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Premium Charge Question
Premium Charge Question
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Replies: 426
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They should raise the commission on winning accounts to 5 percent maximum and then just keep it like that.
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The other option is for clients to pay a fee to use the site. A one off yearly fee.
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Or of course they could do the fair thing and scrap it totally, or at the very least allow somone to earn a few thousand each year before being assessed, and use some reasonable criteria, not laughable ones like "250 lifetime markets" which is designed to include 99.9999% of users!
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one-off yealy fee avocado? so you'd have to pay the same amount if you had won £5,000 or £1 million how would be fair.
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Simple solution is penalise those it was set up for, traders, hoovers, skimmers, 1000/1 free up money types, end of, could not give 2 frucks myself as high street is around the same price without commision, for the former mentioned good idea, for people who place a bet pre game and stick with their judgement is a fking joke and if I ever get charged it then I am off
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Rugbyleaguer, why on earth is it a good idea to penalise traders, without which betfair would basically not exist?
And what on earth is wrong with someone providing a service by laying 1000 to allow someone else to green up and recycle their money on other markets which benefits everyone? What an utterly stupid post.  |
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The worst part about the premium charge is being in a situation where you need to deliberately lose bets to avoid the charge for a given week.
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 you'll have to explain that one Charkitz |
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No worries.
Scenario: Lets say come sunday morning you are up $10,000 for the week. You then work out that your total charges are just below the 20% threshold, lets say 19.9% (and you meet other quiteria for pc, 250 markets etc). This means without placing anymore bets on the Sunday you will incur $1,500 in pc, aasuming you have already paid $500 in commission for the week. Solution 1: Deliberately lose a bet before sunday night. You need to lose enough money so that you go back up above the 20% threshold. So deliberately losing $200 could save you $1,300. Solution 2: Commission generate to the point where you get back up above the 20% threshold. It's very difficult to do this without making a loss but even a small loss could in turn save you hundreds of dollars. A scenario like this is rare but it's happened to me a couple of times on a lower scale. |
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I can't see that scenario myself
if you are only a $200 losing bet from going above the threshold, there's no way you would be charged anywhere near $1500 no matter how much you won surely in losing $200 the most you can save is about $44 |
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"if you are only a $200 losing bet from going above the threshold, there's no way you would be charged anywhere near $1500 no matter how much you won"
Yes there is. The point is that the losing $200 bet could take you back above the 20% threshold which means you don't pay the pc and hence save $1,300. In fact the figure could be $15,000 instead of $1,500 and you could still be a $200 losing bet away from saving $14,800. Your overall charges would probably need to be 19.99% before the $200 losing bet was made but it's still possible. |
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They only charge you on the .01% not the entire $1500000000
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Wouldn't it have been simpler and (presumably) more profitable for BF just to have scrapped the commission sliding scale which favours big players? An exception could be made for hedging bookmakers, so they wouldn't lose that market.
This would eliminate a lot of big players whose pre-commission profit on turnover is less than 5%, so they'd lose some business. Can't help thinking BF would do better out of it, though. |
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I'd imagine most PC payers pay over 4% commission, so I doubt it helps much.
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charkitz - you're wrong mate, it's never a good idea to deliberately lose on here, unless of course you're winning it elsewhere
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Rugbyleaguer, why on earth is it a good idea to penalise traders, without which betfair would basically not exist?
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I no longer bet here because I'm NOT being hit with the premium charge. If I was a profitable trader, a cheat or an insider I'd be able to take a year out and return on identical terms (i.e. 20-22.5% of my profits) but as a winning gambler I'm expected to return on 250% worse terms.
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Its all pretty odious the end of the life cycle of the betfair exchange imv.
The development of the mechanism was paid for not just by customers creating a profit for betfair's shareholders but by the process of the private Income Tax they applied to winners then ofset against that tax to the treasury in development fees. Effectively they piled the tax that should have gone to the state into fattening up the pig for sale. All the players who have been exiting of late all due a nice payout when the keys get passed over to the bookies and the state drills down with regulation. I hope you all had a good decade out of betfair because the next will be completely unrecognisable imo. |
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Ok. I had the understanding that when you incur the pc the actual charge itself doesn't count towards the 'total charges' until the following week - hence it means you either lose money or commission generate to get back up to the total charges of 20%.
On the excel spreadsheet they send me it says: 'premium charge(excluding last week)'. I assumed this meant that the pc itself wasn't factored into the calculations until the following week. Just when I thought I had it all worked out I'm confused all over again [smiley:crazy] |
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I bet your spreadsheet wasnt originally set to factor in GROSS deductions either.
They want your commission paid twice |
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The worst case scenario is that they take 20 percent of your profit, am i right? Sounds a bit like income tax.
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I dont think the figure can ever be as low as 20% as knowbody has a 0% commission tarif.
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20% of your profit is the BEST case scenario. The worst case for profitable gamblers is they take all of your profits and more to give you a net loss.
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To think that at one time they were considering lettng tote commission count towards the pc. That would mean that profitable traders, cheats and insiders would be getting up to 15% cashback on their tote bets while losing gamblers received SFA. They must think the sun shines out of your pc paying @rseholes.
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Time the press highlighted this tax.i would love to know how you get better odds if you pay the tax.
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This cvnting tax will be the death of me.
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another scenario, your employer takes an extra 20 odd % of your wages, you've still got to do the same hours, if not more
also there's a possibility he might turn round one day and say 'actually i'll take 30%' could you 'put up with that' Another scenario. As a gambler you're paying let's say 50% of your wages in tax but some others, who are copying your work, are only paying 5%. You complain about this and your boss raises their tax to 22.5%. They are still copying from you and putting in far less hours. Could you put up with that? |
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Another scenario. Betfair start deducting commission as follows. After each market they deduct/rebate pc commission so that you've paid 22.5% of your lifetime profits in pc commission. Then, each Wednesday, they calculate how much you would've paid under the original commission scheme. If that figure is more than the total of the pc commission you've paid after each market they dock the difference.
Practically nothing has changed. Almost to a man we're all paying what we currently do. Why is it that the vast majority of complainers are the ones who don't pay anything on the Wednesday? |
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The fact you pc calimeros can actually make a profit on betfair shows just how easy it is because you're all fkng imbeciles.
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I'm not on PC but i would be if i'd bet in about 30 more markets.
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My comment wasn't directed specifically at you Avocado. There are some long term professional calimeros on this thread who should know better.
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What's a calimero?
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A little baby Italian chicken wot wears half an eggshell for a hat. Plenty of those on BF.
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That's right, Feck, no-one can possibly pay the PC through skill or luck alone, you have to be some sort of cheat or insider to do so
"I don't personally pay pc so therefore no-one else can pay it unless they cheat etc, as no-one can be as good as me" That's right, all payers are "imbeciles" and not simply good at gambling.. NURSE |
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Depends on strike rate.
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Bot chisellers have a hard time understanding that some people can make it pay by good judgement and knowledge of their subject.
That said, there are probably a lot of cheatring insiders, too. |
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That's right, Feck, no-one can possibly pay the PC through skill or luck alone, you have to be some sort of cheat or insider to do so.
Not at all but if I was wrongly convicted of murder I wouldn't join murderers in a campaign to make murder carry a maximim sentence of a 2s/6d fine. |
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Feck, you probably wouldn't, but you are the most eager defender of a charge that you claim is constructed to hit traders, hooverers and insiders, but it also catches "innocent" gamblers/positin takers.
How come you defend the PC in it's current form ? |
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I heard that a new system was being introduced whereby forum users have to maintain an average factual accuracy of at least 20%.
Premium charge payers are expected to be the hardest hit. |
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Eddie, the entire commission system is sh1t. To say that I'm defending a system that is so obviously weighted in favour of parasites is equally sh1t. The whole shebang is from the same mindset that brought us "if the man in the street can fill in his football pools then he can choose a private pension".
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