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nathan147
25 Feb 12 15:44
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Date Joined: 19 Nov 07
| Topic/replies: 419 | Blogger: nathan147's blog
I am able to identify horses that will trade shorter in running around 90-95% of the time...How can I best use this to profit???

First example is educated evans 3:40 chepstow. All bets will be at BSP...lets see how low this goes Mischief

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Replies: 46
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 15:44
*3:45 Chepstow that should read
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 15:47
how much shorter in running are you able to predict to 90-95% confidence levels 1 tick or 50% or more?
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 15:51
Bet at 5.6 and traded as low as 1.63 in running
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 15:51
getintheir...I will show some examples for the remaining races and take a look
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 15:54
3:55 ling Get Carter
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 15:58
Bet at 6.33 traded as low as 4.2 in running
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 16:00
think you need to work out how confident you are at getting varying % reductions in price then work out the most profitable % to play you lay price at.

are you willing to share your criteria for selecting?
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:03
Not willing to share anything at the moment get in there but if somebody could find a decent way of putting it into play then would be open to some form of partnership or something...
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 16:04
take it you have some trading software ie the geeks toy?
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:05
4:05 Fairy  Ninetieth minute
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:06
Yes I have the geeks toy but don't feel I am exploiting my find to its maximum potential at the moment...hence this thread
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:12
bet at 2.32 and went on to win the race
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 16:12
i would record each selection in a spreadsheet. then set up whether each selection wins at 10% , 15% , 20% etc reduction. record lowest IR price and determine if selection was successful. then record green up profit at each price if successful. total up wins and losses. then after many selection you should see which % reduction level you should be laying at.
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:15
That sounds like pretty decent advice getintheir...do you trade on here then?? and how many races would you say are needed before you can get these figures??? 1000 or more??
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 16:19
i do on greyhounds mainly. get 100 and then put into play with small money. try to model how much of a bad run you could take at your stakes. do you have an understanding of when you could cut your loses and trade out ? eg if prices doubles take the hit or would you let it ride?
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:20
4:20 Chepstow Handy Andy
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 16:20
all trading done pre race on greyhounds.
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:24
Bet at 5.68 and traded at 3.85
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:29
4:30 Ling Sand Skier
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:33
Bet at 5.59 and traded at 1.2
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 16:37
good start.. off out now!
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:41
Zardsky 4:40 Leopards
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:48
Bet at 7.6 and won
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:55
4:55 Cheps Lady Willa
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 16:59
Bet at 5.33 and won
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 17:05
5:05 Ling Baby Strange
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 17:07
Bet at 9.42 traded at 7.2
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 17:10
5:10 Newc Stagecoach Jasper
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 17:14
Bet at 5.42 and traded at 4.5
By:
getintheir
When: 25 Feb 12 17:26
The spreadsheet overtime will tell you what price reduction you are aiming at. if you are looking at 25% price reduction to lay at then the last 2 would have counted as losses.

If you set your price reduction too low then you may need to hit 90% to turn a profit. remember if you set at 20% reduction you will not get 20% profit as you are greening up what ever the result so you spreadsheet needs to work out how much you will be able to green up at each price reduction level.
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 17:30
5:30 Chepstow Bladoun
By:
nathan147
When: 25 Feb 12 17:35
bet at 12.0 traded at 1.41
By:
top2rated
When: 26 Feb 12 09:14
nathan147

If yesterday's races (excluding Irish) are anything to go by you'll have plenty to chose from as only 10 horses out of 261 runners traded at odds greater than their BSP, namely....

    EVENT_ID        MENU_HINT        EVENT_NAME        EVENT_DT        SELECTION_ID        SELECTION_NAME        BSP        IPMIN*   
    104968455        GB / Kemp 25th Feb        2m4f Nov Chs        25-02-2012 16:10        3364823        Zaynar        4.39        4.4   
    104963699        GB / Ling 25th Feb        5f Hcap        25-02-2012 17:05        1479451        Baby Strange        9.42        9.6   
    104963689        GB / Ling 25th Feb        6f Hcap        25-02-2012 14:15        4719303        Diamond Vine        9.82        12.5   
    104968457        GB / Kemp 25th Feb        2m5f Hcap Hrd        25-02-2012 16:45        4053932        Ultravox        12.44        12.5   
    104968486        GB / Newc 25th Feb        2m Nov Hrd        25-02-2012 16:00        5342429        Victor Hewgo        14.24        15   
    104968439        GB / Chep 25th Feb        2m Hcap Chs        25-02-2012 15:45        2810086        Super Formen        17        19   
    104963689        GB / Ling 25th Feb        6f Hcap        25-02-2012 14:15        4136655        Haadeeth        22.17        23   
    104963689        GB / Ling 25th Feb        6f Hcap        25-02-2012 14:15        3033507        Speak The Truth        20.36        24   
    104968484        GB / Newc 25th Feb        4m1f Hcap Chs        25-02-2012 15:25        2335779        Present Mlord        18.74        24   
    104968486        GB / Newc 25th Feb        2m Nov Hrd        25-02-2012 16:00        5869382        Kirkaig        263.79        300   


* IPMIN = Minimum price placed in-play (only bets of a payout of more than GBP100 included)


In other words, 251 out of 261 runners, that's 96.17%, traded shorter in running than their BSP.
By:
getintheir
When: 26 Feb 12 09:23
interesting. we would need to look at how much shorter they get ie percentage shortening by 25% etc.

Based on yesterdays small sample i guess the analysis would through up he shouldnt lay off in running at all or trade off between 95-100% price reduction as he has 3 winners 2 at fairly big prices.
By:
top2rated
When: 26 Feb 12 10:13
getintheir - I've been down this road before on a strikingly similar thread back in 2010. Grin

http://community.betfair.com/general_betting/go/thread/view/94082/26132649/found-something-how-best-to-use-it?pg=1
By:
TheVis
When: 26 Feb 12 10:41
This is the main problem.  As top2rated shows any fool, even me, could post a whole series of horses that will shorten up in running and I will get almost all of them correct.

So what do you do?  Trade each one out that you pick at 10% shorter, 50% shorter, 80%?  Of course each one that doesn't make your traget loses your full stake whereas those that do get there make you a small profit.  It's like backing a series of odds on shots.  Also leaving your lays up in-running to be taken you are almost certainly giving away some value over the long run to the fast picture players.

The theory is all very well, profiting from it it trickier than it may first seem.
By:
getintheir
When: 26 Feb 12 21:48
yes i get a feeling it won't be the last thread of this type.. not sure if I have been officially reeled in or not!

my suggestion was to keep a spreadsheet to keep record of where your biggest profits based on varying % reductions. after sufficient number of trades start laying at that reduction factor at small liabs.

Without the info as to the selection criteria we have no way of assessing the chances of some sort of real value being available, but at the moment it sounds doubtful..
By:
getintheir
When: 27 Feb 12 15:21
for uk win markets ip for 25 Feb 96.2% IP odds went below Sp. However only 74.3% dropped 10% below Sp , 64.4% 20% below Sp, 55% dropped 30% below SP and 45% below 40% of sp.

nathan can you beat any of those figures?
By:
nathan147
When: 27 Feb 12 18:49
The honest answer to that is I don't know getintheir!

Guess I will get that 100 or so selections under my belt and report back Confused
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