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Forum Meltdown - T Minus 2 hours

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By:
Troy McClure
When: 08 Sep 08 10:44
Apparently winning customers are expensive

Translation "We know we can get away with raping you for 20%, so we're going to do it"
By:
sjp
When: 08 Sep 08 10:46
And what model is being proposed to take '20% from long-term winners'?

How is 'long-term' defined? When is the 'tax' being taken?
By:
The Betf
When: 08 Sep 08 10:47
Feck :D
Your wish is granted. Your nose is cut off, and your face is spited!
:D :D
By:
Troy McClure
When: 08 Sep 08 10:47
Tax taken at the end of each week. Long term seems to be over not sure how long, but after 250 markets
By:
sjp
When: 08 Sep 08 10:48
So if you are not involved in over 250 markets per week - you are not affected, irrelevent if you win...?
By:
true blue
When: 08 Sep 08 10:48
Dr Who 08 Sep 11:42


Betquack must be rubbing their hands with glee.


i hope this is true. I've been gradually changing my approach to make the transistion easier and it now sounds like the time to go.
By:
frames
When: 08 Sep 08 10:48
Each week , fecking hell.What about losing weeks , tough luck or do the people BF are after not have losing weeks ?
By:
Slicer
When: 08 Sep 08 10:49
I for one will start losing deliberately as opposed to losing accidentally wot I am doing now!
By:
The Groutch
When: 08 Sep 08 10:49
do we get 20% of our losses back then?
By:
Troy McClure
When: 08 Sep 08 10:50
sjp - 250 markets EVER, not per week
By:
imlac
When: 08 Sep 08 10:50
My commission charge has effectively gone from 2% to 4%. At least I don't have to worry about when to take my "holidays" any more.
By:
kohaku
When: 08 Sep 08 10:51
Troy - How do you know all this.
By:
frames
When: 08 Sep 08 10:52
Imlac I am lost now , is it not 2% + 20% of profit ?
By:
sjp
When: 08 Sep 08 10:53
Me too - wish someone would just post the 'announcement' rather than talking in riddles...
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 08 Sep 08 10:53
frames - I'll just end up paying 20%, like all the other long term winners. It makes no difference what commission you're on, if you win long term, you will be TAXED 20% of all winnings by Betfair

Troy, while that's the jist of it, it's not exactly true. Someone who opens an account, has 1K @ 20.0 on a winner and closes the account isn't going to be charged 20% of his winnings. Those who win regularly such that their implied commission amounts to less than 20% of their overall profits are the ones who'll be affected. If I've understood it correctly, it will be done as a running total kind of thing (don't know the full details) which would mean in some cases rebates would be given.

The people most affected will be certain traders and maybe some of these 100% correct insiders. If they all fkd off to the purple site, none of us (including betfair) would notice a blind bit of difference.
By:
imlac
When: 08 Sep 08 10:55
Say I made 100k profit last year, but overall paid 10K in commission. Betfair want me to pay an extra 10K to make up the difference to 20%.
By:
kohaku
When: 08 Sep 08 10:57
Nobody in their right mind would play with a 20% deduction on winnings
By:
Stake & Chips
When: 08 Sep 08 10:57
Sounds about right, if you played in more than 250 markets.
By:
Andy Fuller
When: 08 Sep 08 10:57
Where has all this chat come from? No one seems to have a reference about it?
By:
scarecrow
When: 08 Sep 08 10:58
is this one of the greatest fishing threads i have ever seen?
By:
imlac
When: 08 Sep 08 10:58
An email is winging its way out sometime about now.
By:
The Betf
When: 08 Sep 08 10:58
As it happens I've paid about 23% on my overall P&L, so am unaffected. However, I can see this being the nail in the coffin for Betfair.
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 08 Sep 08 10:59
Note - if you expect your implied commission to amount to 20%+ of your profits in the long run then you won't be affected. It's not commission plus 20% of your profits, it's 20% of your profits minus what you've paid in commission.

Betfair say they are not worried about those affected going elsewhere. They are more worried about those not affected thinking it will affect them.
By:
PonteCarlo
When: 08 Sep 08 10:59
"If they all fkd off to the purple site, none of us (including betfair) would notice a blind bit of difference."

How wrong you are Feck, market makers and liquidity providers are the vast majority of volume on Betfair. Betquak will suddenly start increasing in liquidity and the punters will follow leaving much less for ordinary punters. Liquidity is Betfair's biggest competitive advantage, if you kill that Betfair will get killed.
By:
Mc Moonbeam
When: 08 Sep 08 11:01
Have Betfair lost their House ?!?
By:
kohaku
When: 08 Sep 08 11:02
Agree the liquidity is everything. Night racing IR, especially GL & K, is now a no go area for me.
By:
The Betf
When: 08 Sep 08 11:03
One can only hope that they've analysed this in fine details - to the extent that they have identified the exact accounts which will be affected. So long as those accounts are not those who provide the liquidity (the market makets / traders) then all is not lost. Otherwise, all is lost :(
By:
Back High Lay Low
When: 08 Sep 08 11:03
Is this Worldwide?....Seems grossly unfair on people who already pay tax on their winnings.
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 08 Sep 08 11:04
Say I made 100k profit last year, but overall paid 10K in commission. Betfair want me to pay an extra 10K to make up the difference to 20%.

If your implied commission was over 20K it wouldn't cost you any extra. If you won 100K and payed 5K commission without ever having a losing market then your implied commission would also equal 5K and you'd have to pay a further 15K.
By:
Troy McClure
When: 08 Sep 08 11:04
I'm referring myself to my thoughts on a few subjects over the last year or so

"Make as much as you can now, because this isn't going to be here for ever"

It might not be here in 2 years at this rate
By:
PonteCarlo
When: 08 Sep 08 11:04
If true, Betfair will have just killed itself. It is more and more like a normal bookmaker, not an evolution from it.
By:
downto you
When: 08 Sep 08 11:05
Feck, so when do you pay this extra charge ?
By:
CANTERBURY CRUSADER
When: 08 Sep 08 11:05
I trade 1 race per day,it does not take a lot of imagination
what i`ll be doing on 15th may next year.

In the mean time for my small "fun" bets I`ll go elsewhere.
By:
Stake & Chips
When: 08 Sep 08 11:06
Exactly, as you are about to breach the limit, you pull the plug.
By:
sjp
When: 08 Sep 08 11:07
If your implied commission was over 20K it wouldn't cost you any extra. If you won 100K and payed 5K commission without ever having a losing market then your implied commission would also equal 5K and you'd have to pay a further 15K.

Implied commission the key, right? I have paid BF around 10%-15% of my profits in commission for the last three years. HOWEVER - I have no idea how much I would have paid on the losing markets...probably at least the missing 5% or so percent...

As you say - it is those that never lose that have the most to lose here (ironically).
By:
CANTERBURY CRUSADER
When: 08 Sep 08 11:08
What happens if you take your balance down to a few $ just before
the 250th bet ?

How do they collect the "tax" .
By:
good value losers
When: 08 Sep 08 11:09
inevitable development. at the mo, betfair gets all their commiss from losers so they had to try and get some from winners.
By:
Troy McClure
When: 08 Sep 08 11:09
I think I've paid about 5% over the last 5 years. This will hit me harder than most I'd imagine. But I'm lucky that its a hit I can take

Lots of people will change their account etc. I'd imagine BF will soon use IP addresses etc. And there can be no thought of waiting til you hit the 250. If you're winning now, you'll be taxed from something like September 22nd. Its instant
By:
Vim Fuego!
When: 08 Sep 08 11:10
If I heard correctly, for the people who "qualify", if you haven't paid 20% of your profits in any particular week then the rest will be taken from you. So win one week and you'll be charged 20% of your profits. It doesn't matter if you lost the week before.
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 08 Sep 08 11:11
How wrong you are Feck, market makers and liquidity providers are the vast majority of volume on Betfair. Betquak will suddenly start increasing in liquidity and the punters will follow leaving much less for ordinary punters. Liquidity is Betfair's biggest competitive advantage, if you kill that Betfair will get killed.

It's the gamblers that provide the liquidity and none of them will be affected. The traders cannot function without them. I repeat, if those affected all migrated to betquack no one (including betfair) would notice a blind bit of difference. Can anyone tell me why the traders don't just run their bots on betquack as well as betfair and why 'liquidity' isn't the samer on both sites? Are their bots not capable of multitasking?
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