General Betting
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
unless im mistaken ive played poker live with you a few times jtg and had an occasionnal chat, but i never
got the impression that secretly you were very miffed with how i made my living through gambling.
ever since the pc 1st came in, you were almost the 1st on the case to post up threads about how we should all
be living in the real world and pay taxes etc and stop being greedy.
im certainly not greedy and have won my money on here through slow pics, no bots and just using a bit
of knowledge of sports and odds in play.
i have had many jobs in past before i became full time on here and paid taxes for over 20 years.
not exactly anyones fault that there isnt taxation on gambling for a living, and it just seems that you seem
to be obsessed with gamblers having their come uppance. also why so many threads on same subject?
i can only assume that you have had many a bad experience in yr own businesses for you to keep
mentioning about living in real world and that we are parasites who contribute nothing to society.
i will carry on trying to squeeze out something thro a bit more poker, purple, spreads and a bit of betfair but
prob at least halved.
dont stay bitter forever jtg, hope things get better for you.
got the impression that secretly you were very miffed with how i made my living through gambling.
ever since the pc 1st came in, you were almost the 1st on the case to post up threads about how we should all
be living in the real world and pay taxes etc and stop being greedy.
im certainly not greedy and have won my money on here through slow pics, no bots and just using a bit
of knowledge of sports and odds in play.
i have had many jobs in past before i became full time on here and paid taxes for over 20 years.
not exactly anyones fault that there isnt taxation on gambling for a living, and it just seems that you seem
to be obsessed with gamblers having their come uppance. also why so many threads on same subject?
i can only assume that you have had many a bad experience in yr own businesses for you to keep
mentioning about living in real world and that we are parasites who contribute nothing to society.
i will carry on trying to squeeze out something thro a bit more poker, purple, spreads and a bit of betfair but
prob at least halved.
dont stay bitter forever jtg, hope things get better for you.
Show More
ah well , looks like johnny prefers creating them to answering any.
only less that 0.71% who makes 15K in year 2003 to 2004 club wow where the dream gone and asking for 60% of what
surely aims at higher levels and they pushing it to hard workers who goes easy 300 markets a week and asking 1000 with the life time of 250 in ten years
sad times i am having a break down
that a poor bite
surely aims at higher levels and they pushing it to hard workers who goes easy 300 markets a week and asking 1000 with the life time of 250 in ten years
sad times i am having a break down
that a poor bite
the more i read to this
yes i am having a break down and jump off a cliff or what
yes i am having a break down and jump off a cliff or what
I can't really understand why you have taken my contributions to the debates on here personally,and posted this. Schadenfreude is not my style and I can assure you that I have no personal gripes against anybody making money on here.If you choose to support yourself and your family through gambling - it's a free country and I have absolutely no problem with that.
Right,I hope I have cleared that up.
Yes, I will join in enthusiastically in discussions concerning :-
- the benefits (or otherwise) of 'professionals' to Betfair and to society as a whole.
- the taxation of organised activities designed to make profits out of the gambling public.
- the rights of Betfair to set its own business strategy.
Why? - Because I have views that contradict with 95% of the posters on here and I like to think I bring a sense of balance to proceedings. The vast majority can only see things from their own individual position and sometimes a more objective view is required.
Surely it would be boring reading page after page of everybody agreeing with each other?
Right,I hope I have cleared that up.
Yes, I will join in enthusiastically in discussions concerning :-
- the benefits (or otherwise) of 'professionals' to Betfair and to society as a whole.
- the taxation of organised activities designed to make profits out of the gambling public.
- the rights of Betfair to set its own business strategy.
Why? - Because I have views that contradict with 95% of the posters on here and I like to think I bring a sense of balance to proceedings. The vast majority can only see things from their own individual position and sometimes a more objective view is required.
Surely it would be boring reading page after page of everybody agreeing with each other?
You are obviously entitled to your views, however misguided they are, but to claim that you are "more objective" is truly laughable. You basically swallow and regurgitate every piece of propaganda that betfair put out, obviously giving rise to the claim that you work for them.
Not true turtle, as it is not true for me either.
You just seem to have some sort of problem with people taking views and posting reasoned arguments contrary to your own.
I would suggest that you are the one following the knee jerk reaction propaganda that BF is always out to screw you in some form or manner.
BF is running operations as they see fit for the overall benefit of all concerned, the majority of punters and of course its shareholders.
They're not running it to please and satisfy a very, very small minority, of which the majority of posters on here would seem to be part of.
Incidentally I'm also part of that minority, so you could say I'm actually going against my own interests in many of my postings.
But I try to see the bigger picture that I fall in. It's just called being realistic. Not defeatist or naive. A big difference.
You just seem to have some sort of problem with people taking views and posting reasoned arguments contrary to your own.
I would suggest that you are the one following the knee jerk reaction propaganda that BF is always out to screw you in some form or manner.
BF is running operations as they see fit for the overall benefit of all concerned, the majority of punters and of course its shareholders.
They're not running it to please and satisfy a very, very small minority, of which the majority of posters on here would seem to be part of.
Incidentally I'm also part of that minority, so you could say I'm actually going against my own interests in many of my postings.
But I try to see the bigger picture that I fall in. It's just called being realistic. Not defeatist or naive. A big difference.
It's perfectly true for both of you, as many have realized. I'm not fussed whether you acknowledge it or not. I'm happy to post reasoned arguments on a variety of issues (although when the tvvats delete so many of them, it only goes to prove how valid and embarrassing they are to betfair!), and have no problem with others doing the same even if I do not agree with them.
I have yet to see a single post from JTG which falls into that category, more the "clueless and laughable" section (the best of which was when he claimed that poker players pay 75+% of their winnings in rake) Possibly the most idiotic comment I have ever seen on here, and I have been on the football forum for many years, so trust me, that is quite an achivement
Some of your posts are sensible, but the majority of them seem to fall into one of three categories: 1) deliberately trying to provoke people into a reaction, 2) using some obtuse or fanciful play on words to try and impress others (by the way it fails completely) or 3) defending betfair to the hilt in almost everything they do regardless of how stupid and misguided it it, so it's hardly a shock that you find yourself in the minority opinion so frequently, is it
I have yet to see a single post from JTG which falls into that category, more the "clueless and laughable" section (the best of which was when he claimed that poker players pay 75+% of their winnings in rake) Possibly the most idiotic comment I have ever seen on here, and I have been on the football forum for many years, so trust me, that is quite an achivement
Some of your posts are sensible, but the majority of them seem to fall into one of three categories: 1) deliberately trying to provoke people into a reaction, 2) using some obtuse or fanciful play on words to try and impress others (by the way it fails completely) or 3) defending betfair to the hilt in almost everything they do regardless of how stupid and misguided it it, so it's hardly a shock that you find yourself in the minority opinion so frequently, is it
(the best of which was when he claimed that poker players pay 75+% of their winnings in rake) Possibly the most idiotic comment I have ever seen on here
You should see the discussion about value over on Schalke's thread :p
You should see the discussion about value over on Schalke's thread :p
Btw turtle, it's never personal with me, I'm sure you realize that.
Also I would agree that I'm in the minority opinion camp on here more often than not, but that is not necessarily to say I'm in the minority opinion camp BF wide.
OK then
1) Very often guilty. Just a little devil I have always had inside of me.
2) I agree my posting style often sucks. My lowest marks at school were always for essay writing.
3) Not guilty. I'm not defending BF, just trying to see and understand where they are coming from.
1) Very often guilty. Just a little devil I have always had inside of me.
2) I agree my posting style often sucks. My lowest marks at school were always for essay writing.
3) Not guilty. I'm not defending BF, just trying to see and understand where they are coming from.
jtg, when you make comments a while back that full timers on here are basically
parasites who contribute nothing to society and dont live in the real world, then
i will take that personally. no problem with you having views on this subject, but
as i said why so many threads on the matter?
yr posts just come across as a bit of jealousy almost and are now revelling in the
fact that us winning gamblers are gonna get in my opinion overcharged now.
of course betfair need to make a profit, but for me 40-60% is just a bit too greedy
when a lot of us are making the markets and providing the prices and liquidity
for people to bet and for betfair to get their commy.
parasites who contribute nothing to society and dont live in the real world, then
i will take that personally. no problem with you having views on this subject, but
as i said why so many threads on the matter?
yr posts just come across as a bit of jealousy almost and are now revelling in the
fact that us winning gamblers are gonna get in my opinion overcharged now.
of course betfair need to make a profit, but for me 40-60% is just a bit too greedy
when a lot of us are making the markets and providing the prices and liquidity
for people to bet and for betfair to get their commy.
I'll try again.
I'll defend to the hilt your right to make your living in any legal way you choose. It suits you as an individual and that is your choice.
If you want to fire up the debates again on the other matters then I'll be happy to do so.
I'll defend to the hilt your right to make your living in any legal way you choose. It suits you as an individual and that is your choice.
If you want to fire up the debates again on the other matters then I'll be happy to do so.
Yes its interesting there does seem a group of people who seem to derive positive ecstasy by going against the grain and seeming to delight in "winding up" the masses.
In some respects it is something I can empathise with as if I maybe have a streak of that myself over some issues but where issues are as clear as day I have to join the throngs.
Hence re the company I do not feel anything is being done for the benefit of clients, it is purely for themselves, we should not kid ourselves, but it was always coming after announcing the float. This is the way it will always work from now on.
And I won't be playing a big part of it I am pleased to say, you can't re-write the laws of gambling and risk the whole thing falling into a big black whole.
The market is there for a back to basics pure exchange, I'll join that ship anytime!!
Sorry I may not be able to see some postings as I have deliberately excluded them after hearing the same arguments done to overkill!
In some respects it is something I can empathise with as if I maybe have a streak of that myself over some issues but where issues are as clear as day I have to join the throngs.
Hence re the company I do not feel anything is being done for the benefit of clients, it is purely for themselves, we should not kid ourselves, but it was always coming after announcing the float. This is the way it will always work from now on.
And I won't be playing a big part of it I am pleased to say, you can't re-write the laws of gambling and risk the whole thing falling into a big black whole.
The market is there for a back to basics pure exchange, I'll join that ship anytime!!
Sorry I may not be able to see some postings as I have deliberately excluded them after hearing the same arguments done to overkill!
Johnny or Ian in real life seams very jelous to me.
Maybe he has set out on many paths in life on the road to riches and
has come the dead ends in all of them.Now he is having his mid life crisis.
Maybe he boought shares at £15 and thinks the more he talks the better the share
price will be.He needs to give us all a rest.
He seams to want to be on the inside but is on the outside looking in.
Maybe he has set out on many paths in life on the road to riches and
has come the dead ends in all of them.Now he is having his mid life crisis.
Maybe he boought shares at £15 and thinks the more he talks the better the share
price will be.He needs to give us all a rest.
He seams to want to be on the inside but is on the outside looking in.
Or maybe he is just rich enough not to give a monkey's what you think ?
If he is he sure as heck hasn't made it on betfair, or indeed any form of gambling, judging by his comments on here.
i think you can safely assume that jtg hasnt made his living from gambling!
of course he is allowed to have his say on anything pc related, but he didnt want
to answer my questions on why he opens up so many new topics on the same subject.
that stirkes me of someone who is clearly bitter about what full timers do on here.
again johnny you telling me that you will defend to the hilt on us making a living
in any legal way we choose, doesnt seem to correspond us with us being parasites
who contribute nothing to society.
of course he is allowed to have his say on anything pc related, but he didnt want
to answer my questions on why he opens up so many new topics on the same subject.
that stirkes me of someone who is clearly bitter about what full timers do on here.
again johnny you telling me that you will defend to the hilt on us making a living
in any legal way we choose, doesnt seem to correspond us with us being parasites
who contribute nothing to society.
OK - I'll bite.
I'll save you the speculation - I can confirm I do not make my living from gambling - just a nice bob or two each year for a few of life's 'extras'.
I worked out a long, long time ago that I could use my skills, judgement and time to get a far greater return from setting up and running my own business. Oh,and I've got something to sell when I retire also
You phrase your comments like it's something to be ashamed of!!
Why do I open "so many" PC topics ? - to balance the "It's the end of the exchange", "The pros keep the whole show on the road", nonsense spouted on here by so many.
OK- What does the "professional", playing full time computer games on here, contribute to society? How does he or she add value or create wealth?
I'll save you the speculation - I can confirm I do not make my living from gambling - just a nice bob or two each year for a few of life's 'extras'.
I worked out a long, long time ago that I could use my skills, judgement and time to get a far greater return from setting up and running my own business. Oh,and I've got something to sell when I retire also
You phrase your comments like it's something to be ashamed of!!
Why do I open "so many" PC topics ? - to balance the "It's the end of the exchange", "The pros keep the whole show on the road", nonsense spouted on here by so many.
OK- What does the "professional", playing full time computer games on here, contribute to society? How does he or she add value or create wealth?
when i have mentioned that whatever you do for a living is something to be ashamed
of? i dont remember you giving the slightest clue on what you do.
you just posted earlier that you would defend to the hilt how we choose to make our
living as long as its legal and yet now you are asking what we contribute to society
and what wealth are we creating?? how is that defending us then??
i presume city workers who buy and sell shares or play on the money markets are also
playing computer games then. i just happen to play the markets based on sporting
events. betfair have received plenty of commission and pc charges from me and some
of that must surely have gone to the tax man.
i assume you would prefer if i was sitting at home claiming job seekers or maybe
just benefits. not sure what the obsession with creating wealth is?
of? i dont remember you giving the slightest clue on what you do.
you just posted earlier that you would defend to the hilt how we choose to make our
living as long as its legal and yet now you are asking what we contribute to society
and what wealth are we creating?? how is that defending us then??
i presume city workers who buy and sell shares or play on the money markets are also
playing computer games then. i just happen to play the markets based on sporting
events. betfair have received plenty of commission and pc charges from me and some
of that must surely have gone to the tax man.
i assume you would prefer if i was sitting at home claiming job seekers or maybe
just benefits. not sure what the obsession with creating wealth is?
it is my (johnny the) guess(er) that he's got a PR business and is "charging" a "premium" customer for his support.
Johnny The Guesser
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 11:30
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 249 | Blogger: Johnny The Guesser's blog
[...]
OK- What does the "professional", playing full time computer games on here, contribute to society? How does he or she add value or create wealth?
Better odds for gamblers. Betfair provide the platform, we provide the odds, which is where the value is added. I'll lay a 110 shot at 100, when your average bookie might be offering odds of 60.
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 11:30
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 249 | Blogger: Johnny The Guesser's blog
[...]
OK- What does the "professional", playing full time computer games on here, contribute to society? How does he or she add value or create wealth?
Better odds for gamblers. Betfair provide the platform, we provide the odds, which is where the value is added. I'll lay a 110 shot at 100, when your average bookie might be offering odds of 60.
Hey Ho - Let's go
Creating wealth and adding value is what keeps the whole country growing!
The City guys pay Stamp Duty and huge amounts of Tax and NI on their earnings - You pay nothing.
Whatever you win - someone else has lost! It's by definition a zero sum game. - You haven't created or added anything.
Yes - your actions result in a movement of wealth BUT - you don't add anything. Whatever you spend is just money that someone else now can't.
You contribute to society by producing goods and services and paying tax. _
Creating wealth and adding value is what keeps the whole country growing!
The City guys pay Stamp Duty and huge amounts of Tax and NI on their earnings - You pay nothing.
Whatever you win - someone else has lost! It's by definition a zero sum game. - You haven't created or added anything.
Yes - your actions result in a movement of wealth BUT - you don't add anything. Whatever you spend is just money that someone else now can't.
You contribute to society by producing goods and services and paying tax. _
And the movement of wealth to tax-free countries made by the City guys don't count ...
Orders of magnitude (each week) greater than what any winner (and all combined) have taken out of this exchange ...
If you need any more examples of others who are draining the wealth well for their own benefit, just open any newspaper any day.
Orders of magnitude (each week) greater than what any winner (and all combined) have taken out of this exchange ...
If you need any more examples of others who are draining the wealth well for their own benefit, just open any newspaper any day.
Cant let this one go without making a comment :)
"Whatever you win - someone else has lost" This is a very shallow understanding, because really what has happened is two people have had an experience and both can benefit if they learn and grow from it, thus adding life value. Life is a series of experiences, nothing more, nothing less. You gain from every moment, if you choose to.
It really isnt just about where you pay tax or who produces goods, its a lot deeper than that. Life is about experiences, people should do what they love for a living. That is what really improves life for everybody.
How many people do jobs they hate just because they are too afraid to follow their passion? Is that adding value? Not in my eyes it isnt. Love what you do and never ever worry what other people think and you wont go far wrong in my opinion.
Personally I love trading the markets and do it for the sheer enjoyment of it.
"Whatever you win - someone else has lost" This is a very shallow understanding, because really what has happened is two people have had an experience and both can benefit if they learn and grow from it, thus adding life value. Life is a series of experiences, nothing more, nothing less. You gain from every moment, if you choose to.
It really isnt just about where you pay tax or who produces goods, its a lot deeper than that. Life is about experiences, people should do what they love for a living. That is what really improves life for everybody.
How many people do jobs they hate just because they are too afraid to follow their passion? Is that adding value? Not in my eyes it isnt. Love what you do and never ever worry what other people think and you wont go far wrong in my opinion.
Personally I love trading the markets and do it for the sheer enjoyment of it.
If you win does not mean someone else lose. You win and they might have bet with bookie like William Hills. So you win and they win. Bets are fun too so enjoyment is created even when a bet lose.
well johnny ive paid taxes for 25 yrs and only been doing this for 5 yrs full time.
you seem very obsessed with people having to contribute value and wealth to the
society, but im sry im only here once and i dont intend to do a mundane job for 8
hrs a day anymore just to help the country.
i gamble purely with money that i earnt previously and from then of course it will
be from other WILLING users who are also having fun and trying to win like me.
you still havent answered my question jtg on why you say in one sentence that you
will defend to the hilt what we do and then moan about value/wealth in the next???
you seem very obsessed with people having to contribute value and wealth to the
society, but im sry im only here once and i dont intend to do a mundane job for 8
hrs a day anymore just to help the country.
i gamble purely with money that i earnt previously and from then of course it will
be from other WILLING users who are also having fun and trying to win like me.
you still havent answered my question jtg on why you say in one sentence that you
will defend to the hilt what we do and then moan about value/wealth in the next???
Jonny, we provide feck all for society as employment goes and wouldn't be missed by anyone .I'm pretty certain about that, we do what we do because that's our best option ...i would make a useless Plumber i am sure .
But it's more important how you are as a person, how you live your life.
Live your life and look out for others, don't embrace greed and live by a few golden rules ...be a nice person,be there to help others in need .
You don't have to be a nurse or lifeguard to be something to the world.
But it's more important how you are as a person, how you live your life.
Live your life and look out for others, don't embrace greed and live by a few golden rules ...be a nice person,be there to help others in need .
You don't have to be a nurse or lifeguard to be something to the world.
I think the JTG might just really be impliying that in the general order of civilised society, gamblers/gambling are pretty far down the totem pole.
As such it is a bit rich for them to be crying poor or hard done by if and when things don't continue to go perfectly their way.
After all the PC is a tax on net profits, with such profits being earned from an activity that does not really improve society as a whole.
For sure it adds to the enjoyment of life for a certain segement of society, but even that , it could be argued, is very largely offset by the woes, misfgortunes and damage is does to a much larger segment of society.
Now I, and most likely JTG also, am totally pro-gambling, but only in the sense that it is an activity where I do not ever expect to be treated as if I'm a poor little innocent. I fully expect to be swimming with sharks with all disguises all the time.
As such it is a bit rich for them to be crying poor or hard done by if and when things don't continue to go perfectly their way.
After all the PC is a tax on net profits, with such profits being earned from an activity that does not really improve society as a whole.
For sure it adds to the enjoyment of life for a certain segement of society, but even that , it could be argued, is very largely offset by the woes, misfgortunes and damage is does to a much larger segment of society.
Now I, and most likely JTG also, am totally pro-gambling, but only in the sense that it is an activity where I do not ever expect to be treated as if I'm a poor little innocent. I fully expect to be swimming with sharks with all disguises all the time.
Johnny The Guesser
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 16:50
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 250 | Blogger: Johnny The Guesser's blog
Hey Ho - Let's go
Creating wealth and adding value is what keeps the whole country growing!
The City guys pay Stamp Duty and huge amounts of Tax and NI on their earnings - You pay nothing.
Whatever you win - someone else has lost! It's by definition a zero sum game. - You haven't created or added anything.
Yes - your actions result in a movement of wealth BUT - you don't add anything. Whatever you spend is just money that someone else now can't.
You contribute to society by producing goods and services and paying tax. _
You create value by creating or contributing to a better product or service or by providing the same product or service at a better price, or some combination of the two. That is what winners on Betfair do.
Perhaps society would be better off if people didn't gamble (although I doubt it). But given that they do, those people that help in giving them the best deal possible are adding value. I don't see how anyone can seriously dispute that.
This morning in the Copa America match I had a look at the odds offered on Paddypowa at half time in match odds, it was something like
1.02
60
18
When on Betfair you could get
1.04
150
30
That's just an estimate, but it shows that an open market adds a tremendous amount of value. Obviously these prices are determined by winners (if a whale moves the price to an incorrect level this will be corrected by those with a better understanding).
Betfair provides the platform, winners provide the odds.
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 16:50
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 250 | Blogger: Johnny The Guesser's blog
Hey Ho - Let's go
Creating wealth and adding value is what keeps the whole country growing!
The City guys pay Stamp Duty and huge amounts of Tax and NI on their earnings - You pay nothing.
Whatever you win - someone else has lost! It's by definition a zero sum game. - You haven't created or added anything.
Yes - your actions result in a movement of wealth BUT - you don't add anything. Whatever you spend is just money that someone else now can't.
You contribute to society by producing goods and services and paying tax. _
You create value by creating or contributing to a better product or service or by providing the same product or service at a better price, or some combination of the two. That is what winners on Betfair do.
Perhaps society would be better off if people didn't gamble (although I doubt it). But given that they do, those people that help in giving them the best deal possible are adding value. I don't see how anyone can seriously dispute that.
This morning in the Copa America match I had a look at the odds offered on Paddypowa at half time in match odds, it was something like
1.02
60
18
When on Betfair you could get
1.04
150
30
That's just an estimate, but it shows that an open market adds a tremendous amount of value. Obviously these prices are determined by winners (if a whale moves the price to an incorrect level this will be corrected by those with a better understanding).
Betfair provides the platform, winners provide the odds.
And the biggest disguise of anyone on here is that of saying that in arguing against the PC, they are arguing in the overall interests of all punters, good or bad.
Gimme a break.
It's all about self interest.
In fact without having reams of self interest, you will never even approach becoming a top gambler.
Gimme a break.
It's all about self interest.
In fact without having reams of self interest, you will never even approach becoming a top gambler.
Investor
And nothing is going to stop that happening is it, with or without the PC ?
And nothing is going to stop that happening is it, with or without the PC ?
Well, i guess you need a certain self interest to become successful at anything ...i mean even from Primary school age ,but i get your gist .
Gamblers are probably high up on the 'me' list , but then it's like rich folk in their exclusive neighborhoods ...the only time you see them protest is when there are plans for a nearby toxic waste site or Pikey park
Gamblers are probably high up on the 'me' list , but then it's like rich folk in their exclusive neighborhoods ...the only time you see them protest is when there are plans for a nearby toxic waste site or Pikey park
You need a large degree of self interest just to survive everyday life in fact.
Yes FAFH, it is about self interest of course.
The developments with PC are definitely go against the interests of all punters though, even if they don't realise it.
For one thing, if there was no PC, Betfair would be heavily motivated to get as close as possible to a level playing field, and stop systematic (and what many would consider unfair) exploitation of loopholes and built in inefficiencies of the exchange.
Now Betfair stands to profit heavily from these 'flaws' in the exchange, so they will be a lot less likely to correct them -> not good for punters.
The developments with PC are definitely go against the interests of all punters though, even if they don't realise it.
For one thing, if there was no PC, Betfair would be heavily motivated to get as close as possible to a level playing field, and stop systematic (and what many would consider unfair) exploitation of loopholes and built in inefficiencies of the exchange.
Now Betfair stands to profit heavily from these 'flaws' in the exchange, so they will be a lot less likely to correct them -> not good for punters.
OK,
Let's kick this on a bit.
Most of you have just pointed out the benefits to YOU of being a full timer but this isn't what we are talking about.
The question is - How do you ,in your role as a full time trader, benefit the world beyond your front door?
Of course the answer I was expecting (and got in places) was "gambling is a leisure industry and we provide entertainment by matching bets"
BUT - I even dispute that.
Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our bets between us at better prices.
Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices.
So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck.
Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.
Let's kick this on a bit.
Most of you have just pointed out the benefits to YOU of being a full timer but this isn't what we are talking about.
The question is - How do you ,in your role as a full time trader, benefit the world beyond your front door?
Of course the answer I was expecting (and got in places) was "gambling is a leisure industry and we provide entertainment by matching bets"
BUT - I even dispute that.
Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our bets between us at better prices.
Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices.
So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck.
Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.
Callataxi
I don't defend what you do - but I do defend your right to do it.
Big difference.
I don't defend what you do - but I do defend your right to do it.
Big difference.
JTG
What about the quite valid point often made about mug punters not having the slightest idea of what is a value price and wouldn't even know where to start in pricing up an event ?
Aren't pros or at least semi pros serving a useful purpose in that sense ?.
Of course the key point still remains that whilst they or some semblance of them are essental, they are not irreplaceable.
What about the quite valid point often made about mug punters not having the slightest idea of what is a value price and wouldn't even know where to start in pricing up an event ?
Aren't pros or at least semi pros serving a useful purpose in that sense ?.
Of course the key point still remains that whilst they or some semblance of them are essental, they are not irreplaceable.
Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our bets between us at better prices. Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices. So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck. Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.
JTG has to be on the wind up, nobody could write such a total pile of cobblers and actually believe it, surely?
JTG has to be on the wind up, nobody could write such a total pile of cobblers and actually believe it, surely?
How does that work?
You'd be meeting each other in the middle until there was nowhere else to go.
Much like you see now.
You'd be meeting each other in the middle until there was nowhere else to go.
Much like you see now.
Turtle/Rocket
Whilst like you I essentially question this particular point of JTG's in a practical sense, maybe he is just saying that like in any and all other activities, basic supply and demand technically sets the prices at the end of the day.
Whilst like you I essentially question this particular point of JTG's in a practical sense, maybe he is just saying that like in any and all other activities, basic supply and demand technically sets the prices at the end of the day.
Btw very rarely do I get the opportunity to reply to perhaps my two most ardent admirers in one post.
Happy days.
Happy days.
Johnny The Guesser
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 21:22
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 252 | Blogger: Johnny The Guesser's blog
OK,
Let's kick this on a bit.
Most of you have just pointed out the benefits to YOU of being a full timer but this isn't what we are talking about.
The question is - How do you ,in your role as a full time trader, benefit the world beyond your front door?
Of course the answer I was expecting (and got in places) was "gambling is a leisure industry and we provide entertainment by matching bets"
BUT - I even dispute that.
Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our bets between us at better prices.
Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices.
So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck.
Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.
Given that there are winners, it's obviously better for leisure punters if they are competing with each other to take as little as possible value for themselves. You could argue that if all these winners weren't there, the remaining punters would on average be getting better value, which is true.
However, what would happen in this case is that a subset of these leisure punters would be better than the rest, and a small group would start to rake in profits, much in the same way that the current group of winners do. Some of these would make more than they do in their job, and set up full time. However, as these new winners aren't as good as the old ones (which is why they're only making money after the previous winners have been removed), they won't be able to price up as tightly, so the exchange won't function as well as it does.
Markets are rarely efficient. When they are, someone is getting paid to keep them there.
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 21:22
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 252 | Blogger: Johnny The Guesser's blog
OK,
Let's kick this on a bit.
Most of you have just pointed out the benefits to YOU of being a full timer but this isn't what we are talking about.
The question is - How do you ,in your role as a full time trader, benefit the world beyond your front door?
Of course the answer I was expecting (and got in places) was "gambling is a leisure industry and we provide entertainment by matching bets"
BUT - I even dispute that.
Left alone on here , us leisure punters would sort ourselves out and match our bets between us at better prices.
Why? - We just don't need the middlemen sitting between us outcome punters nicking a sliver of value from both of us. We would meet quite happily in the middle ourselves - both ending up with better prices.
So without the pros we still get our entertainment AND better value for our leisure buck.
Instead of adding value to our lives you actually nick some for for yourselves.
Given that there are winners, it's obviously better for leisure punters if they are competing with each other to take as little as possible value for themselves. You could argue that if all these winners weren't there, the remaining punters would on average be getting better value, which is true.
However, what would happen in this case is that a subset of these leisure punters would be better than the rest, and a small group would start to rake in profits, much in the same way that the current group of winners do. Some of these would make more than they do in their job, and set up full time. However, as these new winners aren't as good as the old ones (which is why they're only making money after the previous winners have been removed), they won't be able to price up as tightly, so the exchange won't function as well as it does.
Markets are rarely efficient. When they are, someone is getting paid to keep them there.
I suppose we're just gonna have to test that hypothesis out eh Investor ?.
You( we) might be totally surprised by who actually steps up to the plate, if the so-called current mkt. making elite depart en masse ( which they most likely won't of course).
You( we) might be totally surprised by who actually steps up to the plate, if the so-called current mkt. making elite depart en masse ( which they most likely won't of course).
I read a line recently in a book.
It was applied to journalis but, I thought at the time, maybe it appropiately explains why many of the committed exchange type gamblers are so obviously currently upset.
" They start off as idealists and then they become pragmatists and finally pessimists ".
It was applied to journalis but, I thought at the time, maybe it appropiately explains why many of the committed exchange type gamblers are so obviously currently upset.
" They start off as idealists and then they become pragmatists and finally pessimists ".
I agree that leisure punters can bet amongst themselves on systems where there is a big takeout and it doesnt really matter, theres already the Tote system which is a form of this, and the punters are not really that price sensitive anyhow so will pretty much take whats going.
I wouldnt imagine prices would be better on here or that any losing punters would suddenly become successful. BF would probably just act more the bookmaker instead of the exchange.
But thats not much use to those who want a pure exchange and are serious about long term profits.
Re what service people who bet are providing, alot have been put in a position of being made redundant with their own qualifications pretty much nullified by modern technology and hence this seemed the best of a pretty poor barrel of options, unless someone wants their toilet cleaned, but hardly a great public service to provide.
What time do you want me to pop around with my Domestos and toilet cleaning flannel Johnny?? Surely it is helpful that people who bet are not living off the State like many hundreds of others have or choose to do anyhow and the employment figures are kept down, so that is beneficial.
I wouldnt imagine prices would be better on here or that any losing punters would suddenly become successful. BF would probably just act more the bookmaker instead of the exchange.
But thats not much use to those who want a pure exchange and are serious about long term profits.
Re what service people who bet are providing, alot have been put in a position of being made redundant with their own qualifications pretty much nullified by modern technology and hence this seemed the best of a pretty poor barrel of options, unless someone wants their toilet cleaned, but hardly a great public service to provide.
What time do you want me to pop around with my Domestos and toilet cleaning flannel Johnny?? Surely it is helpful that people who bet are not living off the State like many hundreds of others have or choose to do anyhow and the employment figures are kept down, so that is beneficial.
What about bookmakers Johnny do you think they should get their toilet brushes out too?
OK JOhnny I ask you this you know you can win more money through betting than you could through some humdrum job you dont enjoy and pays a pittance working long hours.
You genuinely enjoy the process of betting and the calculations/potential rewards that go with it, why would you choose the bog cleaning position and make yourself miserable, or would you just do it for the benefit of that person having a clean toilet every day being such a great provider of service to the community that you are?
You genuinely enjoy the process of betting and the calculations/potential rewards that go with it, why would you choose the bog cleaning position and make yourself miserable, or would you just do it for the benefit of that person having a clean toilet every day being such a great provider of service to the community that you are?
The invisible hand guides us to do what we do.
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages
yeh past 5 yrs or so, ive been able to spend far more time with family and friends
and enjoy my pastimes of golf and tennis plus watching my favourite sport, not
having to worry about asking for time off etc or being answerable to any boss.
im sure that i want to go and do some mundane job, hating every minute and not being
able to do even a quarter of the things ive been able to do, just to create some
wealth for the country!!
im quite prepared to take a hit with my future income, and still do battle
with other WILLING users on whatever site i happen to be on, be it poker, purple
or here.
judging by some peoples posts on here, you would think people just happened to
stumble onto this site and somehow registerred and deposited money and then lost
without their team/player having any realistic chance of winning.
god forbid it could possibly be that we might just get more right than said losing
punters, rather than we just rip em right off!!
and enjoy my pastimes of golf and tennis plus watching my favourite sport, not
having to worry about asking for time off etc or being answerable to any boss.
im sure that i want to go and do some mundane job, hating every minute and not being
able to do even a quarter of the things ive been able to do, just to create some
wealth for the country!!
im quite prepared to take a hit with my future income, and still do battle
with other WILLING users on whatever site i happen to be on, be it poker, purple
or here.
judging by some peoples posts on here, you would think people just happened to
stumble onto this site and somehow registerred and deposited money and then lost
without their team/player having any realistic chance of winning.
god forbid it could possibly be that we might just get more right than said losing
punters, rather than we just rip em right off!!
I think you will find you are chasing ever diminishing returns with the pc thing.
I belive the winner shoul;d get the lions share not have 80% removed from this figure.
I belive the winner shoul;d get the lions share not have 80% removed from this figure.
The winner should get it all pmbets imo, otherwise we are being conditioned otherwise. OK there was once a tax of 9% but that has gone, since then I expect to keep all my winnings all the time I'm afraid.
As no doubt there will be losers along the way too. The idea is to make a profit not have someone steal the money just for providing the platform. Unacceptable.
As no doubt there will be losers along the way too. The idea is to make a profit not have someone steal the money just for providing the platform. Unacceptable.
Interesting the Racing Post editor suggested that BF should only charge bot operators rather than everyone who is over their perceived threshold so he must see some kind of injustice clearly as most do.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539