luckylucas re: 5 sec delay. you haven't got it.

t0 punter submits bet, maybe wrong odds or something
t+5 bet hits market, some is matched by existing money

pre-betfairbot scenario

t+5.1 other punter (or other bot) sees new bet at silly odds thinks ok i'll have that
t+6 other punter with fast fingers submits his bet to hoover
t+11 other punter's bet hits market

crucially, 1st punter has t+5 to t+11 to cancel the remains of his bet

post-betfairbot scenario

t+5.000001 betfairbot hoovers up all of bet with money on other side and betfair pockets the difference.

johnny has stated he doesn't bet in running so it will never happen to him.

Oh, that's all right then. As long as Johnny is safe, fck the rest of us. I'm alright Jack.

Hopefully you guys have made formal complaints to the GC or are going to?

green willow

You didn't get best execution in the pre-skimming days...Why such a fuss now?

Yes, if I placed large bets in running...I would need to extra careful on the buttons I press.If I did make a fat fingered trade - It's not Betfair's fault - It's all down to me. The loss of the extra 5 seconds delay would concern me and I would amend my gambling strategies to account for this. Take more care.

basher, very unlikely that you'll get a reponse to your question, but 1.01 says this is the tip of the iceberg.

AFETER 34 pages in this thread I think we all have the ideas:

1. This is a rip-off
2. This is a scam
3. This was made without any announcement
4. A 5 sec time delay is VITAL for any player, even if that player is Betfair
5. WE NEED AND OFFICIAL announcement, is this permanent? what is next?

if betfair amended their bot to wait 5 secs before attempting to match would peeps still be ok with it being there?

good value losers 10 Mar 10:18


if betfair amended their bot to wait 5 secs before attempting to match would peeps still be ok with it being there?

+++++MAN WITH HEAD IN HANDS+++++++++

Well, Betfair will always have the advantage because they'll have 0 lag.

The ideal would be for Betfair not to trade on its own system....
there are wild speculations on another boards about some malta trading betfair organization where does bf involvement in trading stops?

This has probably been said before, but I'll re-enter this thread with a brief statement:

Anyone who bets in running on markets with 4 or less outcomes and expects ever to achieve a "best price" eg. they put up 1.01 in the hope of getting 1.40 due to rapidly changing circumstances, is absolutely and completely mad. They're throwing their money down the drain.

In fact, it's fairly crazy to bet in running at all until BetFair's arbing engine is removed.

Third approach to a correct calculation...

You insert an order "Back Siena 6.0 at 2" and you can see an order "Lay Siena 6.0 at 2" on your screen.

------ On Screen ------
Lay Atalanta = 3.45
Lay Siena = 6.0
Lay The Draw = 1.80

Lay Percentage = 101.2
-----------------------

You created a surebet (Lay Percentage 100)
You have to calculate the matching bets (Lay Atalanta und Lay The Draw).

Lay Atalanta: 2 * 6.0 / 3.45 = 3,48
Lay The Draw: 2 * 6.0 / 1.80 = 6,67

-- Arbitrage: 0,14.

The Arbitrage must be found anywhere:
1) After matching: Possible Win for all back/lay bettors
2) Account: Realized for the winner

Otherwise the winner is a third bettor.

grafec 10 Mar 10:25

This has probably been said before, but I'll re-enter this thread with a brief statement:

Anyone who bets in running on markets with 4 or less outcomes and expects ever to achieve a "best price" eg. they put up 1.01 in the hope of getting 1.40 due to rapidly changing circumstances, is absolutely and completely mad. They're throwing their money down the drain.

In fact, it's fairly crazy to bet in running at all until BetFair's arbing engine is removed.

not true many many times this weekend I got above my requested odds, that has not changed....and there has to be money taking an opposing view for it to be arbed by betfair....in many cases their won't be

green willow 10 Mar 10:25


No need to be rude Johnny.

1. We are no longer getting best execution. (we are if its there....that hasn't changed)
2. Betfair are only matching bets when they can skim. (not true, they match when they can)
3. I don't like it. (neither do I)
4. End of. (agreed) :)

(man with head in hands)

LL, do I have to repeat myself, the arguement that the 5 second delay shouldnt apply to betfair is utter rubbish.

When you place a bet, as a human you are subject to a set of time issues. As a human, this is natural, we are all limited by this in some way and this time compromises the accuracy of your bet to some degree every time - ie it introduces an ELEMENT OF RISK.

Before you bet - there is the time between your last visual snapshot of the market and when you place the bet. You see an opportunity, mentally process it, decide to bet, and enter the bet. Some of us have better reactions than others, some use various bits of software - in every single case - there is a portion of time between seeing and doing.

Then there is a period of time between submitting and it hitting the market. This is a split second in the case of pre-off markets and 5 seconds etc. in running. During this time Betfair processes the bet, but the market info continues to change as does the event you are betting on.

These periods of time - are the critical elements in this discussion.

What is important here is the fact that all human users are subject to this, this includes the people who will be attempting to take your bets and capitalise on your mistakes.

In markets as they used to be, you would ALWAYS get a bit of time to cancel an error. The only time you would not get chance to cancel was if another user submitted a counter bet, during the periods of time you had to go through before you submitted. This is bad LUCK for you, good LUCK for them. Neither of you KNEW that the other was submitting that bet, and both had that time leakage. Lets forget this scenario and concentrate on times when you could cancel. Why could you cancel ?

You could cancel, because everyone else is a human user. (lets leave bots out of this - I consider these as other users, but it's a different topic)

Lets now examine the current state of affairs. The market has the same number of human users, all with said time leakage and human limitations, with the addition of one NON HUMAN USER.

This "user" is Betfair, they own the platform. this is the same platform that processes your bets. This user has no concept of reaction times or processing time when it places a bet.

--So lets get this straight, no reaction time. since it is in control of your bet, and it is the platform, when it takes a bet - it's described as 'matching' the bet, not placing the bet. it's part of it's job, so it does it instantly.

--Critically, there is no time between it processing and it reaching the market. No time during which events change.

There is NO RISK to this user's bets. Time lapse is part of human punter's risk, this user has none.



***
The key thought here is, if this user did not exist, you would have time to cancel. Given the fact this USER has advantage no other users have, this is WRONG.

Just because you asked for a price, it doesn't mean you should get it, IF - the person matching it has a massive unfair advantage over every other single user. This makes it morally wrong ! Wouldn't you agree ?
***

I have seen that many times, it still doesn't make any sense.....you submit a bet and if there is someone with the opposite view after 5 seconds you will be matched, that is the same.

No amount of bold or silly typing can change that fact!

Whew!! I just saw the bottom half of steadys post and thought adonis was back for a moment.

Can someone summarise this thread please? I've read the first post but don't feel inclined to read the rest. Any progress on what is going on?

That is not a bad summary.....they are giving us another matching approach, but are not giving us the best excecution price and so are taking the extra money themselves

could be

lol, Luckylucas, at least we agree on my point 3, WE ARE NOT HAPPY.