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Perhaps someone with better knowledge of football than me can explain this, please.
I thought VAR was only to be used if it is thought the ref has made a 'clear and obvious error'.
Now, if that is true then today's game between West Ham and Arsenal has shown up the stuoidfity of VAR and how it is being used.
Surely, surely, if it takes 4 minutes of slow motion replays from multuiple angles to ask the referee to look again, then it could not have been 'clear abnd obvious' to the referree to begin with? Thus, they should have allowed thhe orginal decision to stand?
As far as I can see, a way forward with VAR is to allow the VAR team only one slow motion replay from each angle. If then they still have doubt, the on-pitch decision should stand because if they need a truck laod of replays to spot something it could not have been 'clear and obvious' to the referree to begin with and was thus not a 'clear and obvbious mistake'.
I thought VAR was only to be used if it is thought the ref has made a 'clear and obvious error'.
Now, if that is true then today's game between West Ham and Arsenal has shown up the stuoidfity of VAR and how it is being used.
Surely, surely, if it takes 4 minutes of slow motion replays from multuiple angles to ask the referee to look again, then it could not have been 'clear abnd obvious' to the referree to begin with? Thus, they should have allowed thhe orginal decision to stand?
As far as I can see, a way forward with VAR is to allow the VAR team only one slow motion replay from each angle. If then they still have doubt, the on-pitch decision should stand because if they need a truck laod of replays to spot something it could not have been 'clear and obvious' to the referree to begin with and was thus not a 'clear and obvbious mistake'.
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The problem is that "clear and obvious" is subjective, what you and I regard as clear and obvious might not be so to someone else, therein lies the problem.
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The fact that it appears that they are dithering and viewing different angles over and over again doesn't mean that they haven't made their minds up immediately that they are going to advise a review, they're just going through the process in a bid to look thorough.
VAR should be booted out and if the clubs wanted it out enough it would be gone, the fact remains that when they last had a vote they voted 19-1 to keep it, so they only have themselves to blame. |
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It was clear and obvious, and a foul on goalie.
The time was taken up by checking all of the other holding incidents to see if any of those warranted a pelanty being awarded. They were not clear and obvious despite rice clearly holding a player. |
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Yes, booty out VAR and impose a ban on SKY not showing endless replays to prove the on-pitch officials wrong. Fat chance of that!!
BTW, yes, clear and obvious is subjective. But, let us remeber that if we went back to the ref on the pitch having the ONLY say then it isn't subjective any more. Football was a lot better without tippy-tappy AND VAR...!! |
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you have to laugh...how do you know that all the time was taken up looking at the other incidents?
And who asked them to do that, then? I go back to how VAR was only meant to be used if something was thought to be 'a clear and obvious error' by the ref. Hence, today, why look so many times at the foul on the keeper? One look should have been enough. It wasn't, so the ref missing it was not a clear and obvious error. Your logic seems to imply that the VAR team immediatly thought the foul on the keeper was a clear an obvious error by the ref and then took 3 minutes 55 seconds looking for something else? Surely not!! If that was the case, why not go back to something else earlier in the game? The cut-off for what they are looking at must start somewhere. Here it was what happened to the keeper, nothing else. Foolish football fans wanted VAR and now hate the mess it is causing in the game...be careful what you wish for is the lesson here! |
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The Gunners certainly do not hate it tonight,The Knight.
All in wrestling in the area by three Arsenal defenders. Clear and obvious my chuffer |
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it is right OP. The rest of the time was spent confirming that Pablo's arm on the keeper was the first foul committed in that phase and that nothing else was needed (i.e. penalty, etc)
I'm happy for them to take that long and get everything right considering what is at stake |
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This was bound to happen one day. A championship decided by a melee in the area . While ever pushing ,shoving ,shirt pulling ,blocking and even hair pulling are overlooked by officials then it will keep happening.
Vat in my opinion were correct but there were also 3 valid penalties could have been given in the same melee. No one knows what the rules mean anymore. Hopeless situation, the game is gone. |
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By ignoring all the wrestling that goes on all over the field now the Referees have ruined the Premier League.
I atched Barca Real last night, there was next to no wrestling and all of it that did happen was punished. PGMOL better hope that West Ham don't sue them for loss of earnings because I doubt they have £100m+ |
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^
Posted that last night,it was deleted by the looks of it. Ridiculous. |
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They're deleting so many innocent posts now that the forum is fast becoming pointless. Even songs on the music quiz (politics) are being deleted for no fathomable reason. If this continues what is left of the forum will soon be gone.
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Mods are on her
Run var mob Close jeez Us Westham fans not happy It ain’t the thing that send us down Clueless board with mix mangers Being useless too negative Nono lost us so many points Beggars belief how negative he gets during a game That’s what send us down And yes we sing got a squad either We haven’t been played by injuries either No var next season in championship here we come |
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You're not down yet Fattie and that's the realist in me talking, regardless of the result tonight.
Let's assume that Spurs do win tonight, making it a 4 gap, beating Chelsea away is not something Spurs make a habit of, so, if you can take the game to an iffy Newcastle, which I've no doubt you will, then the gap could be 1 point again with 1 game to go. You have Leeds, we have Everton... anything could happen. Admittedly, as of now, we have the edge, but this is far from over AND 3 points tonight is no certainty either. |
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Should only use VAR for offside imop. Also if they're saying yesterday's decision took so long due to the magnitude of the game then are they saying the rest of the season isn't treated as seriously?
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They line up everyone in the 100 metre sprint with their body in line do they so offside should only be your foot.
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dont
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MJK - quite right. Its amazing the number of pundits/reporters etc who are saying that they HAD to get this right as if VAR decisions in previous games were not so important. The loftily named "football issues correspondent" on the BBC website is guilty of pretty much saying this.
It seems to have been ignored that Todibo was being held firmly around his midriff by Odegaard (who wasn't even looking at the ball) prior to Raya being impeded. Maybe the W Ham player would not have resorted to pulling Raya's shirt if he wasn't being fouled himself ! To say that Raya was impeded before any other "incident" took place once the corner had been taken is not true imo. The gall of Arteta praising the ref for being "brave" in chalking off the goal is nauseating when he has hissy fits when any decision goes against his team. Arsenal of course are the chief architects of the unseemly melees we frequently see at corners now, it is almost making the game unwatchable. But then this is the most average EPL season i can remember, totally forgettable apart from the controversies such as this one. And as such, the EPL ends up with the champions they deserve. At the HD stadium in December Everton were denied a clear penalty when playing Arsenal who ended up winning 1-0, potentially crucial in the title race. For balance, it should be remembered that a couple of weeks ago the Hammers benefited from a ludicrous decision to not award Everton a penalty at the London stadium. Another controversial incident which could potentially have had a large bearing on their relegation battle. Funnily enough, the same VAR official (Michael Salisbury) was on duty for both of the above mentioned matches, maybe he just has a grudge against the toffees  |
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raya was almost garrotted. if that wasnt a foul dont know what is. as for the argument there were multiple fouls in the box and that kind of thing has gone on all season thats not much of a defence is it. that just says that the penalty box shenanigans should have been dealt with rather than a blind eye being turned. seriously how does anyone unless a west ham fan not think that was a foul on raya. beggars belief.
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see your point dixie about previous fouls. the whole penalty box thing is a complete mess. how to solve ive no idea as going from the first infringement means further infringements go unpunished.
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oh and full disclosure. im not an arsenal fan so there is no bias
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It starts before ball is played, then they try to let
go otherwise a foul is given. Pre ball in play ref can issue a card They choose not to. There were clearly fouls before goalie was fouled They chose to ignore them, or deem them insignificant |
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Didn’t West Ham have another chance to score gifted to them?
Keep blaming Var for correctly picking out a foul on Raya and forget a sitter was missed! Lots on here saying Arsenal would bottle it, turns out the lad who missed a sitter did! Great bit of skill from Odegard to pick the pockets of those on the parked bus! |
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Nobody is saying Raya was not impeded tobiasr (i clearly wasn't), but why should keepers be any different to any other player that is fouled at a set piece ?
Garrotted ffs do you actually know garrotting is? You seem to be ignoring the fact that at least one West Ham player was being held prior to the Raya foul. Yes it has been going on all season, you are correct in saying that. But then so has keepers being impeded in similar ways to Raya yesterday, yet goals have been allowed to stand , that is why there has been so much controversy over yesterdays decision. |
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yes i know. deliberate exaggeration to make a point. and as i said, the argument that var has cocked up corners all season so far as a defence is thin to say the least and definitely clutching at straws
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One west ham player was choking, good job rice performed
heimlich manoeuvre on him, I thought rice was trying to prevent him reaching the ball, but var just decided he was helping him out. |
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the foul on raya was definitely the most egregious. surely you cant argue that. he had an arm across his throat.
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Rice foul was before goalie was garrotted
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the bottom line is that corners have been an embarrassment to the sport all season. the first thing that needs to change is the idea that you can do what you like in the box before the corner is delivered. 'live' or not, wrestling should not be tolerated at all.
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A foul is a foul - if a player gets tripped by an opponent and a free kick is awarded, then the fact he gets up and lamps the guy who fouled him does not mean the free kick then goes the other way just because decking someone with a right hook is "most egregious "
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Absolutely
Refs need to get the cards out |
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wrestling at set pieces should indeed be banned, agree with you there
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You should be allowed to punch someone in face if he is pulling your shirt off
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yes dixie no arguments there. but then its like i said, how do you solve the issue of multiple infringements in quick succession.
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as was pointed out earlier, rightly or wrongly var took the view that previous fouls were not worth sanction but the impediment of raya was.
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Sickner but it's gone now.
Nothing will change the result. |
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That’s it
It’s gone now Prey for football sake PSG Beat football terrorists sake jeez h how bad has he fallen Nonexistent on right yesterday Been like that most of season |
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The first foul is Pablo on Raya, shirt pull and persistent arm across chest. Once the free kick is given for the foul on Raya the Rice engagement with Mavropanos is irrelevant as it was happening after Raya failed to catch the ball.
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Todibo was being held long before that.Only was let go
after the ball went in in. |