VAR..am I wrong here?

The problem is that "clear and obvious" is subjective, what you and I regard as clear and obvious might not be so to someone else, therein lies the problem.

The fact that it appears that they are dithering and viewing different angles over and over again doesn't mean that they haven't made their minds up immediately that they are going to advise a review, they're just going through the process in a bid to look thorough.

VAR should be booted out and if the clubs wanted it out enough it would be gone, the fact remains that when they last had a vote they voted 19-1 to keep it, so they only have themselves to blame.

It was clear and obvious, and a foul on goalie.

The time was taken up by checking all of the other holding incidents
to see if any of those warranted a pelanty being awarded.

They were not clear and obvious despite rice clearly holding a player.

Yes, booty out VAR and impose a ban on SKY not showing endless replays to prove the on-pitch officials wrong. Fat chance of that!!

BTW, yes, clear and obvious is subjective. But, let us remeber that if we went back to the ref on the pitch having the ONLY say then it isn't subjective any more. Football was a lot better without tippy-tappy AND VAR...!!

you have to laugh...how do you know that all the time was taken up looking at the other incidents?

And who asked them to do that, then?

I go back to how VAR was only meant to be used if something was thought to be 'a clear and obvious error' by the ref.

Hence, today, why look so many times at the foul on the keeper? One look should have been enough. It wasn't, so the ref missing it was not a clear and obvious error.

Your logic seems to imply that the VAR team immediatly thought the foul on the keeper was a clear an obvious error by the ref and then took 3 minutes 55 seconds looking for something else? Surely not!!

If that was the case, why not go back to something else earlier in the game? The cut-off for what they are looking at must start somewhere. Here it was what happened to the keeper, nothing else.

Foolish football fans wanted VAR and now hate the mess it is causing in the game...be careful what you wish for is the lesson here!

The Gunners certainly do not hate it tonight,The Knight.
All in wrestling in the area by three Arsenal defenders.
Clear and obvious my chuffer

it is right OP. The rest of the time was spent confirming that Pablo's arm on the keeper was the first foul committed in that phase and that nothing else was needed (i.e. penalty, etc)

I'm happy for them to take that long and get everything right considering what is at stake

This was bound to happen one day. A championship decided by a melee in the area . While ever pushing ,shoving ,shirt pulling ,blocking and even hair pulling are overlooked by officials then it will keep happening.
Vat in my opinion were correct but there were also 3 valid penalties could have been given in the same melee. No one knows what the rules mean anymore. Hopeless situation, the game is gone.

May 10, 2026 -- 11:19PM, Flemenstar wrote:

it is right OP. The rest of the time was spent confirming that Pablo's arm on the keeper was the first foul committed in that phase and that nothing else was needed (i.e. penalty, etc)I'm happy for them to take that long and get everything right considering what is at stake

This.

Arm across keeper chest and shirt pull from behind, understandably missed by the ref, with everything else going on. Exactly what VAR is for; checking following a goal to ensure ref hasn't missed something in lead up to the goal.

By ignoring all the wrestling that goes on all over the field now the Referees have ruined the Premier League.

I atched Barca Real last night, there was next to no wrestling and all of it that did happen was punished.


PGMOL better hope that West Ham don't sue them for loss of earnings because I doubt they have £100m+

^
Posted that last night,it was deleted by the looks of it.
Ridiculous.

They're deleting so many innocent posts now that the forum is fast becoming pointless. Even songs on the music quiz (politics) are being deleted for no fathomable reason. If this continues what is left of the forum will soon be gone.

Mods are on her
Run var mob
Close jeez

Us Westham fans not happy
It ain’t the thing that send us down
Clueless board with mix mangers
Being useless too negative
Nono lost us so many points
Beggars belief how negative he gets during a game
That’s what send us down
And yes we sing got a squad either
We haven’t been played by injuries either

No var next season in championship here we come

You're not down yet Fattie and that's the realist in me talking, regardless of the result tonight.

Let's assume that Spurs do win tonight, making it a 4 gap, beating Chelsea away is not something Spurs make a habit of, so, if you can take the game to an iffy Newcastle, which I've no doubt you will, then the gap could be 1 point again with 1 game to go. You have Leeds, we have Everton... anything could happen.

Admittedly, as of now, we have the edge, but this is far from over AND 3 points tonight is no certainty either.

Should only use VAR for offside imop. Also if they're saying yesterday's decision took so long due to the magnitude of the game then are they saying the rest of the season isn't treated as seriously?

They line up everyone in the 100 metre sprint with their body in line do they so offside should only be your foot.

dont

MJK - quite right. Its amazing the number of pundits/reporters etc who are saying that they HAD to get this right as if VAR decisions in previous games were not so important. The loftily named "football issues correspondent" on the BBC website is guilty of pretty much saying this.



It seems to have been ignored that Todibo was being held firmly around his midriff by Odegaard (who wasn't even looking at the ball) prior to Raya being impeded. Maybe the W Ham player would not have resorted to pulling Raya's shirt if he wasn't being fouled himself ! To say that Raya was impeded before any other "incident" took place once the corner had been taken is not true imo.

The gall of Arteta praising the ref for being "brave" in chalking off the goal is nauseating when he has hissy fits when any decision goes against his team.
Arsenal of course are the chief architects of the unseemly melees we frequently see at corners now, it is almost making the game unwatchable.
But then this is the most average EPL season i can remember, totally forgettable apart from the controversies such as this one.
And as such, the EPL ends up with the champions they deserve.

At the HD stadium in December Everton were denied a clear penalty when playing Arsenal who ended up winning 1-0, potentially crucial in the title race.

For balance, it should be remembered that a couple of weeks ago the Hammers benefited from a ludicrous decision to not award Everton a penalty at the London stadium.
Another controversial incident which could potentially have had a large bearing on their relegation battle.

Funnily enough, the same VAR official (Michael Salisbury)  was on duty for both of the above mentioned matches, maybe he just has a grudge against the toffees

raya was almost garrotted. if that wasnt a foul dont know what is. as for the argument there were multiple fouls in the box and that kind of thing has gone on all season thats not much of a defence is it. that just says that the penalty box shenanigans should have been dealt with rather than a blind eye being turned. seriously how does anyone unless a west ham fan not think that was a foul on raya. beggars belief.

see your point dixie about previous fouls. the whole penalty box thing is a complete mess. how to solve ive no idea as going from the first infringement means further infringements go unpunished.

oh and full disclosure. im not an arsenal fan so there is no bias

It starts before ball is played, then they try to let
go otherwise a foul is given.

Pre ball in play ref can issue a card

They choose not to.

There were clearly fouls before goalie was fouled

They chose to ignore them, or deem them insignificant

Didn’t West Ham have another chance to score gifted to them?

Keep blaming Var for correctly picking out a foul on Raya and forget a sitter was missed!

Lots on here saying Arsenal would bottle it, turns out the lad who missed a sitter did!

Great bit of skill from Odegard to pick the pockets of those on the parked bus!

Nobody is saying Raya was not impeded tobiasr (i clearly wasn't), but why should keepers be any different to any other player that is fouled at a set piece ? 

Garrotted ffs   do you actually know garrotting is?

You seem to be ignoring the fact that at least one West Ham player was being held prior to the Raya foul. Yes it has been going on all season, you are correct in saying that. But then so has keepers being impeded in similar ways to Raya yesterday, yet goals have been allowed to stand , that is why there has been so much controversy over yesterdays decision.

yes i know. deliberate exaggeration to make a point. and as i said, the argument that var has cocked up corners all season so far as a defence is thin to say the least and definitely clutching at straws

One west ham player was choking, good job rice performed
heimlich manoeuvre on him,

I thought rice was trying to prevent him
reaching the ball, but var just decided he
was helping him out.

the foul on raya was definitely the most egregious. surely you cant argue that. he had an arm across his throat.

Rice foul was before goalie was garrotted

the bottom line is that corners have been an embarrassment to the sport all season. the first thing that needs to change is the idea that you can do what you like in the box before the corner is delivered. 'live' or not, wrestling should not be tolerated at all.

A foul is a foul - if a player gets tripped by an opponent and a free kick is awarded, then the fact he gets up and lamps the guy who fouled him does not mean the free kick then goes the other way just because decking someone with a right hook is "most egregious "

Absolutely

Refs need to get the cards out

wrestling at set pieces should indeed be banned, agree with you there

You should be allowed to punch someone in face if he is pulling your shirt off

yes dixie no arguments there. but then its like i said, how do you solve the issue of multiple infringements in quick succession.

as was pointed out earlier, rightly or wrongly var took the view that previous fouls were not worth sanction but the impediment of raya was.

Sickner but it's gone now.
Nothing will change the result.

That’s it
It’s gone now
Prey for football sake
PSG Beat football terrorists
sake jeez h how bad has he fallen
Nonexistent on right yesterday
Been like that most of season

The first foul is Pablo on Raya, shirt pull and persistent arm across chest. Once the free kick is given for the foul on Raya the Rice engagement with Mavropanos is irrelevant as it was happening after Raya failed to catch the ball.

Todibo was being held long before that.Only was let go
after the ball went in in.

May 11, 2026 -- 2:17PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

Rice foul was before goalie was garrotted

That happens at every corner for every club.

What DOESN'T happen, is that the goalie's arm gets held so he can't catch a cross into the box.

Wanchors like Shay Given are unable to provide evidence of where AFC players have held a goalie's arm to prevent him catching a cross & a goal has resulted.

Wes - although he was impeded, Raya got both hands to the ball. A stronger keeper like Pat Jennings would have caught it

Other keepers have suffered similar (or worse) this season when a goal has been allowed to stand. That is why people are questioning this decision

The obvious foul was the holding of Todibo which occurred before Raya was impeded.

Again, just point me to a single example where a goalie's arm has been held down & a goal has stood? Just one?

I remember Trossard had a worldy chalked off against Leicester a few seasons ago because Ben White had interfered with the keeper's arm.

Arsenal scored when man utd goalies arm was held in game week 1

Goal stood

It was a foul, I was complaining in the immediate aftermath but I knew it was a foul as I imagine most people know it was a foul.

It's simply a case that VAR is so despised now that even when it gets one right the fact that it is involved is enough for the red mist to descend.

YHTL,

Just had a look at that again, the Arsenal plaer was backing in to him that put him off balance which prevented him getting a proper punch on it but his arm wasn't pinned really.

May 11, 2026 -- 4:59PM, duffy wrote:

YHTL,Just had a look at that again, the Arsenal plaer was backing in to him that put him off balance which prevented him getting a proper punch on it but his arm wasn't pinned really.

Correct.
It's pointless arguing with these flat earthers.

it's not?

YHTL is a good old stick to be fair, the red United are his second favourite team behind the black and white one

The Man Utd example - keeper may not have had an arm across him but it was certainly a foul by Saliba backing in to him.

Bit rich of Wes to be insulting others who are simply pointing out that an Arsenal goal was allowed when the opposition keeper was fouled earlier in the season.

Surely a foul is a foul, arm use or not.

There's an actual photo in circulation of saliba holding his arm.

There's always subjectivity, and I'd be disappointed if foul on raya was not given.

Same as I'd like all fouls on goalies given

Shame the ref missed it really, as it was so obvious, and thats
a worry as it was a competition for the ball.

Going back to the corner, the timeline was as follows:

Soucek on Havertz - Tomas Soucek was climbing over the back of Havertz
Odegaard on Tobido - Both were engaged in mutual holding
Pablo on Raya - Pablo's arm was directly across Raya as well as holding the goalkeeper's left arm with his hand
Tobido on Raya - Pulling the back of Raya's shirt
Rice on Mavropanos - Rice arms around the waist of West Ham's Konstantinos Mavropanos

Other similar incidents involving Arsenal:

Saliba on Bayindir - Contact with arm of Bayindir, did not prevent the keeper from attempting to reach the ball
Gabriel on Martinez - Contact with the goalkeeper's arm, With no holding or clear restriction of movement

Conclusion is Arsenal are just better than any other team at crowding goalkeepers without breaking the rules.

Did not prevent him attempting to reach the ball


Yeah, just like raya

Raya was impeded but did get both hands on the ball and spilled it.

Bayindir was being backed in to , with Saliba not attempting to play the ball and preventing the keeper from attempting to reach it.
Therefore it should have been given as a foul.

It's nothing to do with being "better at crowding the keeper" - a foul is a foul.

No red cards and no pelanties conceded all season

Team of angels

VAR is a Rsole,,,,

Fair points.

Something that struck me funny I heard on a pod is that in the past in big moments at the end of seasons we've had famous quotes like.

"It's up for grabs now"

"Will they score, they always score"

"Manchester City are champions! Agüerooooo! I swear you’ll never see anything like this ever again! So watch it, drink it in!".

Now we can add to those classic moments,

"After review"

depressing isnt it duffy

I think getting decisions correct is important.

This epic seethe is only because it means The Arsenal are a step closer to winning the EPL.

Well the gunners have been number one in the EPL for some time Wes - as far as ripping off fans with the highest priced season tickets in the division goes

^
Well to be fair the SOFI stadium did cost 5.5 billion to build, why ask the Rams and Charger fans to pay for it when you've got the Arsenal fans on hand to stump up the money.

I thought Fulham were the most expensive, followed by Spurs:

Team------ season avmatch
Fulham---- £3,084 £162
Tottenham- £2,367 £124
Arsenal--- £2,112 £91
WestHam--- £1,720 £90
Chelsea--- £1,064 £56
Brentford--- £598 £31

These wanchors continually talk sh!te & can't even find correct reasons to hate The Arsenal.

How retarded.

I don't hate Arsenal and neither do most neutrals, as SAF softened toward Arsenal as they became a non entity so it is now that most of us want the  side not used to winning to prevail over City anyday.

I'm not so sure about that.

https://x.com/EGTVEgal/status/2051524151051981067?s=20

There's a couple of reasons for that, one is that of course Arsenal are the established "bigger" club whilst City can be sill viewed as the Johnny come lately that many still couldn't really give a toss about which winds up City fans and the other reason is that if City do win it, everyone else can say it has a giant asterisk against it.

So wesdag thinks you need a "correct" reason to "hate" Arsenal, WAC .     

Storm Alert - the figures that you quoted above are for the dearest individual season ticket such as the Fulham one with hospitality and so on.


The price that many supporters pay, the cheapest annual ticket, is £1127  at arsenal which is comfortably the dearest of that type in the EPL.
There are multiple sources out there with this info.

I see the women's team got a helping hand from the officials tonight as well - 93rd minute winner at the Emirates that was not only offside but was a foul on the keeper , what's good for the men......

Hardly surprising London clubs are the most expensive and things are cheaper up north. That's the way it generally is.

West Ham are the cheapest on that list

That's only because you need a pair of binoculus to be able the pitch in that stadium

^^^ certainly wasnt offside and if anything the goalkeeper rugby tackled the arsenal striker

although she did play the ball first

Keep clutching at straws Dixie lad.

Just emerged from your bunker wes ?

It reminded me of Maradona's "hand of God" incident.
But he made sure it was remembered - he give it a catchy name.