Incidentally, I stopped betting because the seasonal nature of my betting meant I was going to be unjustly hit with it before they changed to basing it on lifetime profits. It's cost me a lot more than the vast majority of pc whingers.

This was a good thread until somebody came back from the grave and spoiled it.

Feck, have you ever seen the film called "The Swimmer" starring Burt Lancaster?  Or, better still, read Cheever's short story with the same name, which is better, because in that, there is no doubt that the main character is a ghost?
Well, you are like that swimmer, swimming through the swimming pools of your past, expecting people to accept you again, as you imagine that you were accepted in your past.

Thanks Gerbs.

NoMarksman, doesn't sound particularly apposite as I'm swimming against a tide of parasites where "acceptance" is the last thing I expect or want. Anyway, don't worry, this was only a brief return to update the tote situation. They day clowns like you and turtleshead were accepted as general betting shrewdies was the day this forum ended for me. I just thought I'd give you all a wee wind up before I take my leave again. As always it was too easy and, as always, there wasn't a single post that addressed a single point I made.

Let Feck go again, happy in the thought that he's "wound people up" and that people don't think he's an clueless idiot spouting ludicrous garbage, even though just about everyone knows differently, and that supposedly he's won an argument.

Back to the care home where the nice nurses will take care of him

I could understand if it was devised to stop bots, hooverers, insiders etc, but can't fathom why they would want to stop traders and arbers who provide a large part of the liquidity for others to get on.

As you point out, whatever spin they put on, it was a pile of crap.

Feck thinks he is a comedy genius, with his "winding people up" claims. That wouldn't be quite so bad, but the really sad thing is that he actually believes what he says

winton, it is supposed to be that way but as you will read from the forums, some people weren't refunded the first week. There hasn't been an explanation so far.

Feck, if a successful gambler gets his bet matched (obviously with a built in edge on  average, otherwise his success would be based on luck alone), and then has the chance to trade out at a price that is at least fair, should he do so? I can't see any reason in the world not too.

I only gamble (as in place straight bets) when liquidity isn't good enough for me to get out at a decent price, or when I think the price is completely wrong, but I can't increase my bet size further due to risk constraints.

I've got my PC bill for 2010 down to next to nothing and am now around 22.5% charges generated.

There are a few things about Betfair's charges that don't really make sense to me, the major one is related to Data Request Charges.

I was hit with these for the first time in the summer. After the WC2010 there were lots of Games in play, but all of them crap. I was active in a large number of markets (as always), but was getting next to nothing matched. Because of this my commission generated wasn't enough to offset DR. When the games are crap I make very small amounts per game and due to not generating enough commission, I needed to limit the amount of games I was active in, making a bad situation worse. This means that when liquidity is good, I can add to it, although the markets would be fine without me. When liquidity is extremely poor and I make markets, betfair discourage me. I don't get why it is done on a daily basis. I asked Betfair about this and was given the response that they want to regulate DR on a daily not a weekly basis. Thanks for that... it still doesn't make any sense at all.

Anyway rant over, I get around this now by placing a large bet at expected net breakeven to generate some commission. A bit of a timewaster though.

The other thing I don't get is why PC payments don't give you the same benefit commission payment does. Effectively, anyone that pays PC, would be better of making a 'voluntary commission payment' rather than paying PC. If you got points for PC in the same way you get points for commission, there wouldn't be a need for customers like me to take steps to avoid PC in the first place.

I can see that the PC works well for Betfair, but I don't understand the logic behind not giving points. If I was to guess, I'd say that most PC payers just get on with it, and thus giving them points would be like Betfair handing out free discounts.

Whichever way you look at it, PC 'favours the rich' as in low commission customers, in the same way most taxes do.

PC is there to make money for Betfair. The other charges DR and Transaction seem to have been implemented to stop abuse of the site rather than to make money. I wonder if as technology improves over time, the limits for DR and Transaction charges will be increased?

22 percent is too much.

That would be better.

You shouldn't penalise people for winning. Apparently they are taking money away from the exchange. If people put up a lay or a back then surely they want it matched don't they? But if you match it and win then that is a bad thing apparently. Perhaps we should all break even so that Betfair can cream all the commission from us.

I say just charge everyone 5 percent commission and scrap the premium charge.

Which site is 1 percent?

The 1% site is heaven in comparison avocado
they pay you if you put an order up and someone takes it
for every £100 i've won it's cost me 60p
only pain is the clumsy interface
mind you, not sure how long it will last with the current structure

If I ever attend a Bolton match I will bring a good book.

I believe that depositing funds to an Antigua based gambling site may carry a greater risk than depositing funds to reputable UK regulated gambling sites!?

Anyone used this MatchBok exchange? I just checked the liquidity for tomorrow's euro qualifiers and it's not very good. Good commission rates though.

Anyone that doesn't pay at least 100% of their gross profits in commission is ducking under the bar. Your ballroom days are over.

"It's not an unfair charge in reality"

Utter cobblers. It's just about as unfair as you could possibly get, in reality.

The punters who can avoid PC are those who regularly lose and don't have big profit margins. Perhaps someone who has a 2 percent profit on turnover and regularly loses, something like that. Obviously they would have to win more than they lose overall but as long as you have enough losing bets en route to making an overall profit then you should be ok.