Well, i guess you need a certain self interest to become successful at anything ...i mean even from Primary school age ,but i get your gist .
Gamblers are probably high up on the 'me'  list , but then it's like rich folk in their exclusive neighborhoods ...the only time you see them protest is when there are plans  for a nearby toxic waste site or  Pikey park

Yes FAFH, it is about self interest of course.
The developments with PC are definitely go against the interests of all punters though, even if they don't realise it.

For one thing, if there was no PC, Betfair would be heavily motivated to get as close as possible to a level playing field, and stop systematic (and what many would consider unfair) exploitation of loopholes and built in inefficiencies of the exchange.

Now Betfair stands to profit heavily from these 'flaws' in the exchange, so they will be a lot less likely to correct them -> not good for punters.

Callataxi

I don't defend what you do - but I do defend your right to do it.

Big difference.

Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our  bets between us at better prices. Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices. So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck. Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.

JTG has to be on the wind up, nobody could write such a total pile of cobblers and actually believe it, surely?

Turtle/Rocket
Whilst like you I essentially question this particular point of JTG's in a practical sense, maybe he is just saying that like in any and all other activities, basic supply and demand technically sets the prices at the end of the day.

Same time as normal for tomorrow then I trust

Johnny The Guesser
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
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When: 12 Jul 11 21:22
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OK,

Let's kick this on a bit.

Most of you have just pointed out the benefits to YOU of being a full timer but this isn't what we are talking about.

The question is - How do you ,in your role as a full time trader, benefit the world beyond your front door?

Of course the answer I was expecting (and got in places) was   "gambling is a leisure industry and we provide entertainment by matching bets"

BUT - I even dispute that.

Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our  bets between us at better prices.

Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices.

So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck.

Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.


Given that there are winners, it's obviously better for leisure punters if they are competing with each other to take as little as possible value for themselves. You could argue that if all these winners weren't there, the remaining punters would on average be getting better value, which is true.

However, what would happen in this case is that a subset of these leisure punters would be better than the rest, and a small group would start to rake in profits, much in the same way that the current group of winners do. Some of these would make more than they do in their job, and set up full time. However, as these new winners aren't as good as the old ones (which is why they're only making money after the previous winners have been removed), they won't be able to price up as tightly, so the exchange won't function as well as it does.

Markets are rarely efficient. When they are, someone is getting paid to keep them there.

I read a line recently in a book.
It was applied to journalis but, I thought at the time, maybe it appropiately explains why many of the committed exchange type gamblers are so obviously currently upset.
" They start off as idealists and then they become pragmatists and finally pessimists ".

I agree that leisure punters can bet amongst themselves on systems where there is a big takeout and it doesnt really matter, theres already the Tote system which is a form of this, and the punters are not really that price sensitive anyhow so will pretty much take whats going.

I wouldnt imagine prices would be better on here or that any losing punters would suddenly become successful. BF would probably just act more the bookmaker instead of the exchange.

But thats not much use to those who want a pure exchange and are serious about long term profits.

Re what service people who bet are providing, alot have been put in a position of being made redundant with their own qualifications pretty much nullified by modern technology and hence this seemed the best of a pretty poor barrel of options, unless someone wants their toilet cleaned, but hardly a great public service to provide.

What time do you want me to pop around with my Domestos and toilet cleaning flannel Johnny?? Surely it is helpful that people who bet are not living off the State like many hundreds of others have or choose to do anyhow and the employment figures are kept down, so that is beneficial.

OK JOhnny I ask you this you know you can win more money through betting than you could through some humdrum job you dont enjoy and pays a pittance working long hours.

You genuinely enjoy the process of betting and the calculations/potential rewards that go with it, why would you choose the bog cleaning position and make yourself miserable, or would you just do it for the benefit of that person having a clean toilet every day being such a great provider of service to the community that you are?

yeh past 5 yrs or so, ive been able to spend far more time with family and friends

and enjoy my pastimes of golf and tennis plus watching my favourite sport, not

having to worry about asking for time off etc or being answerable to any boss.

im sure that i  want to go and do some mundane job, hating every minute and not being

able to do even a quarter of the things ive been able to do, just to create some

wealth for the country!!

im quite prepared to take a hit with my future income, and still do battle

with other WILLING users on whatever site i happen to be on, be it poker, purple

or here.

judging by some peoples posts on here, you would think people just happened to

stumble onto this site and somehow registerred and deposited money and then lost

without their team/player having any realistic chance of winning.

god forbid it could possibly be that we might just get more right than said losing

punters, rather than we just rip em right off!!

The winner should get it all pmbets imo, otherwise we are being conditioned otherwise. OK there was once a tax of 9% but that has gone, since then I expect to keep all my winnings all the time I'm afraid.

As no doubt there will be losers along the way too. The idea is to make a profit not have someone steal the money just for providing the platform. Unacceptable.

Interesting the Racing Post editor suggested that BF should only charge bot operators rather than everyone who is over their perceived threshold so he must see some kind of injustice clearly as most do.