn to be BF's favourite customer - P&L grid on Innings Runs today :)

Well, another bugbear for me would be when you adjust the price of a bet you have as 'take SP', in the old, functional site, you can enter the new bet and ask to take SP in one action. In the new site, you have to adjust the bet and re-submit asking for SP.

A major loss of functionality if you're trying to trade 6+ horses and don't have an API open.

curlywurly , did you use to be full time on here ?

if so , what made you look elsewhere for an income ?

Petraco
29 Jul 15 18:09
Joined: 10 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 949 | Blogger: Petraco's blog
The statement from the TCO doesn't make sense on any level.

The gist of his comments relate to the backend servers not being able to cope with the changes since it was created.  If this is the real situation then by all means change the backend servers, but design a front end that visually matches the old front end.  Same font, same colour, same position for buttons etc etc.

This way, if done properly, the users would never have noticed a difference, other than the improvement to their experience.

For me, I really don't care about the interface. I can get used to the new graphics and settings etc. I realise that branding has to change with current fashions. It's just the stickiness and slowness of the whole experience on the new site. It's a massive step back. At times, it's almost like the days of dial-up internet. It's just not possible to work on multiple markets as quickly as before. When the site is running well, it's taking me 2 seconds to load a market. When it's slow, it's taking over 5 seconds. I'm also having to refresh the browser sometimes for a market to even load at all. I've tried  Mozilla and Chrome, but both run the site as badly as each other. It's going to be impossible to trade dozens of markets on busy Saturdays.  SORT IT NOW BETFAIR!!

Can't get the 'order by matched date' function to work,
Quite important that...

and there's no bet detail either (for me at least)

Are you clicking activity then current bets, that takes you to the same screen it has always been before.

Trebor,
I was meaning on the actual market display screen to be honest rather than under the activity section,
though thanks for the suggestion.

Oh I see now, no it don't work on mine either

Seriously, after 2 years how is it possible that as well as looking terrible this thing still doesn't work? How can that possibly happen?

I'm trying to open the Superleague winners market; it just won't open, whatever I do. So moving on I'm trying to put offers up on tonight's challenge cup winning margin market; the bets simply will not place.

I mean, really. How can a company spend that long developing something that looks worse and doesn't even work - then force people on to it?

AGILE methodology + minimal feedback from experienced users.

i almost think this switching to the new site so abruptly and forum engagement may be a recognition of the latter and a way of addressing it.

one thing regarding navigation.

given that in play match odds are the most popular and liquid markets, i should be able to get to them as quickly as possible.

something which worked very well on the old site.

Old site:

Sport: -> relevant inplay coupon -> find match -> match odds

New Site:

Sport: -> edited highlights of in play matches (really, REALLY? whose stupid idea was this) -> scroll down to find tiny link to all matches at bottom of highlights -> navigate to new page with all matches -> click on match -> taken to event page with nearly all markets for event-> click on match odds to get to what i wanted to find.

and given that your inplay URLs contain a query string for what day of the week it is, you can't bookmark it either.

I can tolerate the new site but it is slower and less efficient than the old one. I can't help thinking that the primary basis for pushing everyone onto the new site is to try and get more people playing poker and exchanges games etc.

Hanlon's razor bb, hanlon's razor.

I had to look that up, but it made me laugh anyway - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Brilliant. 20 or so years in racing has made me a cynic though, rightly or wrongly!

The bet info and matched bets info seems to have been resolved.

Another issue though unfortunately - the 'what if' figure behaves very erratically at times giving misleading numbers, only seems to happen some of the time but again quite a key failing when compared to the relative reliability and solidity of the old site.

Have to say I am finding the Exchange to be completely w*nk. Surely Betfair must know it's a pile of slowly steaming dodo.

Can't see me betting anything other than peanuts on it in the future.

It really is still terrible for anyone who bets or trades on multiple markets and/or may have lots of bets in those markets. I could do everything I wanted quickly and efficiently on the old site. Now, I've had to order a new high speed workstation laptop in the hope that it'll run better on that. Every third party app I've tried isn't as good as the old site either, as I rarely need ladders etc.

The new site is also still full of bugs (such as the yellow band displaying the balance disappearing) and lacks useful little things such as the hyperlinks to the relevant markets in My Bets. It clunks and takes seconds to load a market with dozens or more runners. Sometimes it doesn't even load the market at all.

Complete and utter shambles that it's been up and running this long and is still so bad. I can't believe any heavy users of the site have had any input into its development at all. It might look modern and flashy, but it doesn't perform properly and there are faults in every little nook and cranny.

Rant over

Every third party app I've tried isn't as good as the old site either, as I rarely need ladders etc.

My third party app has actually got worse because of the new site; Betfair have taken away vital usability, which was on the old site but not the new site, and like you I'm struggling to do everything I want as quickly or efficiently as before.

you can safely say it's become an anti traders site

Makes you wonder why? Is it yet another trick to try more people on the sportsbook?

Personally, I can't really see that being correct. They wouldn't have spent so much time and effort in developing the new site if that was the case. They also wouldn't have kept the old site for so long. Furthermore, they'd be marginalising lots of PC payers, who surely contribute a significant sum to Betfair's coffers. I'm no IT expert at all, but I suspect that the new site is too advanced for its own good. It's the really data-heavy markets that perform the worst and many people aren't running computers that can cope. My current laptop runs fine normally, but when I try loading a a market with lots of bets or selections, you can hear the fan kick in and everything slows up.

you can safely say it's become an anti traders site

It has. The volume traders provide most of the liquidity at best prices, and I have to wonder what the logic behind reducing liquidity and worsening prices is?

If it is, as suggested, to steer punters to the sportsbook, then I can only say that it is a mind bogglingly bad decision.

@RomfordIron

"lacks useful little things such as the hyperlinks to the relevant markets in My Bet"

The blue top line of the My Bets entry (eg for my bets this afternoon '16:30 Ayr') is a hyperlink to the market

Cheers Longbridge. Hadn't spotted that. For me though, it's not as useful as the link in 'current bets', as it doesn't appear that you can sort by market (or even matched/unmatched). Would take me longer than just finding the relevant market on the site. Might have to start writing notes of which markets I've open positions on during busy days.

You know you can still get to the old-style Current Bets on the new site?

My Account -> My Bets -> Activity

(Though that's not perfect by a long way - in particular, the "sort by market" on the old-style My Bets pages has always only sort-of worked for me and it completely screws up the column formatting).

Yeah thanks. That's what I was originally saying though - this is the hyperlink that I've always used to check I've closed out all my positions. The hyperlink in the Activity section of My Bets works fine, but it's no longer working in the Current Bets section. Hopefully they'll sort this soon - can't be too hard to fix surely.

Romnfordiron you've lost me :(

How do you get to the hyperlinks that work and how do you get to the ones that don't?

Finally today my three legacy tabs showing the old site died from firefox memory leakage, and I've been forced 100% onto this utter shambles of a new site.

I just cannot believe how bad it is. It doesn't even bloody work. Markets won't even open. Markets that do open can't be added to favourites.

How can this state of affairs have been allowed to occur? How can a company spend two years developing something which doesn't do the basic things it used to, force users onto it against their repeatedly expressed wishes, and still have the people responsible in jobs?

Agree 100%.

Sorry, I wasn't particularly clear there Longbridge.

I've always used the hyperlinks in the 'Current Bets' section. These are the ones you can organise between matched and unmatched, along with sorting by date or by market. These links have always been really helpful for me, but no longer work on the new site.

The hyperlinks that currently work are the ones listed in My Bets, which can't be sorted like the ones in Current Bets.

Just tried that out. Bizarrely, clicking on the links in "current bets" opens the market in old Betfair(!) whereas clicking on the links in "my bets" uses the same tab to open the market in the new Betfair site.

Darlo, are you using Chrome? It just opens up a new window with the exchange's home page on it for me. It's always done that since I've been on the new site.

Yes. Chrome. Opens up in the initial Betfair exchange tab when I click on the "current bets" link, whereas opens up in the same tab from "my bets".

This is crap. I want to back 0-0s but the odds offered are rubbish. Is there no way I can put a bet on at the odds I think are realistic and see if anyone matches them?

@OnePercenter

Assuming (and that's quite an assumption on here these days) that you're not trolling and that's a serious question - then of course there's a way you can put a bet on at the odds you think are realistic and see if anyone matches them; that's pretty much key to how this place works.  Assuming (and this shouldn't be a huge assumption, but...) you're on the Exchange and not the Sportsbook - just put the odds you want it the betslip and place the bet - it'll go up as unmatched liquidity on the market for anyone to match if they like your price.

As long as you have saved a market from the old, functional site as a bookmark (ideally one which is still current, like the 2015/6 Premiership Winner), you can go to 'All Sports' on the sidebar and add new markets in the old format.

The site is unpleasantly sticky but not as bad (?) as the new front-end.

This morning I tried 3 times to view the Premiership relegation market by what one might consider the obvious method of using the menus on the left. All 3 attempts failed; twice I was left viewing a totally blank page, and the third attempt left me viewing an entirely different sport.

Unsurprisingly, I gave up.

Even more unsurprisingly, I give up....

Aug 11, 2015 -- 3:16PM, bettinghelp wrote:

This morning I tried 3 times to view the Premiership relegation market by what one might consider the obvious method of using the menus on the left. All 3 attempts failed; twice I was left viewing a totally blank page, and the third attempt left me viewing an entirely different sport. Unsurprisingly, I gave up.Even more unsurprisingly, I give up....

But everything works fine on the Betfair computers, so your complaints apparently don't count.

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this but a few times I've submitted a bet and at completion of the process it appears simply not to exist -
It isn't matched or unmatched and there's no record of it having been placed at all,
whilst not too big a big deal during a pre game market it's obviously pretty concerning that it's happening during an inplay market which can move at some speed.
If anyone else has had this maybe that could post here as it seems one of the more pressing issues on the new site.

Seem to have currently lost the 'order by matched date' function again.

bets not appearing and then suddenly appearing 10 secs later,
cancel bets not working at times...

not going too well the new site at the moment I'm afraid

Noticed an annoying thing today when placing bets...

Used to be that when I first click in the market to place a bet, the selection would appear in the "Place Bets" tab on the right hand side with the odds already highlighted. That way, I would just need to type in the odds I want, hit tab, type the amount, hit enter, job done.

But today, the odds are not highlighted and instead the cursor just appears before the odds. So unless I want to use the up/down pointers to change odds, I actually have to highlight the odds myself before I can change them. Either way, it's slow and inconvenient. And very annoying!

yep had that aswell
also had it about 2 weeks ago

Same here, extremely annoying, sort it out betfair

In the interests of fairness having criticised it quite a lot -
at least been a few improvements of late,
bet info and ordering are now consistently active and quite like the facility to get rid of the bright yellow at the top of the betting screen along with the less intense blue/pink on the betting screen.

Yep. It's getting better. The punctuated loading is a pain. I wish they would just add the runners
without me having to scroll down. It's a pain when you do a page search and your selection isn't there
only to find that it appears after you scroll.

quite like the facility to get rid of the bright yellow at the top of the betting screen along with the less intense blue/pink on the betting screen.

thanks for that hint brentford ... i didn't know that was availabe

for anyone else as benighted as me: Settings (top right of the lower Menu Bar) > Alternative Colour Scheme

makes a helluva (positicve) difference imo.

new site or old - it seems quite remarkable that after all this time Saturday afternoons are so often problematic.

Brentford/gus, the "less intense blue/pink on the betting screen." has been made more intense again, albeit less intense than originally.  We don't even have the option of which we prefer now.

After all this time Betfair still haven't bothered to put a scroll bar on the sports menu!