Moyes - Keane “accidentally” tugged the boy’s hair.

Apparently he was trying to grab his collar,
and got a fist full of hair.

Hey ho.

moyes unlikely to care about a hair pull when he couldn't get zouma back in the team quick enough at wet ham after he abused a cat

laughable to say it was accidental. how do you pull hair by accident. keane had to grip it and you cant grip something accidentally

even the grabbing his collar line is hilarious. as if that's in the rules of the game

anyone with a shred of decency would have binned zouma off for that behaviour. as it was though he improved the west ham team which was all moyes was interested in. no place for morals and decency when there's pound notes to chase after

Wrexham keeper deserved that. Chose right, and was close, to nearly every Forest pen

Wrong thread

tobiasr certainly has an axe to grind

It should have been up to the West Ham hierarchy to suspend or bar Zouma from playing, not the manager. They were the ones who paid his wages .   

Who knows what Keanes's intentions were ? All i would say is he has never been dismissed before for violent conduct in over 350 games so at the very least it was totally out of character. I think toffees fans were more incensed about the lack of consistency by the officials, particularly Kavanagh on VAR (he has history with EFC) who somehow decided that Hwang's awful challenge on Harrison Armstrong did not require his intervention whereas Keane's hair pull did.

Not hard to imagine you’re an Everton fan. So of course anything said against moyes isn’t for you. Fair enough. My point about Zouma wasn’t about who had sanctioning power it was about what sort of person a manager wants in their team. If behaviour like that from zouma doesn’t show him to he’s reprehensible individual I’m not sure what does and who would want someone like that in a dressing room. Answer of course is anyone who puts success on a pitch above everything else. Zouma was a good player so his behaviour was tolerated. If it had been a minor player that wasn’t in the first team that was responsible they’d have been gotten rid of without question

The line about keanes previous good behaviour doesn’t really cut it either. If anything all it suggests is Keane has got away with the dark arts before. Can only repeat what I said before which is what sort of defence is it to say he was trying to grab his collar… was Keane actually trying to choke the other player then because that’s what grabbing the collar from behind would do

The lack of consistency about var is another point and it’s impossible to disagree with the idea that consistency is lacking because the challenge by the wolves player was awful as you mentioned

FYI I have criticised DM in the past, but he is not doing anything differently to what the vast majority of EPL managers would do, so lets get that straight.

It is not up to the manager to discipline a player for doing what Zouma did - that is the owners responsibility, he is their asset after all.

During his first spell at EFC he would at times be too defensive and i and others criticised him for that. A particular case being  the 2012 FA Cup semi against our lovely neighbours when we should have not sat on a 1 nil lead. But overall he did a cracking job.

If you really think that Keane has been getting away with such things for over a decade with nobody  noticing , then discussing it further is pretty futile i'm afraid.

It is up to him whether he wants him in his team. Moyes could have said I do not want someone like that in my team. Managers have got rid of players for much less. What I meant about Keane is it’s not hard to imagine he’s tried tricks like that before and got away with it. The fact he’s never been sent off for violent conduct before is irrelevant and also no defence for the first time it’s happened.

In law it would be called mitigation (i.e Keanes long career without a similar occurrence).  If anything the lad has been too "nice" over the years, we have often derided him for not getting stuck in enough and giving forwards more to think about.  Now his partner in defence, Tarkowski , is a different matter

If looking at the situation from a law perspective and using law terminology then it’s an aggravating factor that moyes had no problem with zoumas behaviour and now he’s trying to defend keanes indefensible behaviour. Utterly laughable to say it’s accidental and then to suggest that even if it isn’t it’s no big deal and why were var even looking at it

It's what managers do tobiasr, surely you've noticed by now - they all defend their players publicly but you can be sure that behind closed doors it's a different matter.

I don’t think Keane is a repetitively  dirty player at all but he certainly meant the hair pull.  Why I don’t know.  Had there been niggle earlier?
I agree Dixie.  Moyes sent them out at half-time in the wrong frame of mind/with negative thoughts.  They had â€�pool on the ropes and should have gone for the jugular.  Jagielka let the Uruguayan pick his pocket and it was all uphill after that.  Shame.

I imagine there had been something happen earlier Honcho, it was all very strange.  Keane is one of the most mild mannered of guys usually, maybe he's learning a few nasties from Tarkowski playing alongside him all season   The toffees are going to struggle to put a team out in the cup match this lunchtime, only about 13 first team players available for definite. I certainly won't be backing them and am surprised they are favs with the bookies.

That semi final defeat really stung and i'm sure Moyes regrets not going for it as the Reds were there for the taking.

It was Grealish who disgusted me, and Moyes, clearly.  What a privileged moron.  Who does he think he is disrespecting people like that?

He was a bit silly i agree but the officials had not been the best and it was just frustration.

Its rather ironic that Jack gets constantly fouled during matches with hardly any opponents getting booked (Bradley in the derby game in Sept fouled him 4 or 5 times without sanction) but he gives a bit of dissent and gets sent off. Try explaining that to an alien

I'd love to know the name of a manager who hasn't put success over morality. Feel like we might have been watching different sports over the last couple of decades or so.

with the rules as they are and not how people think they should be, for all those fans,managers,pundits,players  bleating about every decision on social media as though their proff reffs,if you think in this week alone
forest pen
west ham goal
keane sending off
grealish sending off
cuucaa sending off
newcastle pen
man u ruled out goal
wernt the correct decisions you deserve the standard of reffing we get in the uk, 7 of the easiest decisions reffs/var will ever have to give once you have the slo mo,s and rule book in front of you, now the rules are wrong need changing is a different argument

people start off on a loser with tneir 1st words ,which are usually
in my opinion,by my interpretation etc,your/my opinion counts for SFA we have the rules writtren down they just need applying ,not your opinion/version of them

I thought the red card was harsh and should have been a yellow as it didnt meet the threshold of violent conduct

Grealish was a kn0b and deserved 2 yellows

1tp - not sure what you would do with your spare time if we were not allowed to give opinions on here

You are correct that the game has rules that need to be applied, trouble is that there are too many inconsistencies in applying them. And that is because certain instances do in fact come down to opinion - for instance the Saliba "foul" on Barry that was not given in the recent Everton v Arsenal game, the on field ref and VAR official both didn't give it as "there wasn't enough contact" and yet many observers though that was wrong and indeed the KMI panel voted it should have been given.

There are many other examples like the one given, indeed Fulham got given a penalty for a very similar incident two days later, highlighting the inconsistency.

I don’t believe it was Grealish frustration, it was shocking indiscipline with no concern for his team-mates and their efforts.  Somebody should take him into a quiet rom and convince him of the errors of his ways.  Ego, ego, ego!

There is lots of inconsistency in refereeing and var decisions.

Hair pulling is a 3 match ban and red card

We should rejoice that no inconsistency occured

Many people feel 3 matches is harsh for hair pulling
compared to 3 games for kicking someone in the head.

Not many would disagree, but those are rules currently applied

Everton morale at rock bottom it would seem - three pens. missed and out of the cup to Sunderland.
Villa away next Saturday.  Nightmare for fans.

Today was not a surprise Honcho given they were down to the bare bones. Only 13 first team players were available. Grealish, Ndiaye, Dewsbury Hall, Gueye, Branthwaite and four others all out. When these absentees start to return we will improve again i am sure of that. 

The youngsters like Armstrong and Anzou impressed and give hope for the future. Barry and Beto's penalties were very poor, Sunderland showed how to take them.

Dibling has not impressed, i said at the time of signing that i though the transfer fee was over the top, he still has time on his side but looks too lightweight to me. Rohl is struggling to fit in as well. McNeil was very good a year or two back but seems lacking in confidence, he hasn't been the same player since an injury last season, maybe down to lack of game time this season as he is no longer first choice.

Villa Park has not been a happy hunting ground for the toffees in recent years and our patched up side will do well to get anything there.

---you-have-to-laugh--- • January 10, 2026 1:00 PM GMT
There is lots of inconsistency in refereeing and var decisions.

Hair pulling is a 3 match ban and red card

We should rejoice that no inconsistency occure

Is there a specific rule that hair pulling is a red card and a 3 game ban?

I wasnt aware of that i thought the rule was about violent conduct

I dont agree with Moyes about much but agree it was a slight tug which imho was a yellow at most

It's listed as an off the ball red in laws

And interpreted as on the ball red, as it cannot
be a challenge for ball.

All straight reds are 3 games in Epl except dogso.

It is possible a 3 game ban can be lowered on appeal
if its considered harsh.

But the 3 game ban for pulling cucarella's hair stood
so I think likely this one stands.

Would be good to see it down graded to 2 or 1 game
in future seasons as its clearly not same as kicking
in heed or stamping on somebody.

Over to pgmol

Keane deserves his dreadlock holiday

a pete crouch special
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUijrNTDD_I

Is Moise Kean coming back to the Toffees then?
Would have thought he would be grateful to get out of bottom-of-the-table Fiorentina.

Would certainly lead to some good word play Joking apart MK couldn't do any worse than our under performing strikers, he has averaged 1 goal every 2 games for Fiorentina in the last year and a half. Same ratio for the Italian national team as well. He didn't seem to really cope with the EPL when he was here before so that would be a worry.

Everton have confirmed in a statement that they have
seen their appeal for Michael Keane's red card
rejected by an FA panel, meaning the defender
will miss their next three fixtures

should have been doubled for suggesting it was accidental

Ridiculous appeal.

tobiasr's agenda clear for all to see again

All clubs appeal such cases Honcho, they rarely succeed. Same as all managers defend their players in public or on screen but you can be sure its a different matter in private.

no agenda dixie. no idea what youre on about. could have been any player playing for any team and i would be saying the same things. if you think it was accidental then its like you suggested before theres not much point talking further

I never said it was accidental, i did say that only the player himself knows exactly what was going through his mind. As i said, he had never been sent off for violent conduct before in his long career.
You intimated that Keane had probably been getting away with such things unpunished before which is obviously not true given we have had VAR for 6 years . Surely he would have been caught out if he was prone to such misdemeanours.
The club thought that excessive force had not been used in the incident, some agree some disagree. The fact that Hwang was not properly punished for his awful challenge on Armstrong maybe heightened a sense of injustice. They were never going to win of course but had nothing to lose. I'm more annoyed at Hwang not being sent off rather than Keane being dismissed.

weasel words that first sentence dixie. what was going through his mind was to pull the hair of his opponent for whatever reason. what else could have been going through his mind. agree completely about the hwang incident that looked a red card all day to me. also agree hair pulling shouldnt be violent conduct.

Kindly do not accuse me of "weasel words" thank you. My first sentence was nothing of the kind. I do not have the power to know what others are thinking.

How about the Bradley/Martinelli incident the other night ?  We don't know what the Arsenal man was thinking but to my mind it was as bad as the Keane incident just in a different way. The mitigation is that he didn't realise Bradley was injured and he's such a lovely guy normally. Clubs always back their own as i said earlier. However, no ban for him because the ref booked him and ridiculously that's the end of it. He then scores a hat trick today

Not an excessive force offence, it's statutory offence
tiniest tug on hair is declared violent conduct and he's off.

Maybe the buzz around it will see Epl address the law
and scale of punishment.

Then again they might not.


There used to be added bans for frivolous appeals but
haven't seen any of them applied for a long time so
absolutely worth while appealing

You make very good points Dixie imo.  And no punishment for frivolous appeals mean they’ll keep coming.  At least the appeals are dealt with in timely fashion.

I don't see why any rule should be changed - he decided to tug at his hair, should deal with the consequence of it. Don't do it.

Swindon Town captain Ollie Clarke was banned for seven matches after committing "highly violating and intentional foul play" on two opponents' "private body parts" during a game, according to a disciplinary report.

The 33-year-old midfielder was also fined ÂŁ2,750 last month after admitting two Football Association charges of acting in an improper manner or using indecent behaviour to an opponent.

The incidents occurred in the 57th minute and 94th minute of Swindon's Carabao Cup defeat by Cardiff City on 12 August.

In the written reasons for the ban, published on Monday, an FA independent Regulatory Commission said Clarke's actions were aggravated by the two incidents taking place 37 minutes apart during the same game.

A player who reported one of the incidents to the referee after the final whistle "was visibly upset" and "very emotional and struggled to speak", it said.

The report did not give specific details on the actions Clarke committed.

In a statement, external following the publication of the written reasons, Swindon said Clarke "maintained his innocence" and only admitted the charges on the basis that both "were unintentional".

"The club continues to support Ollie and will do so moving forward," Swindon added.

The 'never go back manager jinx, combined with the brand new stadium curse, is slowly kicking in

Thread title not to be confused with Fiorentina and former Everton striker Moise Kean

TheBetterBettor - strange how one's perception is often different to the actual reality.

Moyes has been back in charge for a year now, in that time Everton have taken 60 points from 40 league games (average 1.5 pts per match), a considerable uptick on recent years.

At Goodison between mid January and the end of the season ( the spell after Moyes took over) their record including cup games was Won 5 Drew 3 Lost 3. And six of those games were against teams who finished in the bottom seven.
Slightly better overall results than this season at the HD but not markedly so and Everton's injury problems have to be factored in. Goodison was not quite the fortress in recent years that it had been in the past.

There is no doubt however that the new stadium is nowhere near as intimidating for visiting teams as Goodison was.

Goodison wasn't intimidating past few years.

Like many teams Everton will have good runs and poor runs,
and it's vital manager has their confidence as you need
to be at it 100% in what is a tough and competitive
league. They seem to believe in moyes and he's a competent
manager so working well.

You expect manager to back up players, like the other
example I put up. Far worse than hair pulling.

Maybe Moyes was right?

Ballard with the dreadlock holiday now.

no. absolute crock of **** to suggest you can pull hair accidentally.