One more point... the football correct score markets don't have a 'any unquoted' selection for their fixed odds offering.

I suppose there's probably not an official definition of "fixed odds" but I find it a strange description of this new venture.

Are fixed odds basically just bets with a known return if successful? Like every bet I place on the exchange.

I suppose there's probably not an official definition of "fixed odds" but I find it a strange description of this new venture.

Are fixed odds basically just bets with a known return if successful? Like every bet I place on the exchange.

it seems to me, after a bit of thought, that this could be a valuable addition to the site if:

i. by default you would always initially attempt to place your bet on the exchange

ii. you would be presented with the option to have your bet matched by the fixed odds product if:

a. your bet could not be matched in full on the exchange
b. the odds you requested were better in the fixed odds product after taking into account commission.

alternatively, should the customer place a bet using the fixed odds product and request a bet which could be matched a better price on the exchange (after taking account into commission), they are offered the opportunity to place the bet on the exchange.

it's one thing for a bookmaker to accept a bet in the knowledge that his competitors may be offering a better price, but the concept that a better price is available on the same site but not making your customers directly aware of it, seems like sharp practice to me.

Watching everything evolve, it is a product that was not developed with the exchange in mind BUT one that would use the exchange.

Thus a myriad of logarithms that kick into action with each bet placed either (a) hedging any risk by "the bookmaker" or (b) generating income through commissions by matching on the exchange.

The latter point, betfair has worked to allow more bets to be matched.  Cross matching has done that and with each successful cross-match comes a commission.  We should be happy since our positions are being matched more.  I see it as beneficial.  I see more positions filled allowing me to move forward quicker, especially positioning for in-running on several horses.  Those that weren't happy were those who, like myself, made money by playing a combination of positions based on traders moving to fill positions or taking advantage of gaps in the market for a quick trade.

Research (even casually by myself) shows that a great portion of the public still don't understand exchanges or are intimidated (think back to when you started.  the only advantage I had was I traded on the stock market.  Even then, the back/lay/multi-position took a while).  early "success stories" were people like Raj Patel laying successfully but not multiple horses in a race.  DJSunset had success by finding value in the trades of punters pushing prices out of perspective (it still happens in tennis today / less so in football).

Betfair tried explaining the exchange to the public but it is pointless. Come the grand national, they want to click and take their bet.  Same with weekend footie from their phone.  Betfair are simply creating another bookmaking option.

What is interesting is that their ad campaign which should be affective, is doing price comparison - something the public love.  What is interesting is it is prices on the EXCHANGE **yet** most of the punters they capture will simply go to the fixed odds site.

It also allows betfair to promote themselves in other ways. And, eventually, betfair kiosque high street shops will be there if, for no other reason, to market the name Betfair.

The risk is not huge since, as someone already pointed out, the ceiling on bets is there.  They still want the "big accounts" to go to the exchange.  That's fine.  5% off of them plus head-to-head liquidity is a good thing.

The only advantage for me is that I do late night baseball / west coast kicks off at 2AM onwards. 

To date, I have been using other bookmakers since liquidity is not there sometimes till after midnight.  I tried finding fixed odds last night but couldn't.  Curious to see if it is "convenient" for me or will I continue to pay in cash at my local Willies.

People expected ground-breaking odds.  Give them time.  They will find the right moments to "promote better fixed odds" and take some chances.  Also, based on hedging and trading through the exchange, their odds movements for fixed, especially once they get enough people using the APP for Fixed (not exchange) will be interesting.

P.S.  The word "fixed" is not best used when talking gambling and sports

when doe,s it start on horses will it be win market only

Not that I would want a super competitive bookie competing with me when I want to lay something.

The odds are terrible it's a waste of time and effort. Better odds on the exchange.
They say it'll be useful for early markets when there's no liquidity in the exchange but if people know the odds aren't very competetive they'll go elsewhere anyway.

I think they made a mistake getting someone from those crooks at Ladbrokes to help them with it. They should have gone to a pro firm like Pinnacle, Sbobet, Greek who know how to run a bookmakers and then it could have been something.

Personally I think the whole thing is deeply flawed.

Its like going to a shop with a ground floor and a small first floor.  Everything that is available on the first floor is available downstairs, but only a fraction of the stock.  Yet everything upstairs is more expensive than the same product downstairs.  Why would you bother going upstairs at all?  Its so bleeding obvious you wouldn't.  To make matters worse you can only access upstairs if you enter downstairs so the only customers they will get are customers that have already walked through the door.  It's such a ridiculous waste of their money imo.

Aye well said clydebank and henok. I agree with that and it was obvious from the start.

The thing is pompey if no one is offering it downstairs its because there's barely no demand or it's too difficult to price up.  Betfair won't touch the too difficult markets ever.  As for competitiveness it never will be.  That it is worse value than even Bodog quite clearly shows that they are far too scared of losing to ever being close to being so.

It will be interesting when betfair fixed odds appear on comparison sites like oddscheker.

I can see bookmakers doing adverts showing how many prices were worse on betfair ( fixed odds), thus by association damaging the brand of betfair and it's exchange.

I can see this becoming a business hari-kiri on a massive scale, a real textbook case.

To make the fixed odds worthwhile, they need to offer 1) prices better than those of other bookies, 2) on markets illiquid on the exchange 3) to everyone 4) up to a generous defined liability.

This might just work by being popular and attracting a spread of business. A spread of business on tight overrounds is all you need to win; you don't need to be a razor-sharp pricer.

In other words, this new fixed offs has to be a pinnacle for sports like racing.

Otherwise they are just going to trash the brand. Rather than cower behind the exchange odds like 1Bet, it would be better if they did nothing.

People are not stupid; they are not going to do significant business with bf fixed odds. The reason people lose is not that they are flat-out ignorant about price; it's more that they risk too much price-insensitively when they are losing and are otherwise indisciplined. If bf close down these people's occasional good bets b/c they can't lay them off, it will be the death-knell for any mass trust.

turned down for a grand on  england in the test match or schiavone tomorrow, despite there being plenty to hedge on the exchange for a nice little arb.

it's an odd state of affairs.

Couldn't even get £10 on. "Their crack trading team" is more of a crap trading team.

One fundamental function of a fixed odds site is the ability to see in advance what you are going to be offered.

There is nothing worse than depositing money to a site to find out you can have feck all on.

Sites such as Pinnacle, 365, Lads, PP all have a readily available way of finding out what your max bet is.  At least they will tell you in advance if the answer is no.

It is to be hoped BF include such a basic feature on their new platform.

So has anybody manage a bet higher than a tenner with them yet?

Well I found a market on my sport for Leicester v Quins tomorrow in the Aviva Premiership final.  1.40 on Leicester to win the match and it was a total cat and mouse game before I was able to find out that my max bet would be around the £50 mark.

£50 on a 1.40 shot?  I'd get over twice that on my knackered old BlueSq account.

This crack trading team can't believe their luck in getting paid for this nonsense.  What a joke.

Sorry first attempt didn't seem to have posted so had to type out again to then find that it had.......