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City banned from champions league,,,

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Replies: 289
By:
tobermory
When: 14 Feb 20 21:44
The appeal will be done by July I expect.
By:
leif
When: 14 Feb 20 21:50
25 million pound fine should be a nice slush fund to fly in some high-class hookers for the UEFA officials
By:
themover
When: 14 Feb 20 21:54
The Michel Platini slush fund
By:
themover
When: 14 Feb 20 22:08
MARTIN SAMUEL: Financial Fair Play is just a UEFA protection racket... this is payback by the elite clubs who hate Manchester City

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8005751/
Financial-Fair-Play-UEFA-protection-racket-payback-clubs-hate-Manchester-City.html
By:
themover
When: 14 Feb 20 22:10
"Financial Fair Play was corrupted from birth by those at the top, warped into the most naked protectionism. It was supposed to be about debt, but ended up placing limitations on owner investment. A club loaded with debt, like Manchester United, is fully compliant; a club without debt, like City, is not."
By:
crystalhunt
When: 14 Feb 20 23:07
Goodbye City - it was good while it lasted. You will return to your normal level ie; Man U , Sheff U & Wolves. You've always been flat track bullies anyway. LaughLaugh
By:
themover
When: 14 Feb 20 23:21
Been a lot lower than that in the past!
By:
ffaith
When: 14 Feb 20 23:39
I dont know why liverpool fans are gloating this is not good news for them.   If man city are somehow hampered anything they win from now on in will be tarnished.  Besides great teams need great rivals to push them.  You have liverpool and man city after that the decline in quality is shocking.
By:
themover
When: 15 Feb 20 00:13
Sky Sports News
By:
themover
When: 15 Feb 20 00:14
BREAKING: UEFA re-open Paris Saint-Germain FFP case following Man City’s ban from UEFA competitions.
By:
themover
When: 15 Feb 20 00:17
Why don't they just ask the PSG President that resides on UEFA's Executive Committee? Laugh
By:
themover
When: 15 Feb 20 00:20
@SkySpoortsNews_ Laugh
By:
Coachbuster
When: 15 Feb 20 00:34
give the place to the Europa league runners up

fairer that way
By:
Coachbuster
When: 15 Feb 20 00:36
there will be an English team in that final - almost guaranteed
By:
n88uk
When: 15 Feb 20 03:02

Feb 14, 2020 -- 9:38PM, tobermory wrote:


When Milan were banned from Europa their place was taken by Roma so it seems 5th place should be OK for England.In the past though they had different rules for English clubs. Villa were not allowed in European Cup 1990/91 because UEFA said 'it is not for 2nd placed teams'. But then when Marseilles were banned in 1993/94 they just had the runners up go in.


UEFA have already confirmed 5th place will get in if City aren't eligible for next year's CL.

By:
bigH
When: 15 Feb 20 07:41
from the BBC website......

"La Liga President Javier Tebas praised Uefa for "finally taking decisive action".

"Enforcing the rules of financial fair play and punishing financial doping is essential for the future of football," he said.

"For years we have been calling for severe action against Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain, we finally have a good example of action and hope to see more. Better late than never."

What the Beeb fail to mention is that Javier Tebas is a REAL MADRID supporter.
By:
sparrow
When: 15 Feb 20 08:05
It's just not fair that these big clubs shouldn't be able to buy up all the best players in the world in order to win trophies. What are they supposed to do, develop their own players for goodness sake?
By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 08:32
This is how it will work..
Utd finish 5th City will be banned next season
Sheff Utd finish 5th the appeal process will be drawn out and CITY banned the following season.

What I don't understand is if as UEFA claim City were cooking the books.... why didn't City have a Abu Dhabi tourism board cash injection of £100m a season like PSG do with Qatar... which is deemed fair value by UEFA?

If UEFA have deemed the Etihad a related sponsor(which is allowed) fair value I don't see the issue if the money has come direct from Mansour pocket or the airways.
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 09:42
Throughout the startling “leaks” of Manchester City’s internal emails in the German magazine Der Spiegel, and the resulting investigation by Uefa which led ultimately to Friday’s guilty finding and two-season Champions League ban and €30m (£25m) fine, City’s response has been uniform: scorn, outrage, denial.

The emails, splashed by Spiegel with evident relish across a series of exposés, punched into City’s expertly and expensively created modern image in three broad areas relating to Uefa’s financial fair play rules, which were introduced in 2011 to deter clubs from overspending.

First, and most damaging, were emails and accounting documents which appeared to show that City’s owner, Sheikh Mansour, of the Abu Dhabi ruling family, was mostly funding the huge, £67.5m annual sponsorship of the club’s shirt, stadium and academy by his country’s airline, Etihad.

That created a perception that the Abu Dhabi hierarchy, in their drive to mega-spend on City attaining elite status while somehow complying with FFP rules, had deceived Uefa in their financial submissions.

This serious trouble for City sprang from a tiny number of emails, a fraction of the documentary dump provided to Spiegel by its source, Rui Pinto, a Portuguese national now charged in his home country with 147 criminal offences including computer hacking, all of which he denies.

FFP rules limit the amount of money owners can put in to bankroll losses, encouraging top-division European clubs not to overspend on players’ wages and transfer fees and risk falling into financial crisis, and to spend within their revenues.

Mansour started financing mega-losses on player signings and wages after his 2008 takeover and City had scrambled, particularly following the introduction of FFP in 2011, to turbo-boost their revenues with large sponsorships from Abu Dhabi companies.

One of the emails, from City’s then chief financial officer, Jorge Chumillas, headed “Cashflow”, stated that Mansour’s own company vehicle, the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), would be paying £57m as a “contribution to 13/14 sponsorship fee”, while only £8m was Etihad’s “direct contribution”.

Then Chumillas sent invoices for Etihad, internally to the City executives Ferran Soriano and Simon Pearce, stating that for 2015-16, the Etihad sponsorship was £67.5m, of which “£8m should be funded directly by Etihad and £59.5 [sic] by ADUG”.

Following the Spiegel coverage, Uefa’s club financial control body (CFCB) investigatory chamber (IC) finally announced last March that it was launching an investigation, and City responded by saying they would comfortably prove that the accusations were “entirely false”.

The IC, a panel of grandees chaired by Yves Leterme, a former Belgian prime minister, was clearly not convinced, however, after its inquiry which involved two days of hearings, and it charged the club in May.

City responded with scorn, accusing the IC of ignoring “a comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence”, said the decision was the result of “mistakes, misinterpretations and confusions fundamentally borne out of a basic lack of due process”, and in effect accused the IC of being biased, running “a wholly unsatisfactory, curtailed, and hostile process”.

City expressed huge outrage that the IC’s pending decision to charge was leaked two days early – which was indeed embarrassing to Uefa – although the truth is that throughout the process, very little detail has leaked.

The fact that the IC did charge City, though, made it self-evident that the hierarchy’s explanations, and whatever documentation they did provide, did not satisfy the IC that questions raised by the club’s own internal communications had been irrefutably answered.

The IC can reasonably have expected City to produce, for example, the internal replies to Chumillas’s stunning emails, which perhaps would show he had been corrected, or that in context it could be shown that it was simply, “irrefutably”, not the case that ADUG was funding the Etihad sponsorship.

Instead, the IC clearly decided that the allegations had not been refuted, and sent them for determination by Uefa’s CFCB adjudicatory chamber, which is chaired by José Narciso da Cunha Rodrigues, a former general prosecutor in Portugal and judge at the European Court of Justice, and includes a leading British barrister, Charles Flint QC.

These public responses after the charges were laid were consistent with the second element exposed by the emails: how hostile and confrontational City had been to Uefa, and to FFP itself, throughout the process of compliance – at times distastefully so. FFP applied to all top-flight clubs across Europe competing in the Champions and Europa Leagues, seeking to encourage long-term football development and dampen player wage inflation, with detailed new regulations and a sophisticated reporting system developed by Uefa with blue-chip accountants.

City’s chairman, Khaldoon al-Mubarak, was never a major supporter of FFP, seeing it as a restraint of Mansour’s freedom to rebuild City by pouring money in, but the emails showed the resistance went further.

It seemed as if the hierarchy had almost taken it personally, feeling that this whole FFP system was a protectionist move to stop Mansour’s extravagance challenging the established superclubs.

Perhaps there was something of that in the support for FFP given by Bayern Munich and the German clubs in particular, but they were trying to maintain financial sustainability in the Bundesliga where most clubs are still ultimately controlled by supporters.

They and many other clubs in Europe felt it was alien to the game’s traditions for Gulf sovereign investors to buy clubs and spend their way to success.

City perceived their plans for rapid accession to the Champions League elite were challenged by FFP, and persistently threatened a legal challenge.

The club’s inhouse lawyer Simon Cliff wrote in one of the published emails that Mubarak had told Gianni Infantino, then Uefa’s general secretary, that he would not accept a financial sanction for exceeding the permitted €45m loss in 2012 and 2013, and said: “He would rather spend 30 million on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue [Uefa] for the next 10 years.”

In 2014, the IC determined that City had a deficit of €180m over that two-year period, vastly in excess of the €45m permitted, and in May that year agreed a settlement which some at Uefa believed was too lenient.

A day before that, the former chair of the IC, Jean-Luc Dehaene, a distinguished former prime minister of Belgium and senior EU politician, died aged 73, survived by his wife of 49 years and their four children.

Spiegel quoted Cliff’s reaction to this news in an internal email, referring to the membership of the IC: “1 down, 6 to go.”

Since its exposure, no one from City has apologised for that email, apparently due to the stance that the emails were hacked, so the contents, however unfortunate, are not to be acknowledged

The third element revealed in the leaked material did not mostly form part of the IC’s investigation, having been dealt with as part of the 2014 settlement, but it revealed the extent to which City had engaged in some creative accounting to persuade Uefa it had complied with the new “break-even” rules.

Most of these restructurings had been spotted and disallowed by the IC and the consultants, PwC, it sent to peer into the detail.

Following the publication of the leaks, City refused to respond at all to Spiegel, the rest of the media and to Uefa, until the IC, having initially responded uncertainly, decided it had to investigate.

City denounced the use of the emails as “out-of-context materials purportedly hacked or stolen”, and alleged there was an “organised and clear attempt to damage the club’s reputation”.

Spiegel anonymised its source as “John” in the coverage, and quoted him denying that he acquired his vaults of 70m documents from football strongholds as a result of hacks, saying he had good contacts.

Within weeks he was identified as Pinto, now on remand in a Lisbon prison awaiting trial, charged with alleged hacking and other offences, although only against Portuguese clubs and institutions, not City or Uefa.

Pinto acknowledged to Spiegel in December that there was hacking software on his computer, and “some of my acts may be considered illegal”, but denied he had committed criminal offences, saying: “I don’t consider myself a hacker.”

But for people, or organisations such as City, who find they are victims of leaks, or hacks, there is a deeply uncomfortable contradiction to the consequences.

However justified their outrage, if the documents reveal possible wrongdoing, then regulators or governing bodies are duty bound to investigate.

Now, after a review of the evidence and a hearing last month, the AC has decided like the IC, that City’s hierarchy have been damned by their own internal material.

For all the fury and belligerence of their response, the club have not explained away the impression and apparent evidence that they deceived European football’s governing body with their financial submissions, even while they were spending huge money to star in its glittering competition.
By:
bigH
When: 15 Feb 20 09:52
Angoose - where is that article from? Thanks
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 10:01
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/14/leaked-emails-and-invoices-led-to-manchester-city-ban-from-champions-league-europe-uefa
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 10:02
A very good read which reveals it is the attitude of Man City that is being punished as much as the actions.
By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 10:12
Are we honestly to believe City are only capable of getting £8m a season for the naming rights of the ground, shirt  and campus??
he sold 11% of the club for £200m.....if anything £60 odd million is cheap
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 10:16
Q. Why couldn't Etihad have put in all of the cash?
A. Mansour doesn't have control of Etihad.

Q. Why couldn't Abu Dhabi United Group have sponsored City?
A. It's a holding company controlled by Mansour, its contributions would be deemed as owner contributions.
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 10:19

Feb 14, 2020 -- 8:18PM, maleuk01. wrote:


if found guilty could this mean losing points in the prem league next season, as the court case would drag past this season.50 points, having to sell a few playersand then relegation, sell mmore players and in the wilderness for years like leeds?though if the oil men just put their own cash in via buying more shares then surely no debts or potential debts are being accrued?


FFP is concerned with annual expenditure and annual recurring income generated from the regular recurring activities of the football club.
Share capital contributions are not regular recurring activities.

By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 10:20
u are allowed related sponsorship as long as it is deemed fair value......if UEFA have deemed £60m fair value....where is the problem?
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 10:21
Read the article ........
By:
A_T
When: 15 Feb 20 10:48
Man City have lived a charmed existence since the Arabs bought them - they'd struggle to be in the PL without them. Expect that luck to continue - ban reduced to one year or no ban at all.
By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 10:55
I have read the article....if I'm reading it right the issue seems to be Mansour is pumping £59m a season of his own money in with Etihad £8m.
If that is the case why the hell are City still getting sponsored by Etihad? they would comfortable get near the £60m mark with an unrelated sponsor.
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 10:56
They lied to EUFA and are now upset that they have been caught lying.
Can you see the problem here?
By:
maleuk01.
When: 15 Feb 20 11:02
as long as an owner invests his own money and doesnt jeopordise the financial stabiity of the club then i dont really see the problem.

If you buy a player for £200m and £500k per week wage for 5 years and the club obv cannot afford it but the owner pay's the fee and sets aside the £130m wages then the club is still financially sound.

People buy racehorses all the time who would never pay their own way in prize money.

I guess its a way the bigger clubs protect their own position at top of the food chain, ie man utd, real madrid etc.

The issue is where people loan the club the money, or build up debt for the club, or build up a financial situation where they have no way of sustaining that on the income the club can generate (such as Leeds).
By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 11:06
That is hearsay from ILLEGALLY hacked Emails........if the money in City's accounts comes direct from Etihad airways I don't see how UEFA have a leg to stand on.
Etihad airways have already claimed they are solely responsible for the sponsorship of Man City
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 11:07
But what happens when the owner either runs out of cash (see Gretna) or simply gets feds up ?
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 11:09

Feb 15, 2020 -- 11:06AM, mcfc1981 wrote:


That is hearsay from ILLEGALLY hacked Emails........if the money in City's accounts comes direct from Etihad airways I don't see how UEFA have a leg to stand on.Etihad airways have already claimed they are solely responsible for the sponsorship of Man City


Have you seen all of the evidence?
I suspect not.

UEFA, and their lawyers have.

That the evidence was obtained by a hacker doesn't change the facts.
City have been given ample opportunity to prove that Etihad were the sole source of funding.

They have clearly been unable to do so.

By:
maleuk01.
When: 15 Feb 20 11:11
thats why the owner should put the cash up upfront, both for the transfer and the wages which goes above their fpplimit.

If they cannot then that would be breaking the rules.
By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 11:13
You are misunderstanding the concept of FFP, it sets out to avoid a battle of the billionaires.
By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 11:14
Last time City were open UEFA moved the goalpost and fined City for failing FFP.
This time City are keeping their cards close to their chest and said see you in court
By:
mcfc1981
When: 15 Feb 20 11:17

Feb 15, 2020 -- 11:13AM, Angoose wrote:


You are misunderstanding the concept of FFP, it sets out to avoid a battle of the billionaires.


What a load of rubbish ...it is designed to keep the same teams at the top.

If we really want to make things fair lets go back to splitting gate receipts and sharing all TV money equally....have a max wage cap for all teams, maybe a max spend each season...…………….. didn't think so

By:
Angoose
When: 15 Feb 20 11:25
Do you think that your blue moon tinted spectacles are impacting your objective assessment of this issue Confused
By:
themover
When: 15 Feb 20 11:25

Feb 15, 2020 -- 11:13AM, Angoose wrote:


You are misunderstanding the concept of FFP, it sets out to avoid a battle of the billionaires.


Laugh

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