Impact of PC2

funkymonkey,

And worst of all, he doesn't even bet!

I have worked harder than most to stand up for betfair because I am sick of negative nonsense
from the same group that continually use the company forum to insult betfair
I want betfair to continue its good work and growth and look forward to paying any charges
they want from me as there worth every penny, i will not be going to any poor exchanges
as I believe in using the best and as for my 1000 posts well what ever I do in life
I try my best and hardest and this is what betfair are trying to do so we come from the same
mould.

Pathetic

Contrarian,

Yes, I agree, that is the worst aspect of all.

I was one of the few who didnt want to block him, because i felt everyone deserves a voice, no matter how much i may disagree with it.

But this little incident today is a new low.

If you hate the truth then block me, it will aid your denial

The best thing you can do is close this account and come back with a new forum name (or just change it yourself).

I love the fact that Betfair thought a nutjob spouting non sequiturs on the forum was the way forward on this issue.

With over 3 million customers how come its only the same 20-30 nutjobs that keep slagging betfair off
on this forum?

Give it up. It's over. You're embarrassing Betfair.

Anti betfair nut jobs list

1....the presidente
2....slartbartfast
3....inner city sumo
4....nairda
5....mr angry
6....duncan disordeli
7....weatherman2004

shame on you

If you cant stand the heat get out the kitchen, the purple fantasyland will settle your
un-pro bets for you

Love Betfair?
Bend Over.

I hope the city and the journalists are keeping an eye on these threads. What an absolute own goal.

Hey we have had some fun anyway, blings up a boring sunday[;)]

BFF is becoming as much a household name on betfair as the humble blue bottle, only not as welcome,
swat[smiley:crazy]

Why am I only at number 7?

I don't post much, but pretty much all of it is directed against you.

I demand to be higher.

5pm shift change....waiting for the new one to clock on....

Has Duncan actually been banned?

If Duncan has been banned, I'm never using this forum again.

i never been so happy in my life

Anti betfair nut jobs list

1....the presidente
2....slartbartfast
3....inner city sumo
4....nairda
5....mr angry
6....duncan disordeli
7....weatherman2004

Why am I only at number 7?

I don't post much, but pretty much all of it is directed against you.

I demand to be higher.


weatherman, it not what you say that counts, but how many times you post...BFF has made 1000 post 1 month

Mates,

Any way that those that spent the weekend elsewhere can know what was deleted (and showed the truth)?

br

Eddie the eagle
When: 21 Aug 11 12:45
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| Topic/replies: 4,109 | Blogger: Eddie the eagle's blog
I think anyone thinking Betfair want PC payers to go are wrong.
I think Betfair want them all to stay. They just want more of their earnings.
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By:

CLYDEBANK29
When: 21 Aug 11 12:53
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| Topic/replies: 1,788 | Blogger: CLYDEBANK29's blog
I disagree DD.  Liquidity providers are the most important customers on the exchange and I'd be confident Betfair recognise that.  They don't want them to leave (unless they are cheats and possibly courtsiders).  They based the charge on the premise that most won't leave because the exchange model facilitates a natural (BF) monopoly and that there was enough slack to be filled by those unaffected. 

Off out now.


To address the above, it's obvious to me that Betfair's most important customers are the large group of leisure punters, although on an account by account basis the liquidity providers will indeed come out at the top. Agree with Eddie that bf just want more of winners earnings.

Don't agree that real liquidity providers won't stay though. Some will leave obviously, but this charge has been calculated by Betfair in a way that answers the question "How can we charge as much as possible without a large increase in account closures that negates the increased income from charges".


Feck N. Eejit
When: 21 Aug 11 14:40
Joined:
Date Joined: 10 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 4,822 | Blogger: Feck N. Eejit's blog
As for the liquidity providers being the lifeblood of the exchange, well yes I know they are but I`ll bet my boots they aren`t coughing up 60% or 40% or whatever figure.

I'd bet the main liquidity providers are already paying 40%+ in normal commission. If they weren't the minimum pc2 rate would've been set at whatever level accommodated them. The bulk of horse racing liquidity is supplied by two main players (the Hong Kong mob and the big oz player). Betfair's attitude to other pc2 liquidity providers is probably that they're chasing the same value the big two are (I don't think that's always true - I'm certain it's not in my case) so it doesn't matter if they leave as the big 2 will just fill the gap. I think that's a mistake though as, unlike the Ferengi and the cheats, they can boost liquidity elsewhere and I also don't think it's a given that those paying pc's are the only ones affected by it.

My main problem with betfair is not so much with the level of the charges (if the exchange was government run I wouldn't have any problem at all charge wise) it's the fact they've dragged exchange betting into the city gutter.


I agree that the biggest liquidity providers are almost certainly already paying 40%+ of GP. I can't say I agree with the statement : "If they weren't the minimum pc2 rate would've been set at whatever level accommodated them." though.

No matter how important these liquidity providers are to Betfair, the same logic applies to them as to the rest of us smaller winners. Betfair can charge them up to the amount where it still makes sense for them to provide liquidity.

No matter how important these liquidity providers are to Betfair, the same logic applies to them as to the rest of us smaller winners. Betfair can charge them up to the amount where it still makes sense for them to provide liquidity.

But there would also be a crossover point where it would make sense for them to provide liquidity elsewhere. Avoiding that would imo be betfair's aim.

the 60% charge is clearly designed to shut down those clients, otherwise why not charge them 40% if this is deemed as being the safe point for betfair to keep liquidity.

I think the 50 & 60% rates recognise that those users don't have an alternative and could do no real damage if they did cross over. Shell and pea liquidity might be the exception but unless all of them to a man crossed over the remainder (or betfair themselves) would just take up the slack.

Hazel if you had at least half a business minded brain you would do the research and fully
understand that the following conditions are true and contrary to your stated belief.

condition 1 >>>There is no other sporting betting site that will offer the same liquidity in average markets to persistent winners.

condition 2 >>>The nearest equivalent exchanges liquidity is realistically not even 10% that of betfairs and cant match betfairs current volume of growth

condition 3 >>>Charging customers charges is to pay for a service that that particular
type of  customer receives from a company actually creates a bond to that customer fiscally
and in no way suggests them to stop making the superior profits they can only receive in this case from betfair.

It in noway implies to shut down winners.

condition 4 >>>At the current rate of growth payers of the pc2 charge will make the same amount of profit in 3 years time as before pc2 thus by paying charges to the company possible further enhancements, new customers, new offers will aid the company growth and liquidity.

condition 5 >>>Unless you are defeatist or inept you should be able to broaden your type of
betting and volumes to increase your profits to compensate for the charge.

All these points I have mentioned many times not because I am a betfair staff member which I am
not but because I have always been a Researching type of gambler thats has admired the betfair
exchange success story since its introduction and the charge doesn't directly effect me yet but
having researched greyhound racing and concluded that it is very lucrative It wont be a problem
offsetting the charge compared to any profit I have projected by researching horse racing, football
etc. The main obstacle only to winning on here is the amount of time and thought horse power available to use to construct an edge.

Charges should not prevent you from making the biggest profits
possible on any betting platform in the world.

All these points I have mentioned many times not because I am a betfair staff member which I am
not but because I have always been a Researching type of gambler thats has admired the betfair
exchange success story since its introduction and the charge doesn't directly effect me yet



If what you say is true, why wait all this time to post your views on almost every thread? Why didn't you start poting when PC1 was inroduced?

*posting.

*introduced. ffs

Charges should not prevent you from making the biggest profits
possible on any betting platform in the world.



Well what if that charge becomes 100%


I've thought from the first day BFF reared his head here in the height of the PC debate, that he works for BF, seriously why would anyone not associated with BF spend the time BFF does on here defending ánd campaigning for the PC?

In many of your comments you state information and terminology that clearly the average joe would have no idea about unless he worked for the company at a senior level????

So what psotion in BF do you hold cause its plain as day that you aren't just an average joe off the street.

Well Stewart thats a good question, I suppose i didn't then feel that pc1 was a major obstacle to making a profit and I suppose pc2 could be seen to be inhibitive to making profit more so but in my case though it may be different for others I cant use the duckpond as there liquidity on greyhound races is dire looking today £1,200 at 3 races which is equivalent to £400 at betfairs matched values due to there bias matching system , on betfair these races attracted £18,000/£15,000/£14,000 which is over 30 times the liquidity on offer than the duckpond, unless I intend to bet peanuts in which case I will never hit a pc2 charge I am much better off using betfair and paying them the charges and as for there new 1bet system how on earth can that stand up to persistent winners that could place profitable bets that might equal all the liquidity of the dog race, surely they will boot out persistent winners in the old bookmaker style of rejection

No offence meant but I don't think bffanatic holds down a regular job, let alone works for Betfair.

surely they will boot out persistent winners in the old bookmaker style of rejectionCry



No, they wont do that because they have a limit as to how much you can back on each horse, and they have the ability, no doubt, to hedge anything they don't like back into their own exchange.

I've no doubt Betfair will start a similar model in the near future. (IMO)

I was on the thread when the post was deleted. The non-sequiturs and botched forum name are deliberate to make it look that way Clydebank. Pretty desperate stuff. I hope he sticks around though, because it is some advert for Betfair. Rather than front up and have a proper Q+A and answer the numerous concerns all users have (not just PC2), they send in Comical Ali.

Hi gold coast investor, I am a researching pro gambler, been toying with computer programs on racing since the 1980s when I was first asked by a gambler to develop a simple horse racing form evaluation program on my spectrum, I had no idea what a bookmakers was or the true aspects of form where
but I did what he asked and he gave me the sun newspaper and everyday he wanted my tips, this diverted me from programming games software to the prospect of being a professional gambler but at such a young age and not knowing the real hard world of gambling I didn't realize the real learning curve.

It didnt stop me creating just after that a much better horse racing program that looked at the times of horse races based on the difference in time off the averge time figures from the then sporting life.Only used it twice though as it took 2-3 hours typing all the data in. My landlord who I gave the tips too replied in the last use of it, wow you gave me a 20/1 winner in a maiden race so I suppose that app was left in profit.

Having learned much since then in the nineties I developed a greyhound racing program having fell
oin love with studying there races and knowing a trainer in the past and his dogs, again that program which was over 1000 pages long and took 2 years required typing in 4 hours of form a day for 2 meetings, I couldn't mature the database at that work rate let alone use it.

So here I am now having returned to studying greyhound races and having used excel completely
as its a real beautiful piece of kit if you become proficient with it I am now looking forward
to betting soon and betfairs liquidity even after all charges is the only real place to bet.

As for my apparent rate of posting well I am like a machine when working and I can maintain
months of hard work let alone the odd 1000 posts[;)]

How does this new sportsbook work over there? and if betfair had one would it be subject to
premium charges, very interesting development

It's free for all to see.

I expect too see in duckponds t&c for 1bet the usual
"The company reserve the right to refuse business to any customer without explanation "
in there terms and conditions as its the unfair line thats in all bookmakers rules on the wall.

Bet to lose and not to win is its real message

Imagine if a stock market stated that we don't expect anyone to invest in anything longterm that
creates a profit, instead there you have to pay charges and then taxes as thats the real fair world
making a living in a fair way but fair doesn't mean you keep all the profits, all business persons
have to pay a lot before they can net there profits.

Rather than dealing in what you expect to see, why don't you paste over here what it actually says? Does it actually say what you said?

I said expect, open your eyes and please don't ask me to explain all words

good question though

Nothing short of utter pathetic that bf fantasist has been planted on the forum. The number of posts from him doesn't really matter as he is probably being paid to be on here (with our pc charges). The fact that the guy is illiterate doesnt help.

has your   "probably the most profitable greyhound prediction
system ever"
been delayed you said you would be betting in the next 1 to 2 weeks 3 weeks ago

So here I am now having returned to studying greyhound races and having used excel completely
as its a real beautiful piece of kit if you become proficient with it

If you can program to a decent level, why would you use Excel?!?

Well as soon as i learnt that you could copy and paste the race from many sources I had been using
and learning excel at the time as I was toying with using my amiga based program and converting
the ascii into block files that are interrupted into the format of GABE (greyhound academy bags edition) but using my amiga compared to my pc was looking pretty stupid as back in the nineties
my amiga was actually better at the job then the then 4 colour pcs, I then toyed around with excel
and realized that I could quickly imitate what a 50,000 line program on the amiga could do.

I have now managed to create an excel system that because of a bug in excel allows me to use
menus to then link other workbooks to a main workbook allowing via running multiple instances of excel
3 gig of workbooks looking at over 1200 races at a time over 50 pdp(profitable data profiles) made from 100 form works linked to 20,000,000 pieces of form data.

A good friend in the past who was an ex programmer laughed once when I said I was going to use
excel but now I can see it was the correct choice as when databases become bigger you can nest results and now I have over 100 gig of workbooks for thirteen top tracks!

My app still has the name GABE but is short for greyhound academy betfair edition having swapped
bookmaker for betfair[;)]

If I was to use it at the purple place on races that attract only effectively 400-500 quid in bets
I would feel like I am cheating myself out of what I want big profit, i could make more dodging in and out of bookmakers than there but thats really risky as bookmakers are connected now with all kinds of protection systems now.

For me I will use betfair liquidity at £13,000 to £18,000 thats 30 times the purple place so even after charges I will get a reward that fits my hard work and high expectations and I think most
pro punters knew betfair would have to address the millions that are fairly won before they get there
fair commission hits for what they need to survive, I would of liked to keep more but hey there after
glory as much as us[;)]

Hi gerbs, yes its delayed alot, been spending too much time on the forum and I have to look after
my 3 year old son as my girlfriends mum is very ill and she has to do most thing for her unpaid everyday, I did run a business a few years ago employing up to 5 people but when my son was born my friend thought it was a good idea to stop helping me and steal all my customers, I had to give up that business and made the decision to do what I have always wanted to do , make a profit from gambling.

I put my family first now and not in a rush to get rich as in life you have to put things into perspective, rather have long term success than instant greed that could belly up through lack of planning.

A good friend in the past who was an ex programmer laughed once when I said I was going to use
excel but now I can see it was the correct choice as when databases become bigger you can nest results and now I have over 100 gig of workbooks for thirteen top tracks!

I'm afraid I would have to agree with your friend. If you need to handle a lot of data, something like mySQL is far more efficient.

I do actually totally agree with you Contrarian, my brother is a freelance programmer and has pointed me towards mySQL also andI can see there are many benifits, my problem was that the data input was excel and the end product being excel as its compatible with gruss and other auto betting software I looked for a more direct route.

Had a hell of a lot of hurdles to handle in using excel and considered dropping it for a programming language but I found ways around it that were up to the job.I may condense the bulk of race data and port it to say visual basic to create a power-fuller survey app at some point but my main concern is building up race databases and actually using what I have now and embarking on app platform change would require another 4-5 month delay , cant justify that presently and will maintain excel development.

I do miss the power of a programming language though and excel has graced itself but shown its limitations frequently.

In hindsight I would of used excel for low level work and imput/output data demands and then used mySQL or vb for the number crunching but at the 95% completion stage it would be resourcefully negative for me to reset my development.

The biggest problem in using excel is that if you make a update or fix a bug you may need to change
and edit all workbooks concerned and in my case thats if a race fix, over 10,000 amendments thats
why I have intensely proofed worksheets at certain points of completion thresholds, altering a single
line in a programming language has been deeply missed

bf_fananatic - has Duncan Disorderli been banned?  Haven't seen him around since you deleted his post.

ttt for Duncan. (he's not banned)

ttt for Duncan. (he's not banned)

Just read this thanks Stewarty..no not banned..the forum is barely worth reading with that bf_lunatic running the asylum.

Anyone wondering what happened was that I posted a tongue in cheek post that sarcastically illustrated Bf`s new PC environment for prospective punters..nothing too dramatic in there..but I ended it with " regards, betfair"

Only a uniquely immature mind could possibly have thought I was portraying an official communication from the firm...and of course the plant filled the bill perfectly. He reported it to his gaffers and it was gone quicker than an in running bet placed on ATR`s pictures.

All it confirmed was that this person ..whoever he is..has an agenda to oppose serious discussion of the PC. I am vehemently against it, but anyone that knows me realises that I would never post anything that could be construed as dangerous or detrimental to BF.

Thanks for your concerns chaps...you`re stuck with me still alas..

has anyone confirme BFF works for BF?

keeps getting stated - but I have not seen him say it

well he is hardly likely to admit it is he ?

If he doesn`t he needs to seek help.

So you dont know weather he does or does not?

People probably just look at his "joined date" and think that it wouldn't make sense to spend that much time every day praising BF and the PC2 in particular if you're not getting paid for it. Therefor he must be a BF employee? Personally I find it extremely unlikely.

personally I just think he needs to seek help

I dont believe he is a BF employee. I think he is just a lonely attention seeker and it seems he has got his wish because on the one day he hasnt shown up to deliver his standard 50 posts of drivel, we are still talking about him.

Personally I couldnt care less if he is staff or not, its his constant trolling of potentially decent topics and then grassing up of respected members that is intolerable.

correct funkymonkey..he is unworthy of further attention and Magician of course I have no knowledge why is it worthy of your scrutiny ... ? he is a seed ...rest assured.

DD

I hope after 8 or 9 years on this forum, the one thing I have alwasys shown, is an interest in factual discussion.

so when people try to discredit BFF by saying he IS and employee - I get curios as to weather that is FACT or speculation

Granted BFF is not everyones cup of tea... and perhaps criticism of his "trolling" is warrabted - but if poeple criticised hm factually then that criticism would be much better recieved.

I personal find him very inteligent... and as such am veyr happy to trawl through his quirky posting nature for the interesting content.

but then again, I loved Adonis and Medemi perhaps more than anyone in the hisory of the forum, so perhaps it is me who is the nutcase

Back to your old propaganda tricks duncan, I am as much a gambler as the next person on here
only I have an objective and positive mind, perhaps it is this that scares you, boo

Bff - surely you are only as big a gambler as the next person if the next person has never had a bet either?

Thanks for the figures magician, I used them to create a sensible post like yours, I have pitched for better tv coverage and a radio service for greyhounds and results service as betfiar is letting the core sports down and letting the bookmakers via sis run the show, now if I worked for them I wouldn't be telling them where they are going wrong would I everyone

lol gerard, trying to get to grips with my greyhound figures but its bloody hard work, cant risk betting unless the edge is sharp enough to win the test of time[;)]

Sorry Magician you`ve let him out..I will no longer discuss this rather unique individual..

never had a bet on Betfair..a 1/4 of a million short of paying PC and an agenda as clear as crystal. He is unworthy of your attention.

This is fishing of a supremely high standard whichever way you look at it...albeit done quite articulately and that is why so many have taken the slightest bit of notice.

Go on bflunatic report me to your gaffers again..BETFAIR DO NOT WANT WINNERS ON THE SITE or else they wouldn`t tax them...only you could defend charging them up to 60% and keep a straight face...

goodbye.

Give over why would i report people for there right to complain, am fed up with pc2 perhaps
there are more important things that need changing on this site, possibly the charge might
be lowered in the future if there is an adverse effect in the next 12 months to overall liquidity
but what about other issues that need addressing, perhaps this forum wont help us in any positive
way as I wonder if we complain enough really about what customers want out of the service.

Check out the amounts of money in the BF and BD win markets for the 1630 at Leicester (talking about money on screen rather than the matched amount, which, as we all know is calculated differently).  First time I've seen the balance be so far in favour of purple.

Have you taken into account that BD melon up there matched figures as "money won" instead of
money staked as BF do any the amount of runners will increase the figure grossly, still be the bak end of the pantomime horse they need to pump up there behind to get any one to notice

If you READ my post you would see that I wasn't talking about MATCHED amounts.

FWIW, within minutes of my posting, similar amounts appeared on BF.  Someone responsible for both?

Could be a bit of seeding latalomne, but undeniably anyone can get accommodated pre race..in running a different story especially due to ATR.

Betfair remain unperturbed by those who have crossed the road apparently.
The company doesn`t care that can be the only conclusion.

Nevermind their PR person is working his socks off to stop the rot..

Latalomne - on Saturday there were races where purple had TWICE the matched amount at the off. We all know about the way they are calculated being different (Nobby will be along in a second to remind us anyway), but they always have been, and until the new charges still didn't come anywhere near BF figures. The times they are a changin'.....

I have noticed that BD markets are growing fast but there greyhound markets are a joke, but some markets look quite good

Perhaps they are banging there 1bet stakes into there exchange markets as people are always laying
all the time, this could be how figures are jumping but there is defo growth there

There is a case that purple`s method IS actually fairer.
how can a grand at 1.01 represent 2 grand turnover ?
If I lay a fifty at 21 then I have staked (or turned over £1000) in anyone`s language surely ? £1050 is the accurate `take imo.

BF`s figures inflated because of the hooverers imo.

BD are certainly in the race and BF have to be careful they don't overcharge themselves in the future
out of the race, market forces cant be ignored!

Latalomne Date Joined: 20 Jul 01
Add contact | Send message When: 23 Aug 11 16:27 Joined: Date Joined: 20 Jul 01 | Topic/replies: 1,053 | Blogger: Latalomne's blog
If you READ my post you would see that I wasn't talking about MATCHED amounts.

FWIW, within minutes of my posting, similar amounts appeared on BF.  Someone responsible for both?

very possible... and thier robot starts on BD earlier, for one of several possible reasons

Re comparing amounts matched, either could easily boost their figures with ping-pong money but if you think neither of them indulge in this practice then betfair's figures will likely contain a lot more user ping-pong money than betd@q's.

Prior to the last couple of weeks I'd not actually paid much attention to the amounts being traded on the horses over there, but from what I've seen this afternoon, there's no logical reason at all why anyone - lack of brand recognition aside - shouldn't be playing horse racing win markets over there rather than here.

Pre race I agree - IR will take longer.

A fair distinction, yes.

There's little doubt purple liquidity has increased. Never thought I'd see the day I'd be getting 5 figure take outs over there.

I hope it`s not you that I`m matching Feck...[:(][;)]

I actually had two fivers here today, my first bets since PC2 was thrust upon the clientele, mainly cos the other place had reformed the market rather late due to a non runner though. Otherwise would be proud to say I still hadnt had a bet since!

As I said before though doing far far better than for a long while so the stuff about big fish fighting it out elsewhere is largely a red herring I feel, pardon the pun lol.

If it was Duncan you probably owe me a drink.

Feck N. Eejit
Feck N. Eejit
23 Aug 11 18:13
Joined:
10 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 4,840 | Blogger: Feck N. Eejit's blog
There's little doubt purple liquidity has increased. Never thought I'd see the day I'd be getting 5 figure take outs over there.


And it will continue to increase Feck if punters like yourself give it a try. They get 90% of my buisness when I'm punting and I've even got bigger odds there than here on many occasion.

By your post, I take it you're fully atuomated now?

I hope after 8 or 9 years on this forum, the one thing I have alwasys shown, is an interest in factual discussion.

so when people try to discredit BFF by saying he IS and employee - I get curios as to weather that is FACT or speculation

Granted BFF is not everyones cup of tea... and perhaps criticism of his "trolling" is warrabted - but if poeple criticised hm factually then that criticism would be much better recieved.

I personal find him very inteligent... and as such am veyr happy to trawl through his quirky posting nature for the interesting content.

but then again, I loved Adonis and Medemi perhaps more than anyone in the hisory of the forum, so perhaps it is me who is the nutcase

bf_fananatic joined july 17th 2011.

bf_fananatic repleis 1050, all on PC 2 or about how great betfair is

bf_fananatic says he bets on greyhound racing..yet he has never post anything in Grayhound or i any other

DD had a post removed very fast after receiving a warning from bf_fananatic about posting nonfactual betfair info

bf_fananatic joined july 17th 2011.

bf_fananatic repleis 1050, all on PC 2 or about how great betfair is

bf_fananatic says he bets on greyhound racing..yet he has never post anything in Grayhound or i any other

DD had a post removed very fast after receiving a warning from bf_fananatic about posting nonfactual betfair info

i did see a post i think by bf fananatic in the greyhound section, was on the walthamstow stadium thread or l+q or something like that.

i nearly choked....as he was objecting to some sort of government tax which i thought funny at the time.

bf_fananatic
31 Jul 11 03:23
Joined:
17 Jul 11
| Topic/replies: 1,050 | Blogger: bf_fananatic's blog
property developers driven by inner city land prices and greed "strong arming "other community and recreation land and facilities from out of the publics domain is an all too common occurrence these days, that they can manage it with tax payers money comes as no surprise, that we let them get away with it, is too our greater loss!

bf_fananatic says he bets on greyhound racing..yet he has only posted 1 time Greyhound topics

By your post, I take it you're fully atuomated now?

Not yet stewarty. I'm having the odd day betting and the odd day coding.

this  is so low    i am feeling down