General Betting
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 198 comments are related to the topic:
betfair is still the home of big winners, only now they have to pay there rent
betfair is still the home of big winners, only now they have to pay there rent
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 198
|
By:
true, and them along with all the other betting companies might face a tough new change in the tax laws, taxation at point of consumption meaning all moves to Malta and Gibraltar were only good for working on a tan! the government has its own premium charge agenda!
|
|
By:
Are you also implying that it's ok to raise taxes significantly on those who can't move or take their buisniss abroad , while not raising taxes for those who can ?
|
|
By:
eddie are you reading things that arent in my posts, fed up with the
"i talk to little green men" brigade, pack it in[>o] |
|
By:
I just asked you a question, which you didn't answer.
|
|
By:
oh dear me, you got me, I must be evasive then, oh dear I have been caught out, silly me
|
|
By:
my belly button goes in!
|
|
By:
sparky, once your money goes into your betfair account its there money
who said this bff? |
|
By:
It's so nice to be charged only 2.5 percent for winnings over the weekend
|
|
By:
if successfull people are cleaning up all the new money all the time, that money is going to run out, and betfairs share would dwindle fast, this has to be a big part of taxing the big sharks.
Economically this would be correct....in any other industry but gambling. Gambling industry is recession proof and has child relationships. In times of recession, big hitters are replaced with many more desperate monies. Loans fund the needy til it runs out and then is replaced by the next wave of gamblers. There will always be punters to replace those punters lost. People might bet less, but there are many more of them. In fruitful times, the desperates are replaced by the big hitters again, and so it goes for the last few hundred years. |
|
By:
if successfull people are cleaning up all the new money all the time, that money is going to run out, and betfairs share would dwindle fast, this has to be a big part of taxing the big sharks.
Economically this would be correct....in any other industry but gambling. Gambling industry is recession proof and has child relationships. In times of recession, big hitters are replaced with many more desperate monies. Loans fund the needy til it runs out and then is replaced by the next wave of gamblers. There will always be punters to replace those punters lost. People might bet less, but there are many more of them. In fruitful times, the desperates are replaced by the big hitters again, and so it goes for the last few hundred years. |
|
By:
Gambling industry is recession proof what a load of cods wallop, no business is recession proof and all leisure industries suffer when there is less money in peoples pockets, what have you been smoking, have you not heard all the pleas of hardship from horse racing and greyhound tracks and the racing world in general, it effects everybody, book yourself in for a reality check today
|
|
By:
The racing world is in decline, recession or not ?
Is football betting turnover down? Tennis betting turnover down ? |
|
By:
bf_fananatic, there are businesses that are not only recession proof, but actually make more in times of recession.
Racing is in decline. |
|
By:
people are betting on different sports yes as this is a growing area but generally most betting on racing is down, thats called expanding your markets, but betting on racing is down.
regarding track-side attendances, these have been going down since 1930s as more forms of leisure have come into existence, the humble local pub has gone the same way as peoples choices and traditions have changed, you can stay at home now and instead of watching the clock on the wall you can watch 1000s of tv channels from around the world or go on the information highway! But realistically if the general public has less money than they have less to spend weather it gets spent in one place or another. |
|
By:
would agree that some businesses actually do better off in a recession, I worked for a security firm and a recession meant more crime and more security needed !
|
|
By:
The public doesn't have less money to spend, the BoE is seeing to that thank you very much.
|
|
By:
Fooball and tennis are on the up, racing is down 5%-6% in bookies, machines in hs bookies are up 13%,poker has peaked and is a saturated market, bingo is actually very much in demand for women as its the number 2 betting spend for them next to lottery, wish betfair would hurry up and launch it instead of pumping 10 mill into lmax which is really a waste in my opinion!
Sports books are becoming popular and could be extra revenue for betfair but with pc2 it would counter against them for obvious reasons unless you have a separate account for books which would have to be the case and then legality issues may require another site with name change, would be interesting to know how this idea is developing but I don't have that sort of information although some would tell you I work for betfair, I take that as a compliment actually  |
|
By:
just like to remind everyone that I the creator of this post is not an employee of betfair, just a normal guy that respects things for what they really are and likes to speak the truth against greed based customer posts and threads.
I am just an average Joe,I do stick up for those that cannot speak or answer back, today I picked a dying dog up off the road while everyone else just looked and tried to get help and I donated to east African aid, not much I don't have much but at least I try, what have you done today apart from moaned about paying a charge that might alter your greedy ego[:(] |
|
By:
Some of the 60% PC reasons don't add up to me:
Betfair wants to keep the "money" in the markets, but by penalising the winners, they will eventually all leave; therefore removing a hell of a lot more money than was being removed by them via withdrawals. Liquidity will only continue to decline (as has been happening already). The other issue is once you reach £250,000 (AU $371,000) in lifetime profits, then you attract the charge. So, say in 5 years (if BF is still around), many more people will be on the PC2 charge as that figure is not very high at all to achieve over a long-term period. Even small-time winners could accumulate a lifetime of winnings close to that amount within a 5-10 year period. It is not worth using BF if you are giving away 60% of your winnings. Are they forgetting that these "winners" actually provide a great portion of liquidity into the markets? Regardless of how much they win or take-out as they continue pouring money into the markets anyway. Without all the big earners on here, we won't see the huge spikes in-running that are often seen (and enjoyed) such as horses going 1000-1 in-running and then going on to win - even if SP was evens. |
|
By:
Ok lets look at how the exchange model works first properly before I answer your claims bobman84
1....Bettors bet on 2 sides of an outcome for a runner,player,team or x event 2....The margins are much tighter than a bookmaker who eliminate loss before hand by an over-round that is quite high. 3....Money comes into the site via active accounts, and into events via bets. 4....Money comes out of the system via active accounts and event outcomes. 5....New money or customers come into betfair via advertising, advertising comes out of profits. 6....Profits come out of charges made via commissions that are perceived low to RAISE your chances of making a profit. 7....Betfairs exchange model is classed as a marginal profit business type as vis commission charges only 2% is very low compared to gross 25% for high street bookmakers say. 8....Betfairs ability to compete, advertise,expand, finance new products, recruit staff etc has to come out of its small commission charge. Anyone reading thus far with a good head for understanding how betfair works will be thinking there is a huge overhead in providing a good platform for users on such a small margin! Next, what changes has Betfair had to apply and why to sustain this model and its growth! 1....Look for private investment as there is a need to power all operations fiscally beyond the budget of organic profit, this is what all businesses have to do in formative years(growth) 2....Look to protect revenues from the disciplines that encourage winning customers 3....Introduce a premium charge in 2008 to fight the bots, traders , bookmakers that continually win virtue of the exchange betting advantage systems. 4....Introduce a pc 2 charge to put a brake on the big 500 or so that make and take millions continually from revenues and off losing customers. 5....Introduce shares to help bring in investment. 6....Upgrade the infra-structure to accommodate growth, address tax burdens, research,develop and launch new products. I could go on, and on, and on but I got a great idea, if you have loved what betfair has achieved and done so far for the betting community then at least give them some credit and support and have faith in them for they have tried there best and continue to perform well. ok Bob in answer to your claims 1....Betfair do not want to penalize winners just charge a rate to them that reflects what betfair does for them bringing the millions of pounds in via there success running the company and paying for new customers, Betfair still encourage winners to the exchange! 2....If all or many customers are going to hit this £250,000 as you so wildly claim then how would this be sustainable, the exchange would collapse, would that be good the biggest and best exchange collapsing, then hail the pc charge for its future proofing of system! 3....How can it be not worth using betfair when all pro-punters know betfairs liquidity is actually 10 times at least there nearest rival , (60% of 10 x other site)is better than (100% of the other site) if you understand any maths at all! 4....Your complaint about in running odds variation is something that will occur in a real-time second by second risk basis, if you cant hadle the data play a slower risk-chance altering model. |
|
By:
Gotta hit the cocktail cabinet before I start to read and try to absorb that monster post.
|
|
By:
I'd need to finish it [:o]
|
|
By:
I know fafh its inspired, I can see people now getting the"he works for betfair " mud ready for throwing, but I dont care , hardly anyone(except a few like you) give betfair any credit for what they have achieved or they are trying to do and its not"fair", just people moaning about there self love affair with personal gain(greed)
|
|
By:
How is your forum name pronounced, bff?
|
|
By:
bf_fanatic my eyes get tired sometimes and it was a mis-spelling.
|
|
By:
Shame, I hoped 'fanana' rhymed with banana
|
|
By:
wishful thinking cat
 |
|
By:
Thanks for your reply, bff.
I do see the good side but just remember the only greed happening here is from Betfair and not from winning punters. I think 20% was a fair compromise for a premium charge, but a sudden rise to 60% is definitely not a smart move. Now, the other issues here are Betfair's Customer Service is not up to scratch. There are numerous site issues which have not been addressed (even after years of complaints). New updates are always brought out but the original issues are never fixed. I see both good and bad!  |
|
By:
regarding the 60% level of charge it may seem harsh but then getting to keep %40 of a telephone number in winnings ain't bad as its all good cash[;)]
seriously I thought it was harsh at first but it has to be 60% for very good reasons I have concluded! Its like this betfair or any exchange make an incy whincy profit on a winning bet that has to be tiny to enable bettors the chance of using a betting model that can give them profits were a bookmaker at battered odds could not. Now this commission charge can be as low as 2% which sharpens up any edge a good bettor can find but therein lies the problem, its so small that its never going to power a betting giant like betfair for long so just like bookmakers and other business like banks they rely on the money to keep circulating round and round to keep the pennies and pounds coming in. Then when you have a model that makes money for betfair and its customers a new problem surfaces Trading bots, manipulating the pricing mechanisms and other customer type that make very big profits out of the system, this money then gets withdrawn quickly so the more money betfair attracts into the exchange, millions gets creamed off by the pro punters that betfair encouraged! So now what do you do if your betfair, you cant afford to let the money drain away and run the business properly when your incy whincy commision charges aren't getting applied to the big winners profits that shoot out the system at ever greater and bigger rates! So if you were betfair what would you do, scrap the exchange model and give up? eureka the premium charge, it adjusts the level that money floats out of the system, it allows you to bet and win, but it keeps the fluidity of money solid otherwise so far down the line it could go terribly wrong and that would be bad for all us that love betfair and the company, If your just interested in getting a massive uncharged chunk of money then you could play the lottery but only betfair gives you the edge to actually win on regular basis not at 12 million to one but with a good trade say 100% win rate, now that cant be bad can it [;)] |
|
By:
have a look at my thread that i just posted, its an idea to replace the premium charge it could work and have a look but it would need support, it could be the answer to all our problems
|
|
By:
Gambling industry is recession proof what a load of cods wallop, no business is recession proof and all leisure industries suffer when there is less money in peoples pockets, what have you been smoking, have you not heard all the pleas of hardship from horse racing and greyhound tracks and the racing world in general, it effects everybody, book yourself in for a reality check today
There is knowledge and then there is reality. One man's reality is different to another's, but knowledge is knowledge. Wisdom is the ability to make that knowledge a reality. A business lesson. A history lesson. An economics lesson. What is the oldest profession in the world? What is the second oldest profession in the world? Both are recession proof. While an industry may be in decline, that has nothing to do with gambling, it is to do with marketing, technical advances and corporate mismanagement. What they happen to do at Chepstow or how much money they made at Limerick, has nothing to do with how much money is turned over on a race off-course. |
|
By:
Beat the over-round there is strong proof that your right as I assumed that sports markets are in decline but not on betfair! they are in some bookmakers as there quarterly figures show so why the difference in performance but I will have to agree with you on this one as your estimation seems more credible than mine so I apologize for the mistake!
It could be that some sports are suffering because of less sponsorship because of the recession but clearly gambling is doing quite well! |
|
By:
What is the second oldest profession in the world?
I didn't know the answer to this so I googled it and apparently it's politics. I did like this quote by Ronald Reagan though. "It's been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." |
|
By:
Thats a brilliant quote, like it loads, gambling must be high on the list as games go back thousands of years and bets were placed on the Olympics, chariot racing, etc, its also mentioned in the bible about games played for money involving chance!
|
|
By:
Actually, it goes back to biblical times.
The oldest profession was lady of the night. The second oldest profession is gambling related. Although "the second oldest profession" is often used as a throw away line for many professions, it means the profession is old, but not...."that profession". From the days of the gladiators, they bet with bookies on the outcome of events which is why there was so much prestige and people got into a frenzy over harder and harder arena games. |
|
By:
Dont forget that there was betting on more civilized sports long before the gladiators
and profit from barbaric forms of symbolic imperial power are not to be encouraged[;)] |
|
By:
Does that include election betting?
|
|
By:
No, betting on that is fine!
|
|
By:
I will seed my own threads rather than have silly ones at the top
|