General Betting
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21 Jul 11
13:06
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Date Joined:
17 Jul 11
I have estimated form the figures released that betfair may of paid out as much or more than £375,000,000 to the top winners on betfair in the last 6-8 years as the company as grown so has there winnings, and as technology increases with tradders, prediction models and autobots, the amount taken out each year is probably increasing greater then the growth of betfair sporting markets aside all this payout from the revenues betfair is paying ever increasing amounts to attract new customers and power new growth.
to me given the figures and the effect is it not fair to say to the top earners, yes betfair is the best place on the planet for betting winners but now you should pay some rent because you are taking over the hotel!
to me given the figures and the effect is it not fair to say to the top earners, yes betfair is the best place on the planet for betting winners but now you should pay some rent because you are taking over the hotel!
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Replies: 198
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makes economic sense, if successfull people are cleaning up all the new money all the time, that money is going to run out, and betfairs share would dwindle fast, this has to be a big part of taxing the big sharks. once they get the winnings, they never lose it back. my humble op
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true roadrunner, it cant be measure betfair are happy to put in place because of the recoil from the customers, but it something they must have been forced into putting into effect to sure up there revenues and release some marginal profits for the upkeep and growth of the company or even top keep an even keel, if betfair did do some pr work on the reasons it wouldnt be good for them, it may ease customer tensions but from an investors viewpoint and the taxman knowing the extent of the winners rewards it would probably be best to just implement it quieltly.
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back in the USSR
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Losers keep going back to ladcrooks, Korals, Hills, etc, etc.
They'll only stop coming back here if there is a lack of money in the market they want to bet on. Only time will tell whether the PC will reduce liquidity. |
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Why do you continually put up repetitive threads that, in the main, essentially cover the same subject?
If you follow the markets on here you can see liquidity is down across the board this week. |
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mind you introducing quietly is quiet funny against all the talk about it lol
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What about traders/market makers on financial exchanges. Do you think that all of them combined don't make vast multiples of what the exchanges themselves make? It's the natural state that arises in a competitive market place. There is no competitive market place for betting exchanges (yet).
As to this statement: the amount taken out each year is probably increasing greater then the growth of betfair sporting markets It has gotten more difficult, not easier to make money on Betfair over the years. My own profits have grown year on year, due to having more capital, more experience/skill and spending more time on it. As winners compete, they will drive margins down. I had a (close to) 20% ROI in 2007 and a 0.16% ROI in the first half of 2011. I make more, but also provide so much more liquidity. I believe that it will get more and more difficult for small winners to compete and that profits will be concentrated more and more in the hands of a smaller group of people. Overall though, I would be confident in placing a large wager that the overal profit of all winners combined will dwindle relative to turnover, despite the fact that many large winners will see GP grow. Having started on here in 2006, I have a big edge over people starting out now. Similarly, those that started in 2000 and were successfull have an even bigger edge over me, as they could make a lot of money relatively easily and pay low costs to boot. |
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Betfair haven't paid out anything...it's other peoples money not theirs!
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bf_fananatic doesn't understand the exchange model marky.
We established that fact yesterday. He also doesn't realise that the new money/customers betfair want to attract currently punt in the bookies. |
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sparky, once your money goes into your betfair account its there money, all trade is done with an exchange, money in this case ,only what you withdraw is actually then yours, otherwise there would be no need for accounts, if it is all yours or customers then go and get it, getting charged according to your effect and heavy usuage of the site seems "fair" to me
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betfairs exchange model does not invite mugs, to do so who refect bad upon the product
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Where do you think the cutomers/new money betfair wants to attract currently bet?
Why do you think betfair started arcades/slots/virtual racing? |
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thats betfairs problem 500 or so are certainly not mugs, betfair has to deal with them and the effect they have on revenues, no-one else will bar another exchange
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people actually have fun playing those products they are games, you cant say every game player is a mug, a guy that walks into a bookies and puts all his income on a short priced horse that was once good, hasnt run for 7 months , iss carrying a lot of condition with a poor jockey on it, in a large field of unexposed horses is a mug, bookies love em
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So in effect you're saying betfair doesn't want winners it only wants 'mug money' that keeps getting recycled and that they can keep skimming with their x matching bot and eventually take everything left in commission? Is that correct? Remember the original PC targets small winners who operate in a fairly efficient manner not millionaires.
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This guy has to be on a wind up....I can't take anyone seriously who can't spell their own forum name.
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i think betfair want all types of players, they dont want to lose the big winners, just have some control on the huge amounts they are taking out of revenues, to say they want mugs is very negative as clearly they are going to make a good buck out of winners , remember also that if sporting markets have peaked or waing due to lack of new money, then the ratio of income to the revenue will be dropping against the ever increasing burden of winnings going out, this when running a marginal business needs correction but not elimination of big profit winners!
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Bring back pythia
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Buzzer, I was a successful bookie for 25 years, and can say without contradiction that the only money to be won in any wagering venture is the 'mug money'.
Betfair is saying with the PC that the non-mugs are too good, they are taking the money out of the system before it can cycle enough times to meet their expected win rate per dollar attracted. |
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Betfair have, effectively, closed down plenty of big winners. I'll ask you again where do you think this new money is going to come from, who are betfair attempting to get to play on here? They don't want anyone who's going to win because the, original, PC means that you're not going to get better prices on here even over the medium term, I know you don't understand that but it is a fact.
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That was to bf fanantic by the way.
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thank you make me fly, my friend also had a bookmakers and he went bust, too many payouts and overhead costs, at the end of the day betfair are a business and if they let the companies revenues all drain away and go belly up, most betfair customers would think differently about the pc in retrospect.
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buzzer if you mean that the premium charge effectively gives you better odds at bookmakers this can only be if you are an occasional winner as regular winners will not be permitted long term at any bookmakers they cant tolerate losses, betfair are being fair by reducing losses and not banning the millionaires that earn huge tax free money here!
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Make me fly has stated betfair need the mug money, they need to attract more mug money from people who currently bet at the bookies which is what i've been saying all along. The point is even though the vast majority of gamblers lose they aspire to be winners and the negative publicity from the premium charges will put them off the product even if they will never be affected by it, that is the whole point.
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bf_fantastic, the problem with what Betfair are doing is that they are about to capture a bettor like myself in the net. Although i've won the money, i'm not actually a big bettor, just been on one of those great runs all punters find from time to time.
Whatever the problem, the solution shouldnt be capturing bettors like myself. |
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buzzer, you have a good point, this premium charge is a bit of a gamble on there part as it does hit at there winners welcome ethos, all I am trying to do is say that its not just a profit making exercise but a needed business move, to assume that all new potential customers will
(1) know what the charge is (2) know who it effects (3) assume it may effect them (4) assume they will earn over a quarter of a million puttin a few ton in an account. ......will stop them from joining a site that offers the best prices around for back and lay and does indeed house a large group of rich bettors is also a huge outside price! give you 66/1 |
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You have to take into account the original PC too which hits a lot of comparable small time players.
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perhaps the original charge did hit alot of small bettors but such a low rate of pc over a large group has meant that the group has increased back the yearly loss to revenues by the bettors involved adapting there profits to compensate the charge, after all small players surely can raise there stakes 20% to gain the same amount of profits!
I wonder just what the figures are for the first group of premium charge payers at 20% are compared to the new higher 60% group as there could of been room for some better deal for the lower preemium charge payers set against the money saved from the new payers, surely this would of made alot of people more happy! |
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after all small players surely can raise there stakes 20% to gain the same amount of profits!
and who ends up paying this extra 20%? the mug punters........so 20% more money comes out of the exchange at a 20% faster rate.....and the pc is to do what?......help replace the mug money.......doh! |
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your comment makes little sense, perhaps you can explain better?
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ok, the pc is supposed to be a charge that betfair will use to replace money taken out of the exchange by winners.
you are saying that pc payers on 20% should increase their stakes by 20% to cover the cost of the pc. this means that pc payers are now taking an extra 20% out of the market with each winning bet. who is providing this extra 20%? the losers. so the losers therefore are being eaten up at a 20% quicker rate than with no 20% pc. |
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or to be a little more scientific -
a dog - it's tail - dog chases tail - pc2 = bigger dog |
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I hope they're paying you overtime bf_fananatic , only been registered for 4 days and you haven't paused for a breath yet
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your comments and the implication are based on some unlikely facts.
1.....that i said the first pc payers should now raise there stakes 20% when i was referring that post the firat pc introduction the payer will of tried to offset the charge via there liquidity to markets. 2.....you assume that only losers pay for winners in a manner that the more the winners win all-round is taken directly from the loser in some strange direct fashion. any losers that are constantly losing should address there own dealings before looking to blame other groups for there misfortunes. |
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oh joe if i was on the payroll which i am not, they wouldnt be able to pay me enough to handle all these threads, i have a headache with it all lol
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you assume that only losers pay for winners in a manner that the more the winners win all-round is taken directly from the loser in some strange direct fashion.
so where does the winnings come from? |
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if your trying to imply that winners shoudnt win then why do you bet?
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you assume that only losers pay for winners in a manner that the more the winners win all-round is taken directly from the loser in some strange direct fashion.
bff, that was your statement. my question in reply is - so where does the winnings come from? |
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from the revenues of the company via money deposited
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