General Betting
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LIQUIDITY IN BIG DECLINE ON BETFAIR
LIQUIDITY IN BIG DECLINE ON BETFAIR
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Replies: 756
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that's not true pmbets
betfair prices are far more often better than tote prices , US racing |
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@pmbets
"US horse racing tote(and that is bad)often pays more than betfair SP." US Racing isn't my thing (I have enough trouble keeping abreast of UK racing) but a casual browse of recent results doesn't show Totes paying more than BSP at all often - what tracks/meetings are you looking at to suggest they do? And I can't see how predictions about the future of the Exchange can be based on the liquidity in US Racing and Baseball markets - sure, it's got to be frustrating for fans of those sports, but it's hardly BF's core Exchange revenue stream... |
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Yep, agree with those points Honky - prob never recreate flutter entirely, but it could at least be a part of the picture.
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sorry - just realised that was in reply to post on previous page.
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I had $800- on a pacer yesterday at pinjarra pacing and got fixed odds of $2.50,
the horse traded at no better then $1.60 on betfair showing the need to always shop around. Won like a $1.10 shot though. |
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$2.50 N.S.W tab...
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Bet daq has put comm up from 3% to 5%. No one hardly uses them as it is and the comm increase will mean even less volumes there. I'm using Matchbook and Smarkets wherever I can.
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Bet daq called me to offer me 2% commission on all markets from now until 31 Jan. I've never been a big player on there and my account was empty when they called. Worth getting in touch, although they really should to that for all customers for the next year.
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some good deals out there if you are willing to take the time and trouble to negotiate
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Just found out if you bet through betting agents such as premium tradings and bet ibc they give you betfair accounts with fixed 3.8% and 3.5% comm. Might have to open my next account with one of them.
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Hearing Matchbook has gained huge increase in volumes. Everyone who has left betfair exchange, such as the countries put on 7% commission and premium charge accounts would have most likely gone there.
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That increase in Matchbook is most likely down to my betting.
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careful out there people. don't get butlered...
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People might have being saying that it´s the end of the exchange for years, fact is, it´s been in decline for a long time,ever since they started the premium charge, serious football punters don´t touch the place anymore, none of the syndicates use betfair, it´s all changed and that´s what they want!
Someone wrote that a couple agents offer betfair at 3.5 to 3.8% , believe me, if you are a serious punter you can get lower than that, the website betting-analyst gave me a master account agent at 2%, i´m sure they could do the same for players of substance so try them out, agents are the way forward, single wallet to many accounts, remove the juice and away you go! For US racing their are some Asian exchanges that offer better liquidity, aastar is one! |
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Puertabanus, could you put up a few of the other big Asian exchanges that handle US Racing, please?
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Citibet would be the other one,with regards to aastar, the trading is in HKD unless you shoot a million a month, send a mail to the guys at betting-analyst,they will tell you a bit more-----for info matchbook will start with racing in the new year!
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Thanks Puertabanus.
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As far as I can tell Betfair is the only exchange that gives details of volumes matched. We know they 'seed' the markets with inter and intra market cross matching but not sure if they seed other than that. It is also unclear if they use ml algos to analyse exchange winners' bets to craft their own positions. But looking at their sportsbook prices it seems unlikely.
But that is more open than other exchanges. Do match and these other exchanges seed their markets? How much money on them is 'real'? How much is actually matched. If they are not licenced in the UK and taking UK customers bets they will be breaking law at the end of the month. |
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Matchbook have a license in the UK, with regards to seeding the markets,it goes without saying that when an exchange is owned by one of the largest betting syndicates in the world they will be pumping the markets,however,evaluate seeding, all they are actually doing is using there Asian bookmaker base to acquire the top odds and sell on with a commission,a betting syndicate with sports modellers would know how to do that better than a company like betfair,it´s all about the knowledge base!
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Do they then update their models using data from winning accounts?
As far as I can tell on the Gambling Commission website the license for Triplebet Limited is pending. |
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Agents and brokers use profiling like you mentioned,it´s not necessarily so they can latch onto a clients bet but more for deciding whether they want to take a position or not!--take our own bets,we probably hit the maximum allowed (with one book) so they would be losing a few pips if they tracked us!
I would say Matchbook are a stand alone, in that their feed and seeding comes from the odds available,we can bet free of commission but that´s because we are know to them and it´s just a way of letting us do what we already do--------track odds,scrape lines and profit from knowledge! I actually think following others could lead to confrontation with decision making,smartodds employ enough people (over 100) and they have their own algorithms and methods, i´m always amazed that sports modellers become so focused on the under/over! Has you know--a license application is enough to be allowed continuance ! |
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My local TABs are often offering better fixed odds prices then the same horse trades on betfair,
due to the now very poor market depths, and of course much easier to place a bet etc. |
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I Never thought I would see the day when another exchange, had at least equal, if not more liquidity than betfair on a test match
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What do you mean PTTT? I assume you're talking Pak v Oz... What exchange even comes close to what's being matched at Betfair?
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Got to admit that I used Betfair exclusively between 2006 and 2009 but now it accounts for 10% of my betting activities.
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Charkitz, please read the thread over the past few months and then you will read who is offering very good liquidity on numerous sports, I trade cricket, so as a consequence they are getting more of my business; winning without paying P/C is like winning twice
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I still use betfair as the best operating platform by far, but increasingly I am trading elsewhere like a vast majority of P/C payers, betfair are aware of this and are happy to get some of my business when i am paying them P/C
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Matchbook is great, you can just get on with it and bet and not have to worry about trying to keep total charges over 20%. My betting there has gone through the roof.
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Just to add, what a disappointment bet daq have turned out to be. Commission up to 5%! and liquidity further down than ever.
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I had a play with Matchbook in the summer and the interface is truly horrid!
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takes a little while familiarising yourself with the matchbook interface, but I am now familiar with it and not to bad, currently not as good as betfairs, but hey they spend £10ms a year on technology
. Have actually traded more on the banga v zimbabwe test match with matchbook than betfair that is a first |
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I do football. WBX is OK for big games. 3% commish.
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Well done Betfair Mgt - the customer views are indicating that this is a place of last resort or betting due to premium charges or fear of premium charges
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Well done Betfair Mgt - the customer views are indicating that this is a place of last resort for betting due to premium charges or fear of premium charges
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Have to say that I am also noticing a substantial reduction in trading/liquidity in American Football markets.
There is no doubt in my mind that Betfair is mostly focused in attracting customers to the Sportsbook and Casino/Games side of their business where margins are, presumably, higher. The change in this company since I joined (2001, I believe) has been dramatic. It's a bit like one of these Silicon Valley startups where the founders do it for the love of the product only to be sidelined by the accountants after it grows. I dug out an article with a former member of Betfair's management which looks even more true today than when it was published. http://centrecourttrading.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/interview-with-scott-ferguson.html |
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That article is spot on
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Once crap like the casino came in, the company ethos had changed and it went downhill internally from there.
About sums it up. |
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PTTT, I assume you're referring to Matchbook? Not one single cent traded on the ODI between NZ and SA today at Matchbook, whereas over 1 million pound was traded on completed match market alone at Betfair... No contest!
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Did not watch that game Charkitz, and they do not operate a completed match market whereas betfair do, however i traded approximately 50k to 70k on the banga v zim test and like wise the pakistan v Aus test with matchbook and paid very little commission and similar volumes with betfair, but more commission. So can not have it always Charkitz
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What do Betfair clocks and Betfair exchange pricing have in common?
Ans) Both behind the times. |