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BF bombard me with phone calls after forum PC criticism
BF bombard me with phone calls after forum PC criticism
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Replies: 495
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What are you basing that on Clydebank? I thought a certain tennis courtsider bragged he was paying virtually no commission on huge winnings and this ruffled a few feathers
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GL to you too Mr Fu.
Don't expect anymore than an email when you start paying. That's what gets my goat almost as much as having to pay this charge. The total lack of dialogue between betfair and it's customers when it comes to this charge. Has there ever been a Q&A session on here as they have on the poker forum from time to time? |
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Also, I wouldnt assume no pc payers would promote Betfair. Why not? And why would this put a prospective newcomer off the site... you can win so regularly on BF that they had to introduce a new charge to slow you down.
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I thought a certain tennis courtsider bragged he was paying virtually no commission on huge winnings and this ruffled a few feathers
If that's the problem that betfair are trying to solve then the PC is a very poor solution. |
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 you can win so regularly on BF that they had to introduce a new charge to slow you down. What a winning slogan. |
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The first time BF actually totally bans someone for winning, then it will be all over.
The rest is all just noise from different people with different agendas. |
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btw, have any of you proper brains out there worked out an excel formula to tell you how much headroom you've got left on the PC? as a close-enough-for-rock-n-roll calculation I multiply toal charges by five, subtract gross profit then multiply what's left by 1.1.
but I'd appreciate something that used the data on the portal page and my commission rate to give a precise figure. |
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Some heynoodles but hardly any I would say. Far more people who have paid it are very negative about them I reckon. I'm very circumspect about the charges and I can see the commercial reasons for the decision, I even reasonably regularly have amicable conversations with Betfair. I want Betfair to be succesful but there's no conception of spreading the love. It's like you can forgive but you can never forget.
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FAFH
I can't imagine it would ever be in BFs interests to ban anyone as they run on different lines to a bookies. When has their ever been a true winner on BF ? I ask this Q because unless you die unexpectedly with a plus account you can never say at any time you're a lifetime winner .And how many winners are going to quit on a winning note ? I mention all this because i did get round to asking a a guy at BF what the position would be, if over a number of years as a 'winner' if in a moment of madness you blow all you have previously gained ? The answer was that there is no refund on premium charge payments ,which i think is a little unfair as it goes against what the premium charge stands for surely ? His response was that any sizeable losses would render future winnings free of PC for a fair time. My point was , how many gamblers would carry on after losing their bank ? I don't think many would. |
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Me, I am going to quit in profit. As soon as my strategy is not viable I will quit.
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Cat, you mean when your strategy has been rumbled presumably ?
Otherwise even the very best strategies are prone to risk , an unlikely sequence of results could still badly hit the very best gamblers ,it all depends very much on your 'bouncebackability' after that. ....and your bank reserves in some cases!! |
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Fear is in the heart of every gambler [:(]
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its about having relatively few losing markets. Is that necessarily efficient?
You could have 99% losing markets and pay pc The pc was introduced because some users were paying too little of their gross profit back in commission and it's not worth having people on the site if they are not paying their way If thats true why are Betfair offering people concessions on pc |
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Who are they offering concessions to?
Also could someone answer my previous question please. Has someone from betfair ever come on here and had a Q&A session with regards the PC? |
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fll, pxb has said on the first page that bf gave him a concession on the pc, if it wasn't true I'm sure Betfair would have removed the post.
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Well maybe if someone from betfair came on here we would get an answer.
It's something they do all the time on the poker forum. |
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Fairly sure there has not been a QandA just about the PC although it has been discussed amongst many subjects on the Q and A sessions BF have.There used to be a BF mouthpiece on the forum ,no not Feck,who would tell us how the 2nd lot of PC rules ( no 250 market threshold,only one £1000 let off) would get less people in the net.Not sure if that ones correct ,Pythia was his username but not been seen for a while on the PC threads.
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Cheers frames.
If they ever have another one. I'd wonder if they'd give us actual figures to prove this statement. no 250 market threshold,only one £1000 let off would get less people in the net Anecdotally (which clearly isn't always a |
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That's why their top players don't only not pay anywhere near 20% of their profit to the site, but are actually sponsored into events and used to advertise the sites and help sell the 'dream'
The top players were always paying way in excess of 20% of their profits on betfair. Trying to "sell the dream" using your average pc payer would've seen betfair the subject of a Panorama special. |
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ooops not sure what happened there.
I was going to say - Anecdotally (which clearly isn't always a great guide), it appears to be catching more people in the net and more small to medium winners like myself. |
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Thinking about it he might have said they would collect less PC ,less people in the net might be correct with the lifetime rule although only getting the £1000 allowance once might counteract that.
I very much doubt we will ever get the figures FLL. |
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Coachbuster, it is gradually deteriorating i imagine as a result of more people competing with me. It will take we a while of losing to distinguish between a bad run and the fact that my edge has turned negative but I am more likely to quit prematurely than blow my accrued winnings chasing.
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You keep coming out with this rubbish feckwit, with absolutely no evidence.
How many people do you know who pay this charge? I know a fair few and none of them are doing anything panaroma would be interested in. They're just people who put time and effort into making a profit. Usually without the use of any aids. Software etc. It's why it would be nice if someone on betfair came on here to answer some questions and clear up some of the myths. Or maybe they're pleased with your work feckwit? |
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I know a fair few and none of them are doing anything panaroma would be interested in.
If they're anything like yourself I doubt they'd be "selling a dream" either. Even if they were big winners why could they not "sell the dream". Would "I'm talentless but won a million on betfair" cause a stampede but "I'm talentless and won 800K on betfair" bring about a "fk betting with them" general response? |
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Blank
You could have 99% losing markets and pay pc That's possibly theoretically true but I doubt there are many, if any, real life examples of this. Either way, I don't see how it makes a strategy 'efficient' other than in terms of gross profit/commission ratio and this is certainly no measure of success as many pc payers seem to think. If thats true why are Betfair offering people concessions on pc Who? |
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catfloppo 15 Jun 11 11:16
Coachbuster, it is gradually deteriorating i imagine as a result of more people competing with me. It will take we a while of losing to distinguish between a bad run and the fact that my edge has turned negative but I am more likely to quit prematurely than blow my accrued winnings chasing. _________________________ What i find on BF are 'windows of opportunity' i get the impression there are many people on here trying varying strategies without giving themselves long enough to see through a sizeable sample and therefore tend to give up easily ,maybe they haven't thought through the strategy enough . Either way, these guys come and go and last for around 2 weeks at a time IME ... make sure your competition is permanent before throwing in the towell.[;)] |
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sorry to go off topic of the thread btw
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You can pay it with almost any amount of losing markets really, if your average win and average loss are the same amount you would pay it with around 53% of winning markets. It's not about having few losing markets.
pxb got a concession. |
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I think you need to check your sums, blank ;)
What concession did he get? |
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I think you need to check your sums, blank ;)
checked, on 2% if gives 20.58% so around 53% is correct What concession did he get? a 13 week holiday, you could read it yourself  |
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You might have missed my post a few post's up. pxb said this on page 1 of this thread.
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heynoodles
Date Joined: 18 Jan 05 Add contact | Send message When: 15 Jun 11 00:00 Joined: Date Joined: 18 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 5,451 | Blogger: heynoodles's blog By: This user is online. catfloppo Date Joined: 16 Nov 06 Add contact When: 14 Jun 11 23:27 The pc was introduced because some users were paying too little of their gross profit back in commission and it's not worth having people on the site if they are not paying their way. Exactly. All summed up in one sentence, not sure why we need 11 pages of BS before that point is accepted... Rate reply: 0 (0 Ratings) The report button allows you to report a post, comment, reply or another user's behaviour. I do accept that point. I just think payments should occur when draining of liquidity takes place (withdrawal of profit). Over the lifetime of my account I've paid Betfair a lot more than I've taken out in winnings myself. If Betfair took PC at withdrawal: 1) Liquidity would improve, as consistent winners would be incentivised to put money to work in markets rather than withdrawing (with a compounding effect similar to being able to defer taxes). 2) Betfair would make more from these users overall as they would tend to be bigger players (if you're going to just leave money sitting in an account, you may as well withdraw). 3) The rebates that almost every customer is in favour of (both those for and against PC) would no longer be required. 4) PC avoidance (by legitimate means) would be so unattractive that most wouldn't bother. In 2009 I paid more in PC than commission. In 2008 (since introduction) I also paid more PC than commisison. By 2010 I paid more than 12x as much commission as PC, as I was actively looking for ways to lower costs. With 100%+ average capital growth, the PC I paid would have likely compounded to a significant sum, had I been able to defer. As I've mentioned before, there is a very big difference between a guy with a £3k balance making £1k a week and withdrawing it, and a guy with a £60-70k balance making £1k a week and keeping that money on the exchange to bet with in order to gradually increase profits. One could be said to be draining liquidity very quickly, the other is providing it. The way PC is charged does not recognise this discrepancy. |
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100%+ average capital growth per year I mean...
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3) The rebates that almost every customer is in favour of (both those for and against PC) would no longer be required.
The reason they gave for not giving rebates was it was too easy to fiddle your way out of it. Your suggestion wouldn't make that any harder or less likely Investor. |
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Sorry blank, I was rather cheekily referring to the fact that 47% is rather smaller that the 99% in your original assertion.
I have read the post by pxb and think, if true, that it's very odd indeed and can understand why it would make others angry. |
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btw, 6% is a very big edge for someone on 2%, is this a real example that you know of?
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Feck N. Eejit
Date Joined: 10 Jan 02 Add contact | Send message When: 15 Jun 11 12:22 Joined: Date Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 3,983 | Blogger: Feck N. Eejit's blog 3) The rebates that almost every customer is in favour of (both those for and against PC) would no longer be required. The reason they gave for not giving rebates was it was too easy to fiddle your way out of it. Your suggestion wouldn't make that any harder or less likely Investor. Spot on Feck, in fact I would go even further and say that it would be easier to fiddle out of using my suggestion. That's the only downside I can see though (although you could also consider having to give rebates for legitimate losses as downside for Betfair). The question is: is it worth it for Betfair to have to deal with this issue in exchange for the benefits. Liquidity is the lifeblood of the exchange so anything that can be done to improve it has a very high value. |
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No thats not an example that I know of cat
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On the point of rebates etc...
BF wants to encourage gamblers NOT 'businesses'. It makes sound commercial sense to review an individual's PC with this consideration in mind. Just like every other business on the planet - its pricing policy seeks to maximise returns. A customer grumbles....so review account history/profile "Is this customer good for our business?" If the answer is "No" - You charge him more...he either pays up or leaves. If the answer is "Yes" - then price structures should be reviewed. |
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@investor, though it's an interesting idea the deduction at withdrawal thing wouldn't work imo.
to stop your account going into the red they'd need to hold back the maximum liability as they do with retained commission now, so the customer would get no benefit, and BF would have to wait an indeterminate time before it became income - so their revenue stream would become unpredictable and in the short term fall. |