No, they get exactly the right impression, which is why you and other pc tax defenders like to parrot the betfair crap which has shown to be a complete load of rubbish.

No, they get exactly the right impression, which is why you and other pc tax defenders like to parrot the betfair crap which has shown to be a complete load of rubbish.

Whereabouts TurtlesBrain?

Only long term winners pay the pc
Only traders/bot operators pay the pc
Only .05% of customers pay the pc

The above may not be 100% accurate but to say the reverse gives newbies the right impression is like saying "the MRR jag kills" would give children about to receive the jag the right impression.

Lori
Joined: 20 Apr 04
Replies: 34671 04 Jun 11 16:31   
Indeed you don't pay the 1st week.

I did. 


I only started paying when the changed the number of markets rule.
So maybe they started giving people a weeks notice at that time too?

"The above may not be 100% accurate"

lmao, that is like saying that Blatter is a little bit crooked

And what exactly is "the reverse" of those comments

This thread is comical.

First up you've got someone moaning about betfair and the pc going on about how betfair is so greedy and they should be fair.

Hmm let me have a think, ooh it's a capitalist company created in a capitalist country. Greed, yes that's so bad, those poor punters all betting trying to win money out of greed. Yes it's all right for all the punters to be greedy though but not anyone else. Not me mind, i'm here betting as i know that my gambling exploits will help bring about world peace.

What's that, StannJamees  have just announced that they will suspend peoples accounts if they are losing too much and keep them going when they are winning as they think it's only fair on the customer. Hang on a second, Brittish Gass have just found out that it's going to be a really cold winter so they have said that they are going to lower prices as they know people will be using more gas and they want to help them out.

Then comes all the pointless bitching, oh boo hoo it's not fair... they so don't care... get over it, what are you 15.

Then comes the, "well if you don't like it don't read it no-one's making you read this thread." oh boo hoo, try stamping your feet and slamming the door behind you as well whilst your having that tantrum.

Here's the really funny thing though. All you people moan about how Feck spouts all his anti-capitalist stuff and how he goes on endlessly about things he can do nothing about. You all make comments about well if you don't like it go away. Oh the irony, any of it sound familiar to your capitalist stance and your moaning about something you can do nothing about.

Don't moan, deal with it. I'd rather give Betfair £200K to make a million than given them nothing and make £500K. Who cares what other people earn, worry about yourself and things you can control.

Honesty, grow up, grow a pair and stop whinging like little schoolgirls. If you don't like it you know where the door is.

Yoo hoo.
That should ruffle a few feathers.
Hope you've got your body armour on UA.

As pc threads go this one has had the least amount of moaning on it but something tells me that is about to change!!!

Lori Joined: 20 Apr 04
Replies: 34697 04 Jun 11 16:31 
Indeed you don't pay the 1st week.

I did.

-------

me too. and i didn't get an email after the fact. they just took the money without saying anything.

poor customer relations, imo. shouldn't really say something then not follow through on it. similarly, there's still no sign of a PC page with a link to it in "My Account", which i'm pretty sure they also said they'd do. just an unadvertised PC portal people find out about from other forumites, which doesn't even work for many non-payers.

regardless of the rights and wrongs of the actual charge, that creates a poor impression. it says: "we don't do what we say we're going to do, and we're embarrassed about this and trying to keep it from public view."

sunderlandfan
03 Jun 11 02:07 Joined: 15 Jun 05 | Topic/replies: 290 | Blogger: sunderlandfan's blog
I dont pay the PC (yet) but I am deeply offended by its very existence

You don't give a reason.  The reason the "betfair plants" bother to respond to these threads and other, non-pc threads that get hijacked, is because there are a few users who, because they are hit by pc, are willing to bend reality and sensationalise the situation on order to make it a much bigger deal than it is.

Everyone who uses this site pays money to betfair in one way or another and betfair decide how this is done.  PC payers by definition pay less than everyone else and if there was a better deal elsewhere you can be sure they would waste no more effort bombarding these forums with their whinging nonsense,

I did have some sympathy in the beginning because of how it was implemented but come on guys, how long have you had now to get to grips with it?

I am only a junior plant, kept in a nice little tidy spot to the left of the reception desk at hammersmith.

"PC payers by definition pay less than everyone else"

This is the very example of one of the lies that keep getting put about. It simply isn't true. So it's hardly any wonder that people accuse betfair of putting plants on the forum, is it?

(I thought Betfair are in Gibraltar now?)

And they don't even have to do that! Win a load, lose a load = get clobbered by pc tax. Lose a load, win a load = pay feck all in pc tax.

Still waiting for the plants to explain how this is fair...

And they don't even have to do that! Win a load, lose a load = get clobbered by pc tax. Lose a load, win a load = pay feck all in pc tax. Still waiting for the plants to explain how this is fair...

No one has said it's fair. Indeed we've said quite the opposite and that there should be rebates. Your solution on the other hand is akin to emptying the prisons because they contain the odd innocent party.

seems betfair have taken the view that they are providing you with the opportunity to make money,
and the few clever ones who can do this are going to get clobbered with a Premium Charge,

by definition if they are winning others must be losing,
and some of the losing punters may get fed up and go away and they need replacing,
advertising costs etc to replace 'em.....so deduct more from the ones who are winning every week.

And if you don't like it, Shut the door on the way out.

Or what exactly is the reason for this PC ? Because no one is saying it's fair.

Technically it's possible for a non-pc payer to pay a smaller proportion of overall profits in charges than a pc payer.

The best position to be in to minimize overall charges is to be on 2% commission, and be right on the edge of paying PC, but not actually paying it.

The people paying the lowest amount in overall charges are therefore not paying PC, and will in fact be paying a substantially smaller proportion of profits in charges than the average PC payer, who will be paying well over 20%, versus 17-18% for the 2% comm payer mentioned mentioned above.

Personally I wd be pleased to see the pc put up slightly to 25 or 30% and a good proportion of the extra funds raised redistributed as rebates to people whose losses over the year are less than their commission paid.

This wd keep marginal and aspirational people in the game: skill-based liquidity-providing winners wd have competitors they cd beat, and the markets wd be kept liquid and tend to a general perception of fair value.

In assessing the fairness of the pc, I tend to make the comparison with taxation. What proportion of my bf yearly _net_ bf profits wd I be prepared to pay to exempt myself from all commission charged? 
Looking at the government's sliding scale of 22%, then 40%, then 50%, it closely matches what I'd be happy to pay provided I won over a certain threshold (say 6k, then actually a lot less than the government's higher tax band earnings at 42k or so.) Supposing I had a yearly loss on bf, for any reason including arbing, no commission wd be deducted. Even at 40% clawback in comm. on yearly winnings I wd bite off bf's hand to receive such an offer.

Bf get away with the pc b/c winners who need their interface, information and the ability to trade have nowhere else to go. If you cd win w/out trading e.g. through pricing or even making series of prediction-bets based into some other pool, then you will not need to pay the pc. In other words, the charge is relatively well-aimed at people who extract a 'rent' from others' betting activity, skimming off the pool.

Like Feck I don't think I have ever stated the pc is fair.  The commission system in general is unfair because it is designed to maximise betfair's profit rather than give the owners a warm glow of evenhandedness and, let's face it, is there a replacement that would seem fair from all perspectives? 

One thing I have said before and stand by is that the system is fairer with pc than without it.

I'm fed up with people wishing that

Hello there turtleshead.

Firstly i'm no more a betfair plant than you are a betduck plant trying to get people annoyed with betfair and switch across. If you took the time to read my post before phrasing your eloquent response you'll notice i don't actually take any personal stance as to whether the charge is fair.

My reasoning was quite simply that Betfair have introduced the charge as they believe it is in their best interests and will have a positive affect on the company. Whether you think their decision is right or wrong the pc is here you have to find a way to deal with it.

TheInvestor2’s point shows this rational of it being a business decision by saying that you can be on lower than the pc charge by getting yourself onto a 2% commission. Great I'm sure Betfair would love to have everyone betting to such an extent that their commission has gone down to 2%. They wouls also be more than happy to have people cross trading and betting more than they should have in order to avoid paying it. It's great business for them.

TheInvestor2 - The purpose of telling people to stop moaning about the pc is actually constructive because it is such a waste of their energy, it will not change anything and it’s a very negative emotion to harbour that will do them no good. The purpose of moaning about the pc I’m not quite so sure of, as it will not change anything. The purpose of continuously moaning about the pc... well you just come across as a sad unfulfilled person with too much time on your hands.

I’ve made my point now you can agree or disagree, carry on moaning, slaag me off whatever, I wont waste any more time posting another comment on this thread. I have better things to do. Do you?

"It's just that when people spread the type of blatant propaganda that betfair put out, people who despise this horifically unfair rip off tax get annoyed..."

"And when posts get deleted making perfectly fair, valid, and relevant points..."