subversion 22 Feb 23:36
thats not what i meant coach

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maybe not, but one set up skills cant be transferred elswhere .

A good doctor would probably make a terrible airline pilot

i guess you've never heard of 'transferable skills' then coach

they exist. just read Knights post for a perfect example

remember ,there are less than 400 people in the UK who collar more than 30k a year through gambling . There are in fact more Premier league footballers .

coach, as i said, that wasn't what i meant

i was referring more to opportunity cost than being able to have 100 different careers, which is the way you seem to have interpreted it, and which is obviously nonsense

Coachbuster 23 Feb 00:35
remember ,there are less than 400 people in the UK who collar more than 30k a year through gambling . There are in fact more Premier league footballers .

That is interesting. Where is this data from? I assume the figure 400 applies to those who have consistently earned 30k+ over x years.

Obviously there will be thousands who have made more than £30k in the last year, purely due to luck.

took £7k voluntary redundo at last job in october

hated it there big high street retailer

i worked in distribution warehouse doing mon-fri 7.5 hours day 37.5 week

prob would of stayed a bit longer but recession
the money men upstairs thought lets cut costs so now would of been

any 4 days from 6 rotating including any 4 sundays from 6 and 6.00 am start and also boxing day bank holiday taken off you for no cost and rotated out so for me would of had max of 3 boxing days off if stayed there for remaining 18 years

horrible bullying atmos there from management team leaders etc
terms and conditions being taken away with union doing nothing to help stating jobs could go blah blah blah

was and still am making loads through various methods arbing trading stats etc and i am better off money wise but tend to do 8 hour days most days especially saturdays sundays midweek less so depends whats on

but i can do what i want when i want and pay no tax no n.i. etc
and i can take i break when i want and its warm at home not like a warehouse and as this as been the coldest winter in my life i am glad i left i feel better physically and mentally

top post duke, i think many of us on here can relate to your experiences

Duke - but i can do what i want when i want and pay no tax no n.i. etc

It may be worth your while paying voluntary (class 3) NIC (about 12 quid a week I think) which would mean you don't lose your right to a state pension (how long did you pay class 1 NIC?).

I've always been self employed so pay class 2 NIC (£2.40 a week - paid quarterly), so thinking about it you would be better off registering as self employed and paying class 2 NIC. Anyone can register as self employed, think of a business and off you go, you don't have to make a profit. :)

Fair point, but 125 quid a year is a cheap enough hedge I guess.

sophiep,

As this thread has received some more interest I felt I wanted to clarify my point about emotion and paper trading.

I still cannot see how paper trading where there is no emotion is a fair test.

I have given a big example (the day at Hackney Wick) where emotion spoiled my betting and turned what would have been a winning afternoon into a losing one.

As a result of that day, and many, many others over the years, I managed to get the very destructive emotions associated with losing under control. That would not have been possible with paper trading.

Now, I will accept that gambling for real with no emotion is a pretty good way to go but then things will become so mechanical I suspect intuition and 'feeling' will be lacking.

So, what I am clumsily trying to say is that I don't think emotion can be completely elminated from gambling but it must be controlled. From what I see on here, that control is often lacking.

Paper trading is a terrific way of seeing if an edge works in itself but a poor way of seeing if the owner of the edge can execute it successfully.

The problem on here is that too many posters just don't have enough experience of punting (or possibly even life) to understand that winning at gambling is 2 steps forward 1 3/4 steps back, 2 steps forward 2 steps back, 2 steps forward 1 step back etc. etc.

Gambling involves ebbs and flows and as long as at the end of a reasonable period you are in front that is all that counts. It is dealing with the times you slip behind that are critical.

Perhaps I do contradict myself a bit but there are no hard and fast rules for pro punting and, I believe, the skills for someone who makes a go of it are definitely transferable.

I laughed at the post which said if you have enough of the right qualities to succeed at punting would you want to be ordered around by a loud mouth at work all day!!

I thought that was very true and very relevant because today, although I am self-employed, I have to go off to Essex from where I live in Yorkshire to put up with a client who is an idiot of the highest magnitude. I will be with them for three days and will drive back Thursday or Friday having to control my emotion about wanting to tell them to insert their business where the sun never shines...

So, there is no escape!!! Wish me luck.

8.5k tax free in four months sounds like a pro income to me!

Those do seem to be gigantic swings for a pro gambler.

I've always found the income to be far steadier than that, although I'm obviously operating to a much wider margin and much smaller actual profit than you're used to.

I've never really had a big problem with the mental side of it, at least when placing/analysing bets. (Anyone who knows me though will tell you that I'm far worse than average when it gets to the point when it's now out of my control and I have to watch and wait, stuff like betting basketball halftimes, or laying bets in low liquidity markets, being all in preflop in poker would all be in that category)

I've also never really had an issue with the ups and downs and it being my income. When I have a few losing weeks in a row I sometimes have to suck it up and go back to working out if I still have an edge or not, and sometimes that's a confidence drain, but it usually only lasts a few days at most while I get back to basics and remove any floweryness (if that's even a word) from my betting.

I'd also dispute that the ups and downs are tougher when it's for an income, although I'm not sure I was a winning gambler for much of the short time in life where I had an income so maybe I don't have much to compare with. You have far more time to analyse stuff when you're doing it exclusively and far more time to convince yourself you've made the right bet. (or work out you've made the wrong one of course, which I also find reassuring. It's when I have no idea i get frustrated)

If you make the right bets, you'll win in the long run, for me that removes the emotion in the long run, although as stated before, the short term passion when someone misses a winning putt/forehand/double/pot is probably as violent in me as in anyone.
The vast majority of the time, 10 minutes later though and it's back to research, thought and analysis

I think there's a perception that to be a pro gambler you have to be winning 6 figures a year. For me, if it pays for the bills and for a holiday or two, that puts it at least equal to any other job, even if that's not the ideal or dream outcome.

Super last few posts, especially The Knight summing up where most very good judges can go wrong

Lori 23 Feb 11:39
Regarding the fun side of it, I remember being asked in a casino when losing on some fruit machine many years ago....

Observer: How would you rate this as a job?
Lori: Four out of ten
Observer: Then why do it? You could clearly do much more with your life.
Lori: Four's as good as it gets.

I stand by that to this day.

You're clearly good at what you do, but I think that is a horrible outlook on life.

As you pay PC, your strategies are almost certainly outstanding. I don't understand what is stopping you reaching much higher profit levels?

I have a similar outlook Lori. The thing with me, and i'm not saying my view is correct and suits everyone, is that i spend a lot of time betting/studying/reviewing and i'd hate, and probably wouldn't be capable of, working a 30 or 40 hour week then coming on here to put in another shift.

Coachbuster 23 Feb 00:35
remember ,there are less than 400 people in the UK who collar more than 30k a year through gambling . There are in fact more Premier league footballers .

That is interesting. Where is this data from? I assume the figure 400 applies to those who have consistently earned 30k+ over x years.

Obviously there will be thousands who have made more than £30k in the last year, purely due to luck.

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I have googled info on this and attained a rough figure over the years ,some of which relates to the USA where gamblers are taxed ,so my figure could be conservative. On here alone i am sure there can't be many more than 200 consistent winners making that sum,and this site would appear to be the prime spot for pro's ..
I can't see many making consistent sums anywhere else . Maybe a few pro Poker players from USA ?

Lori .... i don't know for sure, but with Poker i guess it's a dog eat dog situation ...ie many huge winners claiming the big prizes ,but not too many claiming a living

Coachbuster, I believe that if you take all profitable betfair accounts (let's say profitable over 3 years or more), a very high concentration of the total profits would go to the top 5 or 10 percent of customers. For instance the top 5% of winners make more than the other 95% combined.

Just guessing though, as there are definitely some individuals / companies active on here making £1M+ per year.

I think there's a perception that to be a pro gambler you have to be winning 6 figures a year. For me, if it pays for the bills and for a holiday or two, that puts it at least equal to any other job, even if that's not the ideal or dream outcome.

and i agree that yes , too many people think to be a pro is about 6 figures which ive never really been able to fathom .....surely its all down to what sopmeone earned previously