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I agree RAPS...thats the point I have been trying to get across :)
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Golgafrincham 11 Mar 09:59
"THIS AFFECTS EVERYBODY for the simple fact that BETFAIR takes your money without the 5 sec time delay; thus any mistake placing a bet gives you no time to cancel." This statements just shows you how far off the madding crowds are. The five second delay stills exist, I can still cancel my bet. It looks like propoganda to me and doesn't do any of the community any favours in getting a resolution. Ok my bet matches instantly after that five second period but if I hadn't cancelled it by then I obviously wanted to get it matched at that price. THERE IS NO 5 SEC delay for the betfair's bot, there is no time to cancel a mistake, that is a fact; where have you being last week? surely not reading this forum... |
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test
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good value losers 12 Mar 13:20
3) it actually helps courtsiders and fast pic players by letting them hoover the other side with one bet, even though not at full value Courtsiders won't be hoovering the other side, Betfair will. For example price is evens and will move to 1.5 on the next point here is the sequence of events. 1) Courtsider backs @ 1.5 and lays @ 3.0 2) Betfair only execute one bet at a time so fills in his back of 1.5 for whatever is on the system. 3) Betfair bot checks on the overound and hoovers all the lays to 2.98 and similtaneously arbs this with the courtsider's 1.5 back. 4) Courtsiders lay back of 3.0 will not hit anything under 3.0. I'm 99% sure that this is the sequence of events but will happily told otherwise. |
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i was thinkig of the endgame. suppose player a at mp, 1.1/1.11 player b 11/12 and bits of money all the way out to 1000. courtsider sees player a hit winning shot only has to put in one bet on player a to hoover down to 1.01 and now it will take out all the money on player b 12+ at the same time. maybe they already have trading software that will do this, but it required 2 separate bets pre-betfairbot.
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Does this now mean that a lay of B at 110 gets ahead of the 1.01 backs for A in the matching queue?
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Betfair Customer Services 11 Mar 18:32
Betfair is trialling an improved bet matching process. This work is ongoing and will affect a limited but growing number of markets, although horse racing markets are at present not affected. As there has been speculation about what this change involves we wanted to explain what is happening. Previously we would only attempt to match customer bet requests against unmatched bets of the opposing bet type (backs vs. lays) on the same runner in the same market. That part of the bet matching process remains unchanged. Where there is no opposing bet to match on the same selection, rather than just leaving a customer's bet request unmatched, we will now attempt to match the bet request against unmatched bets on other runners. For example in addition to matching back bets against lay bets we can from time to time match customer back bet requests across all selections, or customer lay bet requests across all selections. The effect of this change is that customer bet requests will stand a greater chance of being matched. There will be circumstances where a customer bet request could be matched by either process. In this case priority will always be given to matching in the traditional way, back vs. lay, and the process for matching those bets is identical to the way this was done previously. Where a market is turned in-play and bets are subject to an in-play delay this also remains unaltered. Bets will only become available to be matched once the in-play delay has expired: backs vs. lays first followed by matching across selections where no other match was possible. Previously if a customer requested a bet that we could not match against an opposing bet (back vs. lay) then that bet could only be matched at the price requested. Because we have not changed the existing matching process of back bets vs. lay bets that remains the case, although we expect to introduce price improvement where possible across selections too in future. For customers with questions on how this change will affect them we will run a Q&A session on the forum at a date to be announced shortly. |
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How shortly?
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Sharp minds........
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These betair ads are doing my head in. Betting as it should be indeed. Matching other peoples bets apparently. No mention of the overround snatching miiddleman in the adverts oddly enough.
Betting as it was before betfair introduced this thieving bot more like. |
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Got an automated holding reply from the gambling commission at 22.55 last nigt promising a response within 3 days.
'Thank you for contacting the Gambling Commission. We acknowledge receipt of your email and will respond within 3 working days. Please note that initially we may contact you to obtain further information to enable us to respond appropriately and accurately. If you need to contact us urgently please telephone 0121 230 6666.' |
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sounds more like five days to me....do you reckon you'll hear from them before easter?
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Wouldn't like to hold my breath.
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ttt
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The Betfair 'bot' doesn't appear to be operating in the England vs New Zealand 2nd Test match. Would anyone hazard a guess as to why not? Are they worried about upsetting the TGC?
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Aussie market - the bot hasn't infested their rugby yet either
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people say feedback is wanted and bf are watching so heres mine. all been said already by others i'm sure - its a big thread.
this is supposed to be a trading platform so the platform operator shouldnt be getting involved. if someone chooses to back when they could do 0.5% better with 2 lays this should be no concern of the platform operator whose function is facilitate trades and otherwise to sit quietly and trouser commission. if i was a bf shareholder i would be very alarmed as this change hurts the bot operators (not me) and other traders who make the markets and provide the liquidity which give near 100% markets on here, which bring in the punters (and so the commission). the other exchanges now have an opportunity to tempt a lot of p issed off betfair market makers to move across, if only to make a point. surely the opportunity they have been waiting for. commercially, why is bf annoying the backbone of its income so much just to save the odd financially unaware punter who would create a tiny overround with an overaggressive back the odd penny he wont even notice he saved? after all bf says is about best execution not their own skimming. careful bf guys before you kill the goose thats laying these golden eggs for you. |
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Bf could have started doing this quite a while back, my theory on why they have started is down to simple economics. The current owners of Bf are desperate for a public floatation of the company, and to get the best price for their stock they need to produce a decent set of results to the City. No doubt Bf is a wonderful profitable business.....but have you compared the earnings with the likes of BillHills and L.adcrooks?
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bad time to float a betting business, have you seen how cheap the other twos shares are? time to buy them imo.
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it would take a good year to roll an IPO out ( i have worked in the arena for a few years ) and in that time Bf would need to be extracting every last penny they can to make this a viable stock option.
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Talking about the aussie market - their regulator would probably tell them where to shove this idea :).
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Over a week gone now, when will the Q&A take place?
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I would prefer to have a reply from the Gambling Commission first and they have promised me that by next Monday (3 working days from Wednesday night).
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still not even willing to tell us which markets are subject to the betfair bot? why the need to mention that it isn't operating onhorse racing at present but no positive info on what it is operating on? why can't betfair at least be more upfront about this affront?
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Agree Charlatan, its beyond belief. Its one thing implementing this controversial new software in such a disgusting underhand way, but to then refuse to tell users which rules they are playing to in a market is mindblowing and so far removed from the GC's remit of ensuring that betting is 'fair and open' that you really have to question the sanity of those making these decisions.
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Useless standard letter reply from the GC. Rang and emailed them and they have promised to respond on Monday.
My question is whether they napproved this skimming bot before betfair introduced it. A factual question which requires an answer, If they give a non-factual answer I'm pretty convinced that they are f@cked. |
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Call me naive but I can't believe they have knowingly approved this and understood 100% what this matching engine does by using the no delay advantage to skim from their customers for profit reasons only.
The GC told me they hadn't approved this. |
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I don't see why betfair have to submit anything to the GC as long as they stick to the rules. Maybe they have, in which case it is up to the GC to implement new rules so that betfair meet their objectives.
Or they could just hand over their responsibility to the FSA with regard to betting exchanges. |
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medemi
betfairs terms and conditions include 'best execution'. betfair are not complying. |
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Betfair will probably receive a warning then, although a fine would be more in place when you consider how much money is involved.
How much are betfair skimming, would 5K a day be a reasonable estimate given thay haven't rolled it out on horse racing yet ? And will the victims of this episode ever receive compensation ? |
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5k a day? are you joking?
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what do you think, more/less ?
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they make 5K with one big tennismarket.
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in fact i would say that 1 big tennismatch can bring them even 20K.
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The definition of 'best execution' has changed with the arrival of this bot, imo.
Previously it meant that I would get the best available odds to available stakes in the appropriate column i.e. back or lay for each bet at the time I placed it. Everyone seemed happy with that. Now though it means that betfair can obtain that price or better by means of combined backing or laying of other selections in the same market or a directly related market. That better price (which is truly best execution, imo) is not yet being passed on to their customers. No doubt betfair would prefer the first definition; we prefer the second, but at least betfair have indicated that they'll move to the latter soon. Let's hope so. |
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long post, can some one explain whats going on in simple laymans terms please. why all the controversy ?
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the optimist 15 Mar 10:19
Useless standard letter reply from the GC. Rang and emailed them and they have promised to respond on Monday. My question is whether they napproved this skimming bot before betfair introduced it. it was according the betfair Q&A posted on here |
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Magician there was no mention of being approved, I think others have rang the GC and been told they weren't aware of approving any changes
Q. Does this change raise any regulatory issues? A. As a matter of course Betfair highlights any changes to the code base or operations to the relevant regulator, in this case The Gambling Commission. Before any change was made Betfair approached the GC and explained the proposed changes in detail. |
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well they condoned them ( by not blocking them) if they did not formaly approve them
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I guess alot depends on how well the changes were explained and if there was any mention of matching up bets where there were discrepancies between liabilities.
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