General Betting
How not to bet!
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GBI RACING .......before race.
================================================================================================================== JLT Lockinge Stakes With the Newmarket Classics out of the way, milers aged four years or older take centre stage in the Group 1 JLT Lockinge Stakes, the second of the QIPCO British Champions Series races in the mile (1600m) category. This top class contest has been won by the likes of Russian Rhythm and Rakti and many of this year’s field will be looking to build a solid platform on which tobase their season. Indeed, last year’s winner Canford Cliffs won the race en route to a thrilling Royal Ascot Victory in the Queen Anne Stakes. The greatest miler we’ve seen for some time; Frankel makes his seasonal reappearance here, with a view to targets over longer distances later in the season. Regarded by Sir Henry Cecilas the best he’s ever trained, the highest rated horse in the world is unbeaten in all of his nine starts to date. His form, ability and scope to improve further as a four year old, will be factored in his skinny price in this renewal of the Lockinge His main rival, Excelebration comes into the race with a fitness edge,but Frankel is one of the most talented racehorses of all time, and should begin an exciting season with a victory here. ================================================================================================================================================== The comment made by JBI RACING in your quote......is just that .....Their opinion..... It is clear from theri opinion in the quote I post above, that they believed F would win.......and in their opinion the MAIN RIVAL was Excelebration....not Bullet Train. According to RACING POST comment AFTER the race .... Excelebration (IRE) 100/30 4 9-0 A P O'Brien 126 * * » Joseph O'Brien Disputed 3rd until driven and quickened to go 2nd approaching final furlong, kept on well but never any chance with easy winner =========================================================================================================================================================== It is a prestigious race , and the owner of BT and Frankel was the same person.......so what! One horse was a 5 yo ( BT) and the other a 4 yo (F). Of course the expectation of the owner would be that F would win......but in case it had an off day, they also ran another horse that possibly could win.....if race conditions were in its favour.....which they were4 not IMO. Horses are not machines, and F could have had an off day.....or pulled up injured etc.... BT did set the pace for race......but when F took it on .....as well as the other horses ...according to RACING POST ....it was "an easy winner" BT tried to win from front ...and failed.....as did all the other horses in race...except FRANKEL. Give credit where it is due.....the best horse in race won....... FACT |
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And there is no "race pacemaker", he was Frankels pacemaker, pure and simple.
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Frankels last 6 starts:
DATE RACE CONDITIONS WGT RACE OUTCOME JOCKEY OR TS RPR Video 20Oct12 Asc 10Sft C1G1 737K 9-3 1/6 (1¾L Cirrus Des Aigles 9-3) 2/11F Tom Queally 140 * * Video 22Aug12 Yor 10GF C1G1 411K 9-5 1/9 (7L Farhh 9-5) 1/10F Tom Queally 140 * * Video 01Aug12 Goo 8Gd C1G1 179K 9-7 1/4 (6L Farhh 9-7) 1/20F Tom Queally 140 * * Video 19Jun12 Asc 8GS C1G1 198K 9-0 1/11 (11L Excelebration 9-0) 1/10F Tom Queally 138 * * Video 19May12 Nby 8Gd C1G1 99K 9-0 1/6 (5L Excelebration 9-0) 2/7F Tom Queally 136 * * Video 15Oct11 Asc 8Gd C1G1 567K 9-0 1/8 (4L Excelebration 9-0) 4/11F Tom Queally 135 * * Bullet Train last 6 starts: DATE RACE CONDITIONS WGT RACE OUTCOME JOCKEY OR TS RPR Video 20Oct12 Asc 10Sft C1G1 737K 9-3 6/6 (14½L Frankel 9-3) 100/1 Ian Mongan 113 * * Video 22Aug12 Yor 10GF C1G1 411K 9-5 5/9 (13½L Frankel 9-5) 50/1 Eddie Ahern 108 * * Video 01Aug12 Goo 8Gd C1G1 179K 9-7 4/4 (9¾L Frankel 9-7) 150/1 Ian Mongan 111 * * Video 19Jun12 Asc 8GS C1G1 198K 9-0 6/11 (16L Frankel 9-0) 66/1 Ian Mongan 111 * * Video 19May12 Nby 8Gd C1G1 99K 9-0 4/6 (12L Frankel 9-0) 100/1 Ian Mongan 106 * * Video 15Oct11 Asc 8Gd C1G1 567K 9-3 8/8 (12L Frankel 9-0) 150/1 Ian Mongan 106 * * Google pacemaker bullet train, and you will find 1.7 million results. And you want to claim I will get sued for suggesting that BT ran purely to help his brother out? You are an absolute goose. |
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FACT...Frankel won...again.......So some might say that no matter what horse ran against it...it would win.....in those races.
You continue your name calling ...makes no difference to me.....all that matters is the FACT FRANKEL won......as was the best horse on the day re the race you selected. |
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BJT ...31.10.13 2.50
"There is no secret I think that horse is very overrated and I have been very vocal in giving my opinions. Problem here, is the horse is the highest profile horse in the world and the tactics used for it are very questionable in quite a few of his races. What better example of problems in racing can you make when you have the option of showing rorted races involving the most publicised horse in the world?" ====================================================================================================================================== So you believe the races run by FRANKEL were dishonest schemes for it to win? Fact is ...it has won every race.............................and with race you picked ...it apparently was an " easy winner " ( According to RP)...... You make no secret that you believe FRANKEL is "overrated"......but who cares what your opinion is....the FACT is it keeps winning. Not FRANKEL's fault the other horses can't beat it at the distances on the going at the time of year the races were run...... |
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Actually the race I originally pointed out as the most obvious use of team riding, the QIPCO Champion Stakes, if Bullet Train was in the race for himself and not for Frankel, CDA would have beaten him.
Unsure how you think him winning disproves that team riding benefited him. |
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GBI RACING ....( as you like to quote them)
QIPCO British Champions Day The £1.3m QIPCO Champion Stakes will be the richest race in British racing history and is the showcase event of the British Champions Middle Distance series. The 2,012m race has been won by equine stars such as Pebbles and Rakti. Sir Henry Cecil is likely to land his fifth victory in this courtesy of Frankel, who recently stepped up in trip to ten furlongs in the Group 1 Juddmonte International Stakes, recording another bloodless victory. He is once again the star attraction and his progression has been hugely responsible for the increased hype surrounding this fantastic event. =============================================================================================================================================== Anyone who has a horse that MIGHT be capable of winning a race where prize money was richest race in British racing history, would enter it. The ease which FRANKEL won the race was just down to BT .....in your opinion.......RUBBISH! HORSE/SP AGE WGT TRAINER/JOCKEY OR TS RPR « 1 3 Frankel 2/11F 4 9-3 Sir Henry Cecil 140 * * Tom Queally Started slowly, recovered into 4th after 3f, brought wide and progress over 2f out, cruised up to lead over 1f out, shaken up to assert final furlong (op 1-5 tchd 1-4 in places and 1-6 in a place) « 2 1 1¾ Cirrus Des Aigles (FR) 9/2 6 9-3 Mme C Barande-Barbe 130 * * » Olivier Peslier Led after 1f to over 5f out, led again well over 2f out and kicked on, ridden and headed over 1f out, stayed on but readily held (op 4-1 tchd 5-1, tchd 11-2 in a place) « 3 6 2½ Nathaniel (IRE) 9/1 4 9-3 John Gosden 126 * * William Buick Sweating, tracked leader after 2f to 6f out, ridden to challenge over 2f out, beaten off over 1f out, one pace (op 10-1) « 4 5 3½ Pastorius (GER) 33/1 3 8-12 Mario Hofer 122 * * » Frankie Dettori Held up in last, effort to go 4th 2f out, no impression on leader after « 5 2 4 Master Of Hounds (USA) 80/1 4 9-3 William Haggas 115 * * » Ryan Moore Held up and soon in 5th, ridden and weakened over 2f out (op 66-1) « 6 4 2½ Bullet Train 100/1 5 9-3 Sir Henry Cecil 113 * * Ian Mongan Led 1f, restrained, moved up to lead again over 5f out to well over 2f out, weakened ============================================================================================ FRANKEL won by 3 lengths........and you believe this was down to BT?????? RUBBISH The going suited it and the field of runners just could not cope with FRANKEL. You keep insisting it was TEAM RIDING....but the FACT was that CIRRUS DES AIGLES was the horse that led for much of race....... « 2 1 1¾ Cirrus Des Aigles (FR) 9/2 6 9-3 Mme C Barande-Barbe 130 * * » Olivier Peslier Led after 1f to over 5f out, led again well over 2f out and kicked on, ridden and headed over 1f out, stayed on but readily held (op 4-1 tchd 5-1, tchd 11-2 in a place) BULLET TRAIN did lead for part of race.....SO WHAT! Bullet Train 100/1 5 9-3 Sir Henry Cecil 113 * * Ian Mongan Led 1f, restrained, moved up to lead again over 5f out to well over 2f out, weakened Guess what ....it might have been trying to win the richest race in British history   ...............but you are a conspiracy theorist , even though the going was against it winning on the day.....and suited FRANKEL.FRANKE again was the "best" horse in the race....and won..... " cruised up to lead over 1f out, shaken up to assert final furlong". You say " if Bullet Train was in the race for himself and not for Frankel,CDA would have beaten him. Unsure how you think him winning disproves that team riding benefited him." ................................This is just your opinion.....not FACT .... |
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yes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbeTIc-ZfvA A "couple" of questions are 2....not 3..... So you jump to an assumption that have not watched the race.......typical of the way you debate with yersel! FRANKEL won easily...even after a slow start.......so what the feck are you on about? |
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You say "The horse went to the front to slip stream frankel, "..........that is just your opinion......and not what happened in race....
FRANKEL just ssslipstreamed NATHANIEL for most of race....it easily caught them up after a slow start..... CDA was the horse wanting to push on with pace of race...and did so..... FRANKEL cruised up and just won without any resort to whip...unlike CDA..... So I suggest you just accept the best horse won on the day..... |
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What was Bullet Trains jockey looking around to see if he wanted the lead? He took the lead, then restrained for some "unknown" reason. Why was that, and why was he searching the field constantly until Frankel had the sit on Nathaniel?
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Says a whole lot though I ask 3 questions, and your only response is that is more than a "couple".... rotflmfao.... Hope your dad ups your allowance soon.
GL with that. |
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If you were observant enough ....it was not just BT's jockey looking around.......another horse's jockey looked around.....
Now how you interpret that is just a matter of opinion.....BT jockey maybe was expecting a lead from FRANKEL... ....as was the other jockey looking round early!I can't interpret what is in your heid.......mince posibly  ......Just open your eyes and acknowledge FRANKEL won race easily after a slow start ( for once)..... Your churlish comments don't really surprise me.....and just admit that a couple is 2....not 3...... You churning out questions on a race that was a cllear win by FRANKEL makes me think you are OBSESSED re FRANKEL ...and your opinion that FRANKEL is overrated. Most horses are OVERRATED by commentators but the ratings speak for themselves... Top ranked horses Horse names are followed by a suffix indicating the country where foaled. Year Rating Horse Trained Race 2003 134 Hawk Wing (USA) Ireland Lockinge Stakes 2004 130 Ghostzapper (USA) United States Breeders' Cup Classic 2005 130 Hurricane Run (IRE) France Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2006 129 Invasor (ARG) United States Breeders' Cup Classic 2007 131 Manduro (GER) France Prince of Wales's Stakes 2008 130 Curlin (USA) United States Dubai World Cup Stephen Foster Handicap 130 New Approach (IRE) Ireland Champion Stakes 2009 136 Sea The Stars (IRE) Ireland Irish Champion Stakes 2010 135 Harbinger (GB) Great Britain King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2011 136 Frankel (GB)[1] Great Britain Sussex Stakes 2012 140 Frankel (GB)[2] Great Britain Queen Anne Stakes / Juddmonte International Stakes ...... It really is yersel that should grow up....and accept FRANKEL is an exceptional horse.........All your scurrilous comments re RORTED races...is just bull re FRANKEL..... If you cannot see that FRANKEL won the race easily....you are a poor observer re races.... G'day ... |
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The well paid commentator may share my opinion if you ever cared to actually watch the race....
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BHA RATED HORSES
Top rated horses of the last 25 years This is the official table of the top rated horses of the last 25 years. Please note non-European horses were only included from 1995 onwards Year 3 year olds Rating Older Horses Rating 2011 Frankel 136 Black Caviar 132 2010 Workforce & Makfi 128 Harbinger 135 2009 Sea The Stars 136 Goldikova 130 2008 New Approach 130 Curlin 130 2007 Authorized 129 Manduro 131 2006 Bernadini & Discreet Cat 128 Invasor 129 2005 Hurricane Run 130 Ghostzapper 128 2004 Smarty Jones 128 Ghostzapper 130 2003 Dalakhani 132 Hawk Wing 133 2002 Rock of Gibraltar 128 Marienbard 127 2001 Point Given 130 Sakhee 133 2000 Sinndar 132 Dubai Millenium 134 1999 Montjeu 135 Daylami 135 1998 Desert Prince 128 Skip Away 131 1997 Peintre Celebre 137 Pilsudski 134 1996 Helissio 134 Cigar 135 1995 Lammtarra 130 Cigar 132 1994 Balanchine 130 Maroof 128 1993 Zafonic 130 Opera House 129 1992 Rodrigo De Triano 127 Selkirk 128 1991 Generous 137 Priolo & Epervier Bleu 126 1990 Dayjur 133 Old Vic 130 1989 Zilzal & Old Vic 134 Carroll House 128 1988 Warning 133 Miesque 132 1987 Reference Point 135 Mtoto 134 1986 Dancing Brave 141 Shardari 132 1985 Slip Anchor 135 Rainbow Quest 133 ================================================================================================================== Clearly it is rated highly......though you believe it is OVERRATED.......Only your opinion...as the RATINGS indicate otherwise..... |
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BJT 06 Nov 13 14:48
The well paid commentator may share my opinion if you ever cared to actually watch the race.... Crazy ====================================================================================================================================================== The commentator states FRANKEL slipstreamed NATHANIEL......so not only can't you see what happened ...you don't listen properly either..... |
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Anyway .......the commentator is only expressing an opinion ...it was his interpretation on race.......and nothing takes away from FACT FRANKEL won easily after a slow start.....
How far would it have won...had it started normally?????? |
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Well played. You are a genius. Congratulations on the future Darwin award.....
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Nothing beats a British commentator claiming a complete rort of the rules of the BHA, on a live telecast broadcast to the world....
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The commentator expressed an opinion on why jockey looked back....but as stated...he was not the only jockey looking back ......you really are a biased eeeejjjjiiiittt.
Commentator never used your words ......so you just make it up as you go along.... FRANKEL won easily.....so what is your point? Grow up. |
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JBT ...You ask ( rather stupidly...as was clearly on video at start of race).....MASTER OF HOUNDS (horse number 4) jockey at around 16 secs looked round
to see where FRANKEL was ......................probably wanting to "slipstream" FRANKEL.....Who knows...certainly not you or the commentator. What the commentaor said was just his opinion...not fact. When he said FRANKEL was trying to slipstream BT......he never tried to do that.......FRANKEL's jockey just followed NATHANIEL for most of race..... Also BT was on inside rail at finish......FRANKEL always ran race on OUTSIDE of horses. CDA had at least a 5/6 length start in race over FRANKEL....but lost by 3 lengths ( SL states this....looked 2.5 lengths to me). FRANKEL cruised up to win easily.......without any help from any other horse in race. The commentator "expected" BT to be the lead horse BEFORE the race......based on his inane comments during the race. He tried to hype up the drama in race by his comments.. ....which was for the general public ....not professional punters . Based on FACTS of race....not opinion of commentaor......FRANKEL started slowly.....lost 5/6 lengths at start ....quickly made up ground to sit 4th behind NATHANIEL ( never tried to get behind BT)....kept to outside of field position....allowing CDA and BT and NATHANIEL to lead him round course. When FRANKEL made his move arount 1.42 secs on video......he cruised up and won easily...taking the lead without recourse to whip...... CDA jockey used whip at least twice before FRANKEL cruised past him......FRANKEL jockey did use whip once when about 2 lengths up near finish..... but still won clearly ahead of field. I don't give a feck about what the commentator said...as irrelevant to how easily FRANKEL won. If you are simple and believe every word a commentator makes....you are an eeejjjjiiiitttttttttttt FRANKEL won easily....end of discussion.......never attempted to slipstream BT........open yor eyes .... As already stated ...BT jockey MAY have wanted to slipstream FRANKEL .....as di horse MOH.......possibly....who knows....certainly not YOU! G'day. |
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I have watched the race, and find it amusing that you choose to ignore the relevance of what the conversation is actually about.
The plan of the race, was for BT, as per usual, to slipstream Frankel until about 3-4 furlongs, then pull off to the side and let him through, and take out anybody behind him. That was the plan in all their races. The jockey on Frankel was quite happy to sit behind Nathaniel once that was apparant it couldn't happen. The jockey on BT however, since that is what he was employed to do, tried to manoeuvre back through the field to get in front of Frankel to drag him through the field. Once he finally worked out that it wasn't happening, he then pushed his horse forward to put as much pressure on CDA as possible, seeing as that horse was Frankels main rival. Every move BT made in that race was about Frankel, not about BT getting the best possible finish for himself. The rest of the rubbish about how Frankel won, is just that, and not relevant here. The conversation, was about horses being in the race for others benefit, and riding dead. The conversation was about it being accepted practice in England for team riding, and riding horses dead to fraudulently rip off the general public. Hey you accept it, so good on you. Just because you accept it happening, doesn't suddenly mean that it isn't. Wish you good luck on the punt. Sounds like you need it. |
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You are brainwashed IMO.....
You appear to have made up your mind on how race would go.....BUT.....it didn't go your way or the way of the commentator. YUP....both of you were "wrong"! You had your dream race in your mind....but, it never happened the way you dreamt it would. FRANKEL won easily AFTER A SLOW START....................Had it come 2nd.....you probably would then have said it was down to not having BT leading it round, which of course would be just garbish. Your "conversation" is your conversation with yersel.........................you picked this race to be critical.... .not anyone else.....and you already had preconceived idea on how race would be run....which never happened. How many times does the outsider of 2 , from same stable/owner, win? Also, there are examples which you refer to that YOU could have selected. .....There are other stables/ races you could have selected to have a "conversation" re the topic YOU wish to discuss BUT you chose the race above. You chose a bad example to try to prove your point.......and all because you believe FRANKEL is an overrated horse . FRANKEL has a record that is excellent over the distances run and in the class of races............so your attempt to tarnish this horse's record had failed. You tried to fit the above race/horse into the category you have in your head........and fail to take into account just how easily FRANKEL won the race selected by you. The topic of thread was about "DRIFTING" in market.........then you introduced a topic that is clearly a " bee in the bonnet " one as far as you are concerned. So enough on the race selected......go open another thread on your topic if you wish ( I suspect it will be removed if your attacks are as scurrilous as the 2 on this thread). GL with your punts.....as I suspect you need LUCK more than I do |
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Queen Anne.
BT jumped out, steered 2 across to get in front, then slipstreamed him through most of the race. "But its Bullet Train, Frankels pacemaker" QE2 BT sent for home with 8 furlongs to go. Finished last. Lockinge. There to slipstream Frankel again. Beaten off early. Sussex There to slipstream Frankel. Commentator again. "So Bullet Train, with a few anxious looks over his shoulder, Ian Mongan, to ensure he is setting the right pace for Frankel".. Champion Tried slipstreaming, then went to pressure CDA when he couldn't. The only legitimate run in there, was the Juddmonte International. The rest he was running dead, with tactics purely designed to rort the rules of racing and the punter out of their money. So yes, these are the some of the things you look out for when horses are drifting. Cheating/fraud/rort/running them dead, whichever term you wish to use to describe the blatant disregard for the rules of racing in England. |
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Any horse AHEAD of FRANKEL slipstreamed it.................................................they all lost
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