it seems to me that if they're prominently advertising how much better their (exchange) prices have been than the competition's over various events, then their homepage takes you to the sportsbook, there's an advertising standards issue to be addressed.

how disgusting is the fact that now its obvious (like some people suggested) they have deliberately been making the exchange unusable for its intended purpose and all this feedback nonsense is/was just a lie.

Betfair has been providing a pricing service for years which other fixed odds firms have used for years to build much more profitable businesses. But the exchange business was very profitable and that is what Betfair have forgotten. They are an exchange and were a very good one. Their main USP is that they provide a fairer deal and a new way of betting.

They should not be worrying about what other firms are doing. Does the NYSE worry that the spread betting companies use 'their prices' to help make quotes?

People simply expected Betfair to grow bigger than it has. When they got their first £1m matched race back in 2002 when Russian Rhythm was beaten in the Cheveley Park Stakes I think most people expected totals matched to keep growing forever. They havent and this is the real failing of those running Betfair for the last decade. A great concept and an initial brilliant 2 or 3 years by the founders has been followed by a series failed opportunities. A brigade of professional managers have been paid millions to tamper with the concept.

Instead of tackling the core factors that have inhibited growth they have used crude tools to grab profits. They chose the Premium Charges rather addressing the fundamental reasons some people are winning so much and some are losing too quickly. This was an issue that had to be addressed. There are areas of market failure on Betfair that have been left untouched.

The tool of the Premium Charge has not stopped those with a massive edge from operating. Traders and 'courtsiders' are still here destroying the the markets. Anyone who provided liquidity by arbing, gambling (in the old fashioned sense with a low ROS - but profitable), those leaving up limit orders in markets have been forced to move some or all of their bets. Anyone approaching the Charge will move in time.

Flexible tools like seperate early markets, different market base rates for low margin sports, and larger tick sizes to encourage limit orders (and discourage HFTs) have not been used.

The consequences of Betfair's failure to run an efficient exchange is a whole new band of parasites who have replaced the bookmakers. Trading rooms, people travelling the length of the UK to shout 'press now' into a mobile phone seeing the action unfold seconds before at home mugs. People selling software for £40 a month allowing people to scalp the market for profit giving punters a worse price. The list goes on.

Address the reasons people are losing too quickly and Betfair will grow. Ignore the issues and put them in the too difficult to solve draw and growth will stop. Punters are not stupid.

I am not adverse to the idea of a seperate fixed odds site. But a worse version than what other people have with no USP? Surely not. They could be using it to innovate e.g. offering competitive football prices to high stakes (using the exchange to hedge if needed) but they are not. They are offering a run of the mill bookies that restricts like everyone else.

Agreed the man - it goes against what they said the PC was for, which to quote Frog above was in "addressing the fundamental reasons some people are winning so much and some are losing too quickly".

As a former forumite said to me before Christmas - BF should be ensuring that new customers get the best possible run for their money.  There seem to areas to this a) not getting ripped off by hoover gangs b) getting the best odds on average for each bet on this site, thereby their bank lasting longer.

Logging in on Sat am and being presented with Chris Ashton at 11/2 first try Eng v Scot when 6/1 was at least the price elsewhere and 7/1 was available in 2 or 3 places really stank.  If the new customer doesn't just walk away never to return, but is lured in by the 11/2 then it is BF who are winning so much and this new customer is losing more quickly than ever before.

If you have a friend who earn 3 times more than you, you becoming jealous. Same betfair. B365 earned 140 m. Bf 40 in 2012  Clear move for money. There is only one main thing. Do you imagine Ferrari racing car painted in a green? they are never stops doing what they used to. Its tradition. No matter if its better or worse year. But ... we are not ferrari.

"What a great idea this place once was and what a rancid shower of sh1t it has become,unrecognisable from the early days."

source:
patrick starr
community.betfair.com/greyhounds/go/thread/view/94094/29758337/greyhound-racing-fixed-odds

another thread
Why have Betfair started fixed odds

community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/29759795/why-have-betfair-started-fixed-odds#flvWelcomeHeader

its all shocking stuff 4 me!
Its good that im going to se real game(with real players) today at Wembley.

silverback..  this is the link to the new homepage for new customers (and those without cookies etc).

http://www.betfair.com/sport

They must be on seriously dodgy ground with some of their advertising campaigns.

Look how many promotions they have! Do you see any on the exchange?sorry. Mega minute promotion. LOL!

Eng v Brazil is a great example.  BF are 15/8 Eng.  Nobody is 15/8 Eng, not even shyters like ****.  Even Stevie Wonder would get at least 2/1, yet this mob want to scam people with the lowest price anywhere.

I think they are going to see a decrease in profits.  Bet 365 are doing well because their product is comprehensive and competitive and they have a USP.  Blue Square are doing badly because their product is not comprehensive and uncompetitive and they don't have a USP.  Betfair FO is worse than Blue Square and their reputation and advertising and USP is that they have the best prices.

over and above what it means to any of us personally, it seems such a shame what's happened to this company over the last few years.

sorry froggy, if you're replying to me you should know that i've got you blocked.

It will reduce liquidity.  Before the change, any new customer coming to Betfair would use the exchange.  Now, a significant % will use the sportsbook.

It won't be something we notice to begin with but over time the exchange will begin to have a drop in number of customers as Betfair have cannibalised them by having the sportsbook as their main offering.

The idea that those using the fixed odds site will 'progress' to the exchange is one I've seen a number of times but not one I fully agree with.  If Betfair Fixed Odds didn't exist, then many gamblers would eventually move to the exchange having spent time using the many high street bookies.

Templeton
If a " mug" customer comes to BF purely in response to an ad that he has seen on TV or elsewhere that BF offers better prices, then he's not really " exchange" material is he ?
The exchange is for those who are a little bit more sophisticated in their betting techniques and, as such, has the introduction of the sportsbook really changed things all that much ?
As an example, no matter how much advvertising Bet 365 does, I will never migrate to their site as I know it would be pointless in the end as I will be restricted or banned.
To me Pinnacle is the real competitor to BF.
It always has been and always probably will be. Nothing has changed in this respect imo.

"too stupid to realise that the sportsbook isnt the exchange"

Clydebank, the irony about 3.65's USP is that it is entirely dependent on bf's pricing service (free) and bf's IR offering.

I agree w/ 95% of what frog said in the morning.

The exchange had a legitimate beef with people who won from their losers too quickly using systematically low-risk methods. They had various options open to them, like larger bet sizes for diff. customers (unlikely to work), larger tick sizes for diff. customers and freeze-outs on trading (possible?) and vastly increased data or mobile charges, but instead trawled with a very wide net called the pc.

Everything they have done instead has had at its heart the belief that losers should be losing to them, the bookmaker, not to other clients of an exchange.

My sense is further that the management of the company, with some longserving exceptions who are devotees of particular sports and some at the highest echelons, don't understand how bad they are.

We all know the boastful, stupid, greedy type--the type that sees someone else doing something well and wants a piece of the action themselves.

Imv their best course is to be the best and most popular bookmaker on the planet.

A bookmaker is essentially a middle man. It's impossible for all of a bookie's clients to win. Some win, some lose and the bookie takes a cut. Bf should take the smallest possible cut on the greatest possible no. of bets.

Their key metric (and this would be what I would say if I were a fund manager with a bf holding) shd be 'how popular are they with clients?'--that is, with all clients.

If they are popular and loved, what matter that 2% of their clients are long-term winners? Popularity and efficient prices will bring more losers. OK, perhaps find targeted ways of dealing with excess winners but accept the shrewd 2% that arb you, that trade over the course of the day, that make successful books, that are good judges on a variety of events w/out inside info.

Become the most popular book of these people and wait for everyone else to come to you.

FATH, as a winner you want to be the shark betting against many fish. It's like poker.

Anything that changes the composition of the sea, to make it more shark and less fish, is bad for you.

And bad changes will be hard to see, in that you know how you are beating the fish and are perforce ignorant of how the other sharks are beating you.

essentially the logic seems to be: we've built a known and popular brand through doing one thing really well. now let's take advantage of that brand recognition to make money by launching a new business doing the opposite.

just can't see that working long term.