General Betting
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
08 Oct 10
19:26
Joined:
Date Joined:
22 Feb 09
I usually win about £100 a week. The other day I won just under £4k on one bet. Will I have to pay premium charge on this?
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 426
|
By:
No.
|
|
By:
Why so confident Wur? Surely it depends how much commission he pays to make the £100 each week? And if he says he 'usually' wins about £100 a week then that suggests a trader or hooverer or some other sort of high strike-rate approach, which suggests a low commission % so I'd say there is a good chance he could pay PC on his windfall. But impossible to say without the figures.
|
|
By:
Well, my understanding of the premium charge is a lot simpler, but maybe I'm missing something.
You make £8,000 a year profit, you qualify. Charge is 22.5%. If he makes £100 a week, that's £5,200 a year. One off profit of £4,000 takes him over the limit, but only marginally, so not worth bothering about. But, as I say, I'm no expert. No idea how a low commission affects liability, but I'm all ears to learn. |
|
By:
How can I find our for sure, ask Betfair?
|
|
By:
They notify you beforehand if you qualify.
|
|
By:
No they don't, although apparently in some instances they give you back the first week's charge.
|
|
By:
There's every chance he'll pay pc
it's £8000 in total not per year, once you're in you're in |
|
By:
I thought one big win isn't taken into account when assesing premium charge?
|
|
By:
no moves, thats the trick that Betfair use to get away with it. They say in the rules that they do not want to penalize people who have had one big win. But what they actually put into writing in the rules is that one individual win that makes up more than 50% of your life time profit (on Betfair) will be ignored. The original poster makes £100 per week and has been here 19 months. You do the maths.
|
|
By:
The premium charge appears to be explained fairly thoroughly in the Betfair Charges section.
KR & Marksman are correct although I wouldn't describe the single big win allowance as a trick. Lori, in the Betfair Charges section it specifically states Please note that if you become eligible to incur Premium Charges, we will contact you before any charges are paid. I acknowledge that it is possible that this may not always occur. wur & curlywurly, I'm sorry but the £8000 figure you quote is an absolute nonsense. The premium charge is based on your lifetime gross profits and not any annual figure as you correctly noted curlywurly but it is absolutely false to state 'once you're in you're in': If your total charges generated are continuously greater than or equal to 20% of your lifetime gross profits then you could make an unlimited lifetime profit without ever making a premium charge payment. On the other hand you could, assuming you had absolutely no losses in any individual market, first become eligible to pay the Premium Charge having made a lifetime gross profit of £5715 (assuming 5% commission rate and no other charges). The Forum Breader, if you are able access the premium charge portal then, in conjunction with the information available in the Betfair Charges section, you should be able to work out fairly easily whether or not you will be liable for the premium charge. If you are unable to access the premium portal, and you may not be able to access it depending on your charges generated as a % of lifetime gross profits prior to your recent win, then I would contact Betfair. |
|
By:
Lori, in the Betfair Charges section it specifically states Please note that if you become eligible to incur Premium Charges, we will contact you before any charges are paid. I acknowledge that it is possible that this may not always occur.
Certainly didn't contact me, other than a vague email about a month before saying that if I continued in my current manner, I would be eligible for the charge. Some people have posted that they got the first week waived, but I wouldn't be relying on it |
|
By:
* curlywurly, I apologise for my assertion that your statement 'once you're in you're in' was false. I originally interpreted that statement to mean something else.
I stand by everything else (subject to correction [:x]). |
|
By:
do you work for betfair?? or have a previous account
you seen to know a lot about the PC for someone who has only been on here for less than 3 months |
|
By:
No. I wouldn't claim to know a great deal about the charge but I have done a reasonable amount of research into it as it could effect me in the relatively near future.
I originally read a thread about the premium charge on this forum. After reading that thread I then tried to access the premium charge portal and found that I could. I have bet in slightly less than 250 markets and have made significantly less than £5715 but my current total charges generated are approximately 7% of my lifetime gross profit. I am fully aware that it is by no means certain that I will continue to make a profit let alone maintain my current strike rate but I thought I had better do some more thorough research into the Premium Charge. Therefore I have read several more threads and obviously the information in the Betfair Charges section. |
|
By:
mmm that's all very well, but it's a bit like paper trading a betting system
you wont realise how much of a pain and how handicapping it can be until it's dissapearing from your profits |
|
By:
Lori,
Sorry I didn't notice your reply until now. Thanks for the info, that also appeared to be the case for a few other people in some of the other threads that I read. |
|
By:
curlywurly,
I would certainly not welcome having a significant proportion of my profits gobbled by the PC each week. On the other hand ifI become liable to pay the charge it will mean that I have increased my gross profits by more than £2000 from the current level - which obviously I would welcome. Anyway I had better concentrate on the betting lest I throw away almost all of my profit with a misclick! Cheers. |
|
By:
jt45, curly's last post is very perceptive. Until you get caught up in the charge, you can't imagine how bad it is. Just imagine that if you had a winning week, you could lose 22% of your profits in charges. How can this possibly subsidize your losing weeks? It was so bad for me that I closed my account. I have now come back to give it another go, but making any profit at all now is nearly impossible. I suppose that the only compensation I have had is that I am now allowed back on the forum!
|
|
By:
where does it mention £8000
|
|
By:
it's just an approx figure where pc may kick in if you win consistently
|
|
By:
Find your premium charged details here.
Login to betfair, and while still logged in goto this site. https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html On Tuesday you will get the results of the previous weeks charge. The money is taken from your account at on Wednesday afternoon. |
|
By:
mya also kick in at £100,000
|
|
By:
You will pay it
|
|
By:
So, you win £50,000 per annum on here after commission. They deduct £11,250, leaving you £38,750 net. I think I could put up with that. Or am I missing something?
|
|
By:
They are taking the tax off you before you know how much you've earnt. That's what's wrong with it.
|
|
By:
"So, you win £50,000 per annum on here after commission. They deduct £11,250, leaving you £38,750 net. I think I could put up with that. Or am I missing something?"
I think most people could put up with that. Another scenario. You win £2k a year (around £6 a day) for 8 years and still get clobbered; according to betfair you are now "one of their most successfull customers" (ROFLMAO) and still get clobbered. Could you "put up with that", or would you think that is nothing more than an outrageous theft like anyone else with an IQ of more than 10  |
|
By:
I think it's outrageous theft.
|
|
By:
I don't see the difference. Maybe it's an 'IQ thing'. You make £16,000 over 8 years, you pay £3,600. Yes, I could put up with £12,400 profit.
Not condoning the charge in any way, though. |
|
By:
Well for someone who "isn't condoning" the tax, you seem to be remarkably relaxed about the effects of it. Would I be correct in assuming that you are in a position where you lose money, and therefore it isn't likely to ever affect you, making you jealous of those who make money and could therefore pay it?
|
|
By:
And if you can't honestly can't see the difference between my example and yours, I would say it is definitely an "IQ thing"
 |
|
By:
But the thing is, where else do you get the bets on? Certainly for traders and people doing intricate stuff with the markets on here, they need to use this site.
|
|
By:
Another scenario. You win £2k a year (around £6 a day) for 8 years and still get clobbered; according to betfair you are now "one of their most successfull customers" (ROFLMAO) and still get clobbered. You then increase your stakes, have a bad run, lose the money that you won previously, and more, yet you don't get a penny back.
Could you "put up with that" |
|
By:
I agree. They are taxing it as if you will make a consistent profit week in week out but that is no the case with gambling. It's very up and down.
|
|
By:
That would be too much information. And the correct word would be 'envious', which I'm not. Don't like the tax at all, and wish the normal commercial economic competition mechanisms applied to betting exchanges as they do to other businesses. But exchanges seem to operate in a different universe.
If a bookie decides to levy a tax on consistent winners, the punters go to another bookie. So they don't do it. Same rules appear not to apply to exchanges. A few will try to make a go of it on other exchanges, but the illiquidity and worse prices, means it won't happen, by and large. |
|
By:
another scenario, your employer takes an extra 20 odd % of your wages, you've still got to do the same hours, if not more
also there's a possibility he might turn round one day and say 'actually i'll take 30%' could you 'put up with that' |
|
By:
Betfair are taking the p1ss with this charge.
|
|
By:
In the perfect world it would be an annual charge based on last years results but Betfair know that half the people liable for the tax would quite likely withdraw their money out of the exchange just before payment was due, rendering collection of the whole amount very difficult. I
|
|
By:
You can't base it on on last year's results either because things vary year on year.
|
|
By:
You could use the same reasoning about income tax Avocado, are you suggesting that maybe it would be a good thing only to make a payment to Betfair every ten years in order to fully appreciate the full impact of the premium charge, I think the exchange might have a bit of a problem with that idea.
|