General Betting
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What financial poition regarding your bank and amount you need to win?
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needs at least a million quid
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A million quid :-)
I like your honesty |
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I recall Betfair saying that even their best *professional* gamblers were working on ROI's between the 8-15% mark, I'm assuming that was over lifetime of the account since there are obviously big swings in-between.
Equating that to a bank, I guess the serious guys here are working with anything as small as £5k up to a few hundred grand. Who knows without actual access to the figures. |
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Where did you get that info from Nath? I suppose they are the gamblers that want to win vast amounts though. You could make a more modest amount on a lot less surely?
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My profit on turnover is around 0.5%. so to make 1million profit we must turnover atleast 200 million. Profits are not guaranteed and profits are possible only if you have edge.
Pack in job or not depends on your strategy and consistency. If you have lmultiple strategies and proven consistently to make profit then it is time to think about leaving job to become pro gambler. |
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i started with £3k in sept 2006 (didnt quit was made redundant) - though mostly thru playing poker . i didnt need a huge 'wage' and withdrew £250 weekly usually.
tbh i have struggled over the last year but if i had a bank of £10k i would be confident of continuing at that rate (£250-£300 p/wk) indefinitely |
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Jolly, the logistics are quite difficult ... take the Walter Mitty thread, he's close on 4k profit this year which is fantastic.
But at what stage do you take that and use it as your income? If you can get 2k per month in your regular job do you take that amount each month? In that case you'd be back with your original bank by now without that comfortable and satisfied feeling of the profits you've earned. Personally wouldnt feel comfortable to do it unless had 1 years worth of annual salary to live on, AND a couple of banks |
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......i think would need a further £5k- £10k separate from my betting bank for living expenses aswell tho
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Some very good responses thanks.
How long would you consider to be consitent amount of time? It would need to take in to account the close season if you mainly bet on football in play. |
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I turned pro at a youngish age with a three figure bankroll... but almost no overheads and a job that wasn't important. I was happy to live in a £35/week room and eat beans, rice and pasta for many years. It's surprisingly easy ... if you work hard... to win small amounts from pittance.
That would be the low end of the scale, obviously. The more difficult it is to get back on the same wage you're on now, and the higher your standard of living, the more you're going to need (and the harder you're going to have to work.) It's also not true that double the bankroll = double the wages of course. When you're betting small, you can get a ridiculous return on investment, you can get bets on at the bookies and life is pretty easy. The bigger you bet, the harder it is to get the amount on at the price you want and the closer the bookies look at you. Also, in poker, the bigger you bet the higher the standard of opposition (as a general rule). |
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*Just to clarify. When I say easy, you still need an understanding of your edge and you still need to analyse stuff. It's not like the money's lying around on the ground to be picked up
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Treat the close season like you would with a job, and take a holiday. cant keep going without a decent break to relax. And spend the remaining time ticking over while reviewing,researching, and planning for the next season
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you wouldnt have to bet every day -some days more some days nothing.
you will find that it can become tedious -like a mainstream job -make sure your life has other interests or you will find yourself sitting in front of a pc screen 8-10hrs day. i personally am looking for a pt job -both for a regular income and the social aspect -you can find yourself turning into a recluse |
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10k in your betfair account will make you about 2k a week(5days) if you know the game and decent teniss is on or NBA Play off.
Dunno how hard is to manage bigger amounts. Certainly it is managable cos i see others doing it lol pre action... |
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Lori : we knew already that you're a big fan of the Schalke04 approach
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:^0
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Some great responses soglad I didn't post in the football forum :-)
I ask as I am have a good job but am off for 6 weeks forceably. I deposited a weeks wage to play with and have earnt nearly six months worth of take home pay in 3 weeks. Ovbiously I am over the moon with this but have just been using the money to pay off debt at the moment. Although I'm not too bad at maths I don't have a proper staking plan or work out ROI so maybe this is just a peak and could all go wrong. I am all too aware of how it can go horrbly wrong though, so trying to keep a level head at the moment an see where it takes me. To be honest I don't think many could do this full time me included as all I have done is spend probably 12 hrs every day in front of a monitor in a darkened room. It wouldn't be too long before you looked like jesus. |
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I also have noticed the difficulty of getting bigger amounts on at decent prices so see where that can affect a bigger bank.
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Do you have a good idea of WHY you've won that much money?
Is that edge likely to be eroded as others discover it, or do you feel you have multiple options available to you.. if you're always betting over 2.5 goals on rainy division 2 games because the market overreacts to the weather then that's the kind of edge that's not going to always be there. Conversely if you're constantly finding edges all over the place, or are confident in your ability to find new ones should you need to, then that's a big plus. Are you willing to work your nuts off in an attempt to understand the maths of what you do better, or are you doing this because it appeals as an easy life? Is reading up on the team news between Rochdale and Grimsby when it's a lovely day outside and your girlfriend wants to take a day off going to be a problem for you? |
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I've been in that position Jolly with money flowing in. Exactly as Lori says I never truly analysed what was going on, and also didn't take advantage of the life changing amount of capital I had earned. You're doing really well to take a step back at this stage before marching on. That WHY is so important.
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Lori -
I watch and bet on in-play football on goal markets. I generally bet when I think the value is better than what should be available. Yes I've been burnt a fair few timnes but that is to be expected. i've played about 440 markets in 3 weeks. I think the edge you mention is that games tend to go from the starting point to then end of the game in a relatively predicatble curve though I don't agree when watching the games they are right. Yes more than happy to work hard on the maths aspect. I'm single at the moment too so pleanty of time on my hands but who knows what's round the corner. |
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Yep, seems reasonable enough on those aspects then.
Just throwing out the spanners for you to look at in advance ;) |
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Lori greatly appreciated.
I have probably been betting for about 10 years now so have learnt a bit. Don't suppose you'd know where I could get a lay sheet to work out the ROI that's not horse racing based? I suppose I'll have to work it myself if not. It's gonna take an age to pick the bones out of what I've done. |
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I went down to 3 days in work back in May 2008, and it's only now that I'm beginning to appreciate having the best of both worlds.
Stability and an improving CV on one hand and a better lifestyle on the other, where Betfair can be looked upon as a serious hobby. I would recommend anyone thinking of going full time on here to have a word with their current employer first to see if it's possible to just cut down on hours as a first step. |
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I had about 2 years salary in the bank before I packed in work.
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Personal circumstances vary a lot and have a massive impact. Giving up a career, particularly one with a decent pension scheme, is not to be taken lightly. Age and dependents are another huge factor.
I made money on Betfair from the outset, but I had a decent career which I enjoyed. By the time I went part time at work (4 years ago) I was making at least double from gambling and had paid off my mortgage. I only did a year part time as it was a nightmare. It was clear to me then that I was far better off on here. Specifically, I went full time on here when I had no mortgage and over 100k in reserve, but my circumstances dictated that I was fairly cautious. |
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If you're trading, the size of your starting bank is totally unimportant.
I started with about £1k about 7 years ago. Within a few months I'd made about £50k. It all depends on whether or not you have a clear edge. |
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The problem with ROI jolly is that if you don't have significant amounts of data, you can delude yourself into thinking you are making fantastic percentages. Of course how much data you need before you can judge whether your edge is real or imagined is totally subjective.
If you are making consistent profits, stick with the day job and take the extra as a bonus ;-). *anecdote alert* A colleague of mine, an ex-Betfair employee told me that 90%+ of all accounts are long term losers (most by only around 10% of account turnover), so it would appear for most, the longer they bet the more they approach the long term average. |
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Some great stories.
Nath I plan on doing exactly that :-) Just wondered at what point people decide to go pro. Ovbiously me winning short term there is no chnance, but to the ones who have bet for years consistently and accrued vast amounts they will think about it a lot. |
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How many banks do I need to make it pay as a professional angler?
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Just the riverbank
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Contrarian 19 Feb 13:52
If you're trading, the size of your starting bank is totally unimportant. I started with about £1k about 7 years ago. Within a few months I'd made about £50k. It all depends on whether or not you have a clear edge. Do you think you could still do that now? I started with £2k and it took me a few years to get to 50. |
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bank size is important if you have no other income stream, and are forced to withdraw a fixed amount from your bank every week to meet living costs
its a heck of a lot easier to make 100 quid a week with a 10k bank than with a 1k bank |
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For me to repace my income of £1000 a month profit would do it.(And rising thereafter even slowly). But would have about 5 grand behind me in case it goes tits up. I've made £200 profit per month recently so I'm improving.
Apparently the richest gambler in the world is Austrailian and makes a few% here and there on horse racing, not sure how but employs others to actually place bets. Not longer after betfair started a man made £500,000 laying horses. These are the kind of people that inspire me! |
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how anyone earns money at horse racing i'll never know!
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The Investor,
No, I think it would be much harder these days. I used to specialise in certain markets that were frequently mispriced - some of the time it was like picking up money in the street. |
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everyones different of course
i had made double my regular job wages, on here, part time, for 4 years before going full time plus money in the bank and almost no mortgage. i've got a family and kids, if i was single i might have been tempted after 1/2 years other factors to consider now though are betfair increasing their charges and possible taxation. |
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i've known a handful people make a lot of money using betfair on the horses, and someone that made 30k on exchane games.... on the horses they made 400k within 6 months with a starting bank of 10k, they also own horses so i guess that helps... the other thing is i also know they have lost money but they choose not openly admit to that.
- losing and being able to admit it as openly as bragging about winnings is a good start to become a disciplined gambler. good luck |
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Lori 19 Feb 12:00
I turned pro at a youngish age with a three figure bankroll... but almost no overheads and a job that wasn't important. I was happy to live in a £35/week room and eat beans, rice and pasta for many years. It's surprisingly easy ... if you work hard... to win small amounts from pittance. not having a go so please don't take this that way but....why not just blitz a regular job for 6 months? surely got to be a quicker way to increase your bankroll initially? |