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Fibonacci Sequence Betting on favourites

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Replies: 61
By:
DaveEdwards
When: 15 Aug 10 23:50
Laugh I do love these people who try to make themselves out to be so superior by attempting to put other forum users down.

You are the clueless fool. Laugh
By:
DaveEdwards
When: 15 Aug 10 23:53
No point in explaining anything to you greenviking, your mind is already made up.

g/l fool. Laugh
By:
Martin654
When: 16 Aug 10 00:54
Kenilworth,.... Inventor of infamous "impossible to loose 8 in row Football System" (which turned out to be just fruitcake plan),.... was spot on with his comment :)
By:
kenilworth
When: 16 Aug 10 09:42
Martin654, Kenilworth,.... Inventor of infamous "impossible to loose 8 in row Football System" (which turned out to be just fruitcake plan),.... was spot on with his comment :)

Martin, I'm not sure what you are referring to, could you explain ?
By:
General Midwinter
When: 16 Aug 10 14:36

scotbet
Why do these threads always get hijacked with "true odds" merchants


Because the OP asked if we've ever tried it.

I have tried it, and other staking systems, over millions of simulations - there is simply no way to overcome betting at less than the true odds with a staking system.

Never has been, never will be - end of.

The system you have to look for is one that identifies wagers that can be placed at advantageous odds.

By:
top2rated
When: 16 Aug 10 15:34
Why do so many people insist on using the phrase 'true odds'? 

Whatever the sport there is simply no way of knowing the true odds for any event.

To quote General Midwinter, Never has been, never will be - end of.
By:
General Midwinter
When: 16 Aug 10 15:50
For any given event, unlikely. For a large number of independent events, however, it is possible to establish with a reasonable degree of confidence that one is overall placing wagers at above the true odds of the events occurring.
By:
buzzer
When: 16 Aug 10 16:28
Martin654, Kenilworth,.... Inventor of infamous "impossible to loose 8 in row Football System" (which turned out to be just fruitcake plan),.... was spot on with his comment :)

Martin, I'm not sure what you are referring to, could you explain ?


I think he's got you confused with kenniky
By:
scotbet
When: 16 Aug 10 22:36
I wasn't aware that the OP was enquiring about the mechanics of "true odds" within betting

I thought he was placing a blanket system (over 6/4s favs) against a staking system
By:
General Midwinter
When: 17 Aug 10 03:18
If he's betting favourites blind then he's betting below the true odds and he will fail.
By:
Beefie
When: 17 Aug 10 12:55
General Midwinter is correct.  It is also correct to say that any system that increases the stakes after a loss (unless there is a 100% strike rate) is doomed to fail.  That is a mathematical certainty.

All the chasing systems - Martingale, Fibonacci, Labouchere, etc. - will, if played long enough, definitely lose, unless you are able to defy some of the basic laws of the universe.
By:
DaveEdwards
When: 17 Aug 10 19:41
greenviking
 
Scotbet totally agree noone knows the true odds of an event happening.Also the same event doesnt happen often enough for these so called edges to apply.Everyone thats on this thread is full of excrement ..............................................................

OK greenviking, either you are full of excrement yourself or you are therefore implying that you are not & as such superior to other posters. I think the latter cannot be true in your case.

My other posting about not bothering to explain anything to you was in reference to what I was originally going to post about the databases that I have that do allow the user to form a reasonable idea of the probabilities of an event taking place. I subsequently deleted most of what I had typed because frankly I didn't think you were worth the effort. For having only supplied partial information in that last post I apologise.

You sir are still a plank.

g/l
By:
scotbet
When: 17 Aug 10 21:10
And that is the key ..betting blind or throwing a massive blanket over a price or range or prices ...will lead to failure ....the more detailed he becomes the better chance he stands of winning - obtaining/find proper/logical trends in betting will only help improve his p/l
By:
formeister
When: 17 Aug 10 21:11
Casino's love Fibonacci.  Funny that...
By:
scotbet
When: 17 Aug 10 21:35
Beefie Joined: 08 Feb 10
Replies: 86 17 Aug 10 12:55   


General Midwinter is correct.  It is also correct to say that any system that increases the stakes after a loss (unless there is a 100% strike rate) is doomed to fail.  That is a mathematical certainty

Beefie , that is so incorrect its fightening .....you're adopting a simplistic approach
mate - like the OP  ,


It seems to me most people on here assume that folk increase their stake after a loss , what about lowering your stake after a win or loss ? or staking more or less in a particular month , week , type of race , type of game etc etc
By:
Artisan
When: 18 Aug 10 19:23
Scotbet

I'm very happy to discuss that with you. Happy

Can you give me an example of a system that increases the stake after a loss that is not doomed to fail?  Then we can have a look at it.
By:
top2rated
When: 19 Aug 10 04:38
Artisan

If I may, here are the results of a racing system I've been monitoring since 01/05/2010. 

It's nothing new and I operate it only one day each week, namely Saturday.  That's because, in common with millions of others, I have to work for a living and Saturday is the only day I have the time to work on it.

As I said before, the system itself is nothing new.  The rules are simply UK racing only, seven days or less since last winning run.

Below is a breakdown of results to date.

    Date        Time        Course        Qualifier        Result        BSP   
    01/05/2010        16:15        Newmarket (Rowley)        Jack My Boy (IRE)        WON        22.73   
    01/05/2010        17:35        Doncaster        Russian George (IRE)        Lost           
    01/05/2010        17:40        Goodwood        Until The Man (IRE)        Lost           
    01/05/2010        20:30        Hexham        Thyne For Deploy (IRE)        WON        2.16   
    08/05/2010        13:55        Nottingham        Top Bid        WON        5.02   
    08/05/2010        15:50        Hexham        Flying Doctor        WON        3.70   
    08/05/2010        16:25        Hexham        Cash Man (IRE)        Lost           
    08/05/2010        17:30        Lingfield        Straight Face (IRE)        Lost           
    08/05/2010        17:45        Nottingham        Whipma Whopma Gate (IRE)        Lost           
    08/05/2010        19:05        Thirsk        Follow The Flag (IRE)        Lost           
    15/05/2010        15:50        Thirsk        Come And Go (UAE)        Lost           
    15/05/2010        18:50        Uttoxeter        Nono Le Sage (FR)        Lost           
    22/05/2010        14:15        Goodwood        Rileyskeepingfaith        Lost           
    22/05/2010        16:35        Chester        Heathyards Pride        Lost           
    22/05/2010        18:25        Lingfield        Avrilo        Lost           
    29/05/2010        16:35        Catterick        Lucky Dan (IRE)        Lost           
    29/05/2010        17:50        Stratford        Tiger OToole (IRE)        WON        3.39   
    29/05/2010        21:10        Cartmel        Mountskip        Lost           
    05/06/2010        14:15        Hexham        Sir Frank (IRE)        Lost           
    05/06/2010        14:20        Doncaster        Hajoum (IRE)        Lost           
    05/06/2010        16:25        Hexham        Ardnaclancy (IRE)        WON        12.00   
    05/06/2010        16:50        Musselburgh        Sea Land (FR)        Lost           
    05/06/2010        18:50        Lingfield        Timocracy        WON        4.60   
    05/06/2010        19:05        Newcastle        Imperial Djay (IRE)        Lost           
    12/06/2010        16:30        Bath        Avrilo        Lost           
    12/06/2010        17:25        York        Elijah Pepper (USA)        Lost           
    19/06/2010        14:45        Newmarket (July)        Averoo        Lost           
    19/06/2010        15:50        Ascot        Sir Gerry (USA)        Lost           
    19/06/2010        16:45        Redcar        Abbondanza (IRE)        WON        2.52   
    26/06/2010        15:40        Newcastle        Camerooney        WON        2.86   
    26/06/2010        16:20        Chester        Ryan Style (IRE)        WON        5.00   
    26/06/2010        18:20        Lingfield        Grudge        Lost           
    26/06/2010        19:10        Doncaster        Crianza        Lost           
    26/06/2010        19:45        Doncaster        Methaaly (IRE)        Lost           
    26/06/2010        21:20        Doncaster        Roman Glory (IRE)        Lost           
    03/07/2010        14:15        Haydock        Bowdlers Magic        Lost           
    03/07/2010        15:25        Haydock        Reve De Nuit (USA)        Lost           
    03/07/2010        15:25        Haydock        The Fonz        Lost           
    03/07/2010        18:40        Nottingham        Timeteam (IRE)        WON        2.94   
    03/07/2010        19:40        Nottingham        Silvanus (IRE)        Lost           
    10/07/2010        14:00        York        Cornus        Lost           
    10/07/2010        14:20        Ascot        Silly Billy (IRE)        Lost           
    10/07/2010        14:30        York        Capponi (IRE)        WON        4.50   
    10/07/2010        16:55        Nottingham        Bells Ocean (USA)        Lost           
    10/07/2010        17:40        Chester        Mejd (IRE)        WON        4.86   
    10/07/2010        18:45        Salisbury        Timeteam (IRE)        Lost           
    10/07/2010        20:05        Hamilton        Monte Mayor One        Lost           
    17/07/2010        13:45        Newbury        Measuring Time        WON        2.11   
    17/07/2010        14:00        Market Rasen        Pure Faith (IRE)        Lost           
    17/07/2010        15:05        Market Rasen        To Arms        Lost           
    17/07/2010        15:20        Newbury        Jaahiz (IRE)        Lost           
    17/07/2010        15:20        Newbury        Bold Bidder        Lost           
    17/07/2010        16:45        Market Rasen        Mutual Respect (IRE)        Lost           
    17/07/2010        17:15        Newmarket (July)        Brandywell Boy (IRE)        Lost           
    17/07/2010        17:40        Ripon        Explorator (IRE)        WON        3.50   
    17/07/2010        20:40        Haydock        Scottish Boogie (IRE)        Lost           
    24/07/2010        14:30        York        Akhmatova        Lost           
    24/07/2010        14:45        Newmarket (July)        San Cassiano (IRE)        WON        10.50   
    24/07/2010        17:05        Newmarket (July)        Explorator (IRE)        Lost           
    24/07/2010        17:50        Newcastle        Ursus        Lost           
    24/07/2010        18:30        Salisbury        Calypso Star (IRE)        Lost           
    24/07/2010        19:55        Lingfield        Chinese Democracy (USA)        Lost           
    31/07/2010        13:55        Goodwood        Wadnaan        Lost           
    31/07/2010        14:20        Thirsk        Face The Problem (IRE)        WON        1.73   
    31/07/2010        14:30        Goodwood        San Cassiano (IRE)        Lost           
    31/07/2010        15:40        Goodwood        Castles In The Air        Lost           
    31/07/2010        17:55        Lingfield        Kipchak (IRE)        WON        2.70   
    07/08/2010        14:30        Redcar        City Of The Kings (IRE)        Lost           
    07/08/2010        16:30        Ascot        Yorgunnabelucky (USA)        WON        12.78   
    07/08/2010        17:45        Haydock        Two Turtle Doves (IRE)        Lost           
    07/08/2010        18:50        Lingfield        La Fortunata        WON        3.91   
    14/08/2010        15:20        Newmarket (July)        Gramercy (IRE)        Lost           


It's currently showing a profit to level stakes but I have a hunch, and that's all it is, a hunch, that increasing stakes after a losing day/losing days could improve the figures.

I'll be looking at this approach for future qualifiers.

Your comments would be appreciated.
By:
DaveEdwards
When: 19 Aug 10 06:54
Top2rated, I would seriously think twice about increasing stakes after a losing day, or after anyday for that matter. The distribution of winners and losers in any system like this would be completely random.

Even if an edge does exist, you are getting straight into the martingale scenario. Sooner or later you are guaranteed to hit a losing run & to tap out.
By:
Artisan
When: 19 Aug 10 07:39
top2rated

I think we can have a very good discussion around this.  Like you, off to work now, but will try to post my initial thoughts this evening to start the conversation.
By:
Artisan
When: 19 Aug 10 07:41
PS - do you happen to have the BSPs of the losers readily to hand?
By:
top2rated
When: 19 Aug 10 15:46
Artisan

I didn't twenty minutes ago but I do now Grin

Here's the revised table......


    Date        Time        Course        Qualifier        Result        BSP   
    01/05/10        16:15        Newmarket (Rowley)        Jack My Boy (IRE)        WON        22.73   
    01/05/10        17:35        Doncaster        Russian George (IRE)        Lost        4.80   
    01/05/10        17:40        Goodwood        Until The Man (IRE)        Lost        4.10   
    01/05/10        20:30        Hexham        Thyne For Deploy (IRE)        WON        2.16   
    08/05/10        13:55        Nottingham        Top Bid        WON        5.02   
    08/05/10        15:50        Hexham        Flying Doctor        WON        3.70   
    08/05/10        16:25        Hexham        Cash Man (IRE)        Lost        7.40   
    08/05/10        17:30        Lingfield        Straight Face (IRE)        Lost        13.88   
    08/05/10        17:45        Nottingham        Whipma Whopma Gate (IRE)        Lost        2.61   
    08/05/10        19:05        Thirsk        Follow The Flag (IRE)        Lost        11.26   
    15/05/10        15:50        Thirsk        Come And Go (UAE)        Lost        4.30   
    15/05/10        18:50        Uttoxeter        Nono Le Sage (FR)        Lost        1.87   
    22/05/10        14:15        Goodwood        Rileyskeepingfaith        Lost        8.22   
    22/05/10        16:35        Chester        Heathyards Pride        Lost        56.66   
    22/05/10        18:25        Lingfield        Avrilo        Lost        2.53   
    29/05/10        16:35        Catterick        Lucky Dan (IRE)        Lost        6.92   
    29/05/10        17:50        Stratford        Tiger OToole (IRE)        WON        3.39   
    29/05/10        21:10        Cartmel        Mountskip        Lost        2.46   
    05/06/10        14:15        Hexham        Sir Frank (IRE)        Lost        1.93   
    05/06/10        14:20        Doncaster        Hajoum (IRE)        Lost        10.91   
    05/06/10        16:25        Hexham        Ardnaclancy (IRE)        WON        12.00   
    05/06/10        16:50        Musselburgh        Sea Land (FR)        Lost        34.42   
    05/06/10        18:50        Lingfield        Timocracy        WON        4.60   
    05/06/10        19:05        Newcastle        Imperial Djay (IRE)        Lost        3.82   
    12/06/10        16:30        Bath        Avrilo        Lost        6.60   
    12/06/10        17:25        York        Elijah Pepper (USA)        Lost        19.50   
    19/06/10        14:45        Newmarket (July)        Averoo        Lost        8.22   
    19/06/10        15:50        Ascot        Sir Gerry (USA)        Lost        65.00   
    19/06/10        16:45        Redcar        Abbondanza (IRE)        WON        2.52   
    26/06/10        15:40        Newcastle        Camerooney        WON        2.86   
    26/06/10        16:20        Chester        Ryan Style (IRE)        WON        5.00   
    26/06/10        18:20        Lingfield        Grudge        Lost        6.97   
    26/06/10        19:10        Doncaster        Crianza        Lost        16.75   
    26/06/10        19:45        Doncaster        Methaaly (IRE)        Lost        16.73   
    26/06/10        21:20        Doncaster        Roman Glory (IRE)        Lost        7.12   
    03/07/10        14:15        Haydock        Bowdlers Magic        Lost        7.00   
    03/07/10        15:25        Haydock        Reve De Nuit (USA)        Lost        47.22   
    03/07/10        15:25        Haydock        The Fonz        Lost        9.40   
    03/07/10        18:40        Nottingham        Timeteam (IRE)        WON        2.94   
    03/07/10        19:40        Nottingham        Silvanus (IRE)        Lost        4.48   
    10/07/10        14:00        York        Cornus        Lost        10.50   
    10/07/10        14:20        Ascot        Silly Billy (IRE)        Lost        26.09   
    10/07/10        14:30        York        Capponi (IRE)        WON        4.50   
    10/07/10        16:55        Nottingham        Bells Ocean (USA)        Lost        13.84   
    10/07/10        17:40        Chester        Mejd (IRE)        WON        4.86   
    10/07/10        18:45        Salisbury        Timeteam (IRE)        Lost        13.39   
    10/07/10        20:05        Hamilton        Monte Mayor One        Lost        6.20   
    17/07/10        13:45        Newbury        Measuring Time        WON        2.11   
    17/07/10        14:00        Market Rasen        Pure Faith (IRE)        Lost        9.81   
    17/07/10        15:05        Market Rasen        To Arms        Lost        7.60   
    17/07/10        15:20        Newbury        Jaahiz (IRE)        Lost        9.01   
    17/07/10        15:20        Newbury        Bold Bidder        Lost        38.36   
    17/07/10        16:45        Market Rasen        Mutual Respect (IRE)        Lost        2.44   
    17/07/10        17:15        Newmarket (July)        Brandywell Boy (IRE)        Lost        11.00   
    17/07/10        17:40        Ripon        Explorator (IRE)        WON        3.50   
    17/07/10        20:40        Haydock        Scottish Boogie (IRE)        Lost        7.20   
    24/07/10        14:30        York        Akhmatova        Lost        6.60   
    24/07/10        14:45        Newmarket (July)        San Cassiano (IRE)        WON        10.50   
    24/07/10        17:05        Newmarket (July)        Explorator (IRE)        Lost        2.00   
    24/07/10        17:50        Newcastle        Ursus        Lost        6.40   
    24/07/10        18:30        Salisbury        Calypso Star (IRE)        Lost        1.59   
    24/07/10        19:55        Lingfield        Chinese Democracy (USA)        Lost        4.23   
    31/07/10        13:55        Goodwood        Wadnaan        Lost        6.25   
    31/07/10        14:20        Thirsk        Face The Problem (IRE)        WON        1.73   
    31/07/10        14:30        Goodwood        San Cassiano (IRE)        Lost        25.11   
    31/07/10        15:40        Goodwood        Castles In The Air        Lost        19.36   
    31/07/10        17:55        Lingfield        Kipchak (IRE)        WON        2.70   
    07/08/10        14:30        Redcar        City Of The Kings (IRE)        Lost        5.87   
    07/08/10        16:30        Ascot        Yorgunnabelucky (USA)        WON        12.78   
    07/08/10        17:45        Haydock        Two Turtle Doves (IRE)        Lost        6.40   
    07/08/10        18:50        Lingfield        La Fortunata        WON        3.91   
    14/08/10        15:20        Newmarket (July)        Gramercy (IRE)        Lost        3.81   
By:
scotbet
When: 19 Aug 10 22:28
Artisan                       
                       
You asked if I could give an example of a system that                        
increases the stake after a loss that is not doomed                       
to fail                       
                       
Yes , a controlled or regulated system                        
and this is how I try to achieve this                        
                       
1st of all I look for 3 main things when entering                       
into a system.                       
                       
1) Steady Strike Rate                       
2) Steady Steady Price (Risk)                       
3) Obtaining  a level staking profit                       
                       
This is very very hard - however its what I try to do                       
                       
I then work out my ranges of ROI and broadly I                        
try to achieve a mid target.                       
                       
However I only  start "moving" my staking UP and DOWN when                       
I go out of my minimum & maximum targets                       
                       
So for example , lets say I have a mid target                       
of 6% - with say bottom & top ranges  2% either side                       
of.                       
                       
So basically , I can reduce my staking because I feel the system                       
is over performng , or increase if it's under performing                        
AND IT'S NOT JUST BASED ON FINANCE.                       
                       
Usually , I make my adjustments only after                       
10% of my total bets ( based on 3 season moving                       
averages ) have gone                        
                       
I only bet on trends , bit like the guy who started                       
betting on the DRAWS in the EPL last season as                       
he felt a correction was coming.
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