General Betting
Bots all over the place
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I think they currently are running a trial where certain premium users do not have to pay any data charges, and at the moment people who use the new api do not have to either. Probably meaning that Betfair want more bots, not less.
Personally I think bots are essential to the exchange, and not detrimental. Generally speaking that is, trap betting bots for example are of course not good. |
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Can we hope for a change or will it just be worser? Obv the net is free of grammar bots
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the only way it's going to change, imo, is if there's a kind of Year Zero revamp of the exchange/company, where some kind of crisis forces them to address everything and people who actually understand the intricacies of the exchange start making decisions.
till then I just see it getting worserer and worserer. |
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that last bit actually caused me physical pain
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It certainly was the worserest.
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BJT: "Most will be using the site, and last I knew, that was about a 30 second refresh, which really means they have no fcuking clue if bots are there or not. "
I meant to say this last night. To me this thread is largely seeing a problem (low liquidity) and pointing at something some people don't personally like as the scapegoat. |
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Give me a break boys, i am swedish. There must have been worsererer grammar misstakes in here earlier.
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of course recreational punters doesn't know or care if the prices they're taking have been entered by a human at a keyboard or an automated programme.
but as various people have pointed out the issue is one of market formation, which reflects in the prices they can get. if you have three or four people competing to make a market manually and a bot enters it which makes them decide it's not worth the effort any more, that market will go into a death spiral. joe punter will see worse prices than he can get elsewhere, take his business on that market elsewhere, and possibly his betting on other markets will go with it. this is an example of the kind of thing I was talking about in the PC thread. an exchange doesn't work like a normal bookie because customers are not discreet. their activity has knock on effects that are hard to quantify. |
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I doubt any serious market makers get put off because someone's front run them by £2, PC and cross matching has had a far bigger effect on liquidity.Ironically cross matching was touted as one way of bringing liquidity into the derivative side markets but just seemed to have killed them stone dead
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it depends which markets you're talking about and how the bots work GJ.
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BJT shouting his angry little mouth of about something he doesn't understand. has this ever happened before?
where did I say I was trying to lay 2 quid? |
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Where you said the 1.99 layer was taking 99.5% of your business. rotflmfao
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when you've picked yourself up and reattached your errant ass, here's a hint.
the first 99.5% of nearly every bet's being stolen[...] this really isn't hard if you read what people say and think about it. if you don't want to do that, fine, but then it's probably best not to get involved as you run the risk of making a tw@t of yourself. as per the cricket forum, which is what this dismal intervention's actually about. |
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Of nearly every bet on a market where there are no bets happening. That is the point of this thread, that the markets are dead.
Cricket forum has nothing to with this thread from what I can tell. Haven't seen cricket mentioned anywhere until your post. |
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that's it, keep digging.
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bjt stop being a dipsh1t.
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Great points you both make. BF likely to look straight into it. Well done.
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some bots are detrimental to a betting exchange. it's as clear as daylight to see.
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what point is there left to make? you came on trying to take the p!ss out of someone you don't like, failed to understand a fairly simple point and made a t!t of yourself. your signature move.
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Some bots are detrimental to greedy fcuks that have had it easy for too long.
Would it make a difference if it was a bot or simply somebody sitting there moving there bets around. Sounds like that is all it would take to drive the competition off. 2 pounds. |
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the general betting forum used to be full of smart people and intelligent discussion. there's only mugs left on the forum and on the exchange due to most the smart people leaving because of the pc. betfair is a place for losers and idiots now. i'm out of here.
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really? forgotten the ashes and your marathon seethefest already? if you were any more transparent you'd be a greenhouse.
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What difference would you make to the ashes? Why would you feel important enough to invoke any emotions from me?
You made a post or something and now I hate you in your mind? Just like the 2 pound bot has put you out of business. Small world you live in. Time to think a little bigger. |
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The focus on the 1.99 bot is that it's a bot. It should be that it's minimum bet abuse. The prevalence of invisible bets makes markets inefficient and gives the invisible bettor an unfair advantage, especially if the 1.99 bet is replenished every time it gets taken. Sometimes when you look at the graph there are dozens of them all lined up 1 tick apart.
It's not unreasonable to expect, or hope for a level playing field but it looks like BF have given up on the exchange and are just letting it die a natural death now that they have their sportsbook. |
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bjt,the problem with bots is not a question of fairness it is a question of what is good for the exchange. for manual operators some markets are not worth to compete with a bot. this leads to a downward spiral of liquidity as the bots cut margin without competition and a chance to trade positions.
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And who says it is minimum bet abuse? It is quite plausable that the bettor is using a different currency. At certain monetary levels I am always out by a cent. Maybe it is exchange rates and this guy is sitting there all day doing zero wrong. Either way, all this rubbish complaining about a 2 pound bettor is just sad and ridiculous.
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BJT, you seem to have missed my point that the whether the 1.99 guy is a bot or not is a secondary consideration to the minimum bet abuse. In the main, I don't mind bots.
I accept your point about currencies, it is plausible. I am definitely not complaining about £2 punters, so don't try and suggest that I am. As regards being "scared off", who says that I am? You seem to be making several assumptions about me and my betting. Perhaps you could try reading people's posts before you switch into rant mode. One bot that does annoy me is when you go to a completely dead market, put up a bet and the bot enters in front of you. You do the 2-step with him for a minute and give up. Then you cancel and so does the bot. End result - zero matched and market empty again. |
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I seed virtually every sports market (bar football and tennis) on Betfair for a few hundred quid. The majority of the time, especially in empty markets, £2 beats my prices. Am I bothered? Not in the slightest. I know the price I want to lay at and that's the price I put in. If someone wants a decent bet then they'll take the £2 and then hit my money. I turn over hundreds of K a week in matched bets so the £2s really aren't affecting my turnover too much. I'd be more bothered by a BOT putting a few K in front of my prices because that would affect my turnover greatly.
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Exactly.
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I think Betfair should provide a facility to allow a customer to tag his bet to keep it at the front of the queue, be that on the bet side or the lay side, with the proviso of allowing the customer to place his minimum or maximum criteria. I know they tried this a few years ago, but it was a bit half hearted and never really worked, with the 'crack team' of programmers they have now I am sure they could add this type of betting to the Exchange. It would certainly drive the markets to lower percentages pretty quickly having bets Gazumping each other every few seconds or so.
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So to counter the pesky bots, people want to run BF approved and programmed bots.
ok. |
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To the ones complaining about leap frogging bots, if they think that strategy is profitable why not get a similar sort of bot for themselves or encourage Betfair to provide a facility to allow their prices to leap frog . To the people with leap frogging bots what's wrong with allowing lots of other customers to have the same facility, or do they think it might mess up there strategy.
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indeed. seems that many of the complainers are assuming that the liquidity they provide is somehow superior or more important to the exchange than the liquidity provided by bots, and then deriving their conclusions from that rather fanciful assumption
betfair clearly disagree, as they are happily rolling out a new API as we speak |
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"I think Betfair should provide a facility to allow a customer to tag his bet to keep it at the front of the queue"
And what happens when you have 2 or more BF bots set to go ahead of each other? Within 1 second the back/lay is 1 tick?? Re sub £2 bets you see that all the time if it's bet in euros, it's like £1.66 or whatever comes off instead of 2. If someone has that 1 tick ahead of you and it gets matched, either the matchor (matchee?) was trying to also go 1 tick ahead of you (strange if that happens all the time) or they are trying to match your bet and you lose a (small) fraction of it? |
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Why shouldn't more people have the opportunity to have there bets at the front of the queue, or is it only the preserve of a privileged few. Why shouldn't there only be a a tick between prices, if you were making an error in your perceived value you would soon start loosing money and either give up or revise your strategy .
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BJT, feel free to pick me up on things I didn't say in one post and then ignore my reply. At least you got to tell us what you think (again), which is the most important thing.
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llademos, read this again and think about it .. "what happens when you have 2 or more BF bots set to go ahead of each other?" ..
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