Forums

General Betting

There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 214 comments are related to the topic:
8% edge laying every single favorite horse

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
Page 3 of 6  •  Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 214
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 13:01
http://form.horseracing.betfair.com/horse-racing/010511/Hamilton_Park-GB-Ham/1505

Profit on race $21.67
$21.67 * 0.95 so $20.59 profit.
Commission equals $1.08
By:
LordBobbbin
When: 09 Sep 11 13:01
Beat, why are you trying to prove to everybody that your system works? Why would you ever give away this information?   It seems to work well on individual races, so I can't see why it wouldn't work in the other ways that you suggest, and I suspect your figures are well worked. I am a little mystified as to why you want everybody to know about it though?
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 13:04
Lord Bobbin,
I'm just trying to help, there's plenty in the pot for everyone.
Should this change, there are other strategies I use in conjunction which are run alongside, so even if every man and his dog do it, it won't really cost me.
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 13:05
Beat The OverRound,

Same results for me for the two races.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 13:07
CM,

Be very careful using the AUS SP data provided, before the 1st of June this year they also had non runners in the data and the prices are quite often wrong.
Also there are extra bets in there such as winning jockey, beaten lengths, etc etc etc.
By:
LordBobbbin
When: 09 Sep 11 13:11
That's very commendable Beat The OverRound.  The forum needs more people like you!
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 13:11
Let's extend our test: all races from 2011-08-01 until 2011-08-31

My result:
Races: 1246
Total P/L: -263.205068 euros
By:
Compound Magic
When: 09 Sep 11 13:14
BTO

I actually backed or laid every one of those 3112 runners, I take a snapshot with snip
of each race results so I know exactly what the BSP was, which is not the same as BSP
published prices. Some BSP may be published at say 23.10 but their calculation for my lay
might be 23.13
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 13:15
CM are these just Melbourne metro?
By:
Compound Magic
When: 09 Sep 11 13:27
Yes

I use gruss to update prices only, at the 4 minute mark I turn off updating, compare the prices at that point to my prices all prices more than mine I back bet, all prices equal to or less than my price I lay. Only exceptions to the rule is I back all odds on and lay all over 50.00.

The 4 minutes gives me time to place all bets with liabilities and back stake according to chance of each horse either winning the lay or winning the back bet.
By:
phillyharper
When: 09 Sep 11 13:31
Could this same principle work on greyhounds?
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 13:49
acornel,

Yes we are almost the same for august, I did all runners, not those under $10.00, so August was a slight loss for UK.
Under $10.00 was better.
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 13:54
Now, from the beginning of the year:

Races: 8952
Total P/L: -1763.010728 euros
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 13:54
Doesn't work on greyhounds, no liquidity means you are driving the price up.
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 13:56
Your system doesn't work for all runners (horses) for the same reason (no liquidity on higher odds) + minimum stake
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 14:05
Your 0.98c @ 1000/1 isn't going to affect the $2,000 waiting to be matched in any way.
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 09 Sep 11 14:18
Why would you lay all favourites when clearly some favourites are over-priced at some under, its using skill and race reading that makes the difference, looking at all data group as a whole will make no edge as markets are generally very accurate.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 14:52
The same reason a bookie lays the field rather than just the favourite on his board.
The market overround is more often over 100% than under betting SP.
Simple as that, that's where the edge is.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 15:03
acornel, I've been right through my SP data, and noticed a couple of problems with some deadheaters which may have skewed my data a bit, but the end result is close.

I have 8991 races for the year so far.
Laying all at SP to $100 liability the profit before commission is $7,694.28
There is $98,785.18 commissionable on races where there was a profit.

Assuming 5% commission -

$98,785.18 * 0.05 = $4,939.26 commission payable.

$7,694.28 - $4,939.26 = $2,755.02 profit per $100 liability for the year so far.

I have to rejig my data all the time to split my UK and AUS stuff and rework commission, but that's my final account laying all horses in the field UK and IRE only.

Even a 1% commission reduction means close to an extra $1000 profit per $100 liability.
Then of course, there's the extra bonus of going to less than $10.00.
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:03
Now, from the beginning of the year:

Races: 8952
Total P/L: -1763.010728 euros

BTOR, do you obtain the same thing?
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:05
As we have the same figures for August, could you please send me the Total P/L month by month so that we could identify where the gap is?

Let's take only the odds
By:
Slicer
When: 09 Sep 11 15:06
Someone's got it wrong here, BUT WHICH ONE??????
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:10
let's take only the odds < or equal to 10
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 15:13
Ah I did less than 10.00

Man I haven't worked this hard since 1987 [:o]

I'll post back month by month less than 10.00 before commission to see if we can pinpoint from there.

Hold a while I have to recode.....
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:15
What tool / language are you using for coding?
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:21
Here are my results

races  month    Total P/L (5% comm)
815    1     482.67
736    2    -932.51
876    3       3658.86
1107    4    -648.80
1332    5      -3408.67
1206    6     360.24
1277    7     445.54
1246    8    -263.20
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 15:28
Excel VBA, but I have to query my database and recreate commission and delete my "other" bets at SP and filter out my AUS bets as well.

Anyhow...

Jan 2011 $1,645.68 profit
Feb 2011 $  240.72 loss
Mar 2011 $6,007.60 profit
Apr 2011 $  756.16 profit
May 2011 $1,162.52 loss
Jun 2011 $  948.40 profit
Jul 2011 $2,794.79 profit
Aug 2011 $1,367.00 profit
Sep 2011 $  205.49 loss (to yesterday)

Total Profit before commission $11,910.89
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:32
Please post the figures comm included ...

For august August you said the net P/L is same as mine, right? ( ~ -250 euros)
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 15:37
That was for all runners not those under 10.00
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 15:38
Ok let me have another bash
By:
acornel
When: 09 Sep 11 15:41
It's important to accurately calculate the commission ... 1% difference in comm has a BIG impact in total P/L.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 16:02
Jan $  459.23 profit
Feb $1,206.81 loss
Mar $4,717.52 profit
Apr $  658.71 loss
May $2,849.70 loss
Jun $  616.53 loss
Jul $1,103.29 profit
Aug $  165.72 loss
Sep $  550.48 loss

Total $232.09
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 16:03
I calculated commission correctly at the full 5%.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 16:05
As you can see one is far better off laying the field if on the full 5% commission, you can only lay those under 10.00 if on a much reduced rate. Part of my changing to below 10.00 was to reduce premium charges, but of course you pay more commission.
By:
Slicer
When: 09 Sep 11 16:10
$232 for 9 months work eh!

Not quite the amounts previously referred to, or am I again confused?
By:
Slicer
When: 09 Sep 11 16:11
However if they are to $10 stakes, using $1000 might make it slightly more appetising.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 16:17
Slicer,

laying the field at SP to only $100 liability and allowing for full 5% commission is like this...
$2,755.02 profit per $100 liability for the year so far.

$1,000 liability is $27,550.20 profit if you're paying 5% commission.
By:
Beat The OverRound
When: 09 Sep 11 16:20
Point of interest even $10,000 liability is only $10 stake on 1000/1 runner.
By:
Slicer
When: 09 Sep 11 16:31
I would NOT lay the whole field if I was to do this, I would only lay those priced less than 10.

ARE YOU REALLY SURE YOUR FIGURES ARE CORRECT?????

Really cannot see it myself, but then I am very old now, worn out, with mashed potatoes for brains!
By:
DivideByZeroError
When: 09 Sep 11 16:31
Month    UK & Ireland
1     547.36
2    -1,068.54
3     4,717.53
4    -383.65
5    -2,292.92
6    -420.08
7     1,273.29
8     16.41
9    -550.48
   
Total     1,838.92

I did the calculations for UK and Ireland and get monthly figures that are not exactly the same as BTOR but highly correlated. Although 2011 has been profitable so far it's not difficult to imagine a bad month wiping that out. I drew a graph of the daily bank (assuming start with $100 and take $1 liability laying everything) and it looks pretty much like a random walk to me, apart from a recent positive trend in Ireland.

I tried to insert the graphs but the moderator has to approve the picture before I can post it. In the spirit of openness that BTOR shared the strategy I will post the VBA code I used to produce these results.
Page 3 of 6  •  Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
‹ back to topics
www.betfair.com