Clear and obvious is dead.
It is now a check on every goal reffed in 2 different ways. Real-time pitch decision v Super Slow mo studio decision.

It will get to the point where goals aren't celebrated until 3 mins later when all checks are done.

i actually think pitch refs often bottle these decisions now knowing VAR will look

whether its clear and obvious is another debate in itself!

Maybe 3 VAR refs in the box with a yes or no button.
Not allowed to communicate just press the button.
Anything less than 3 in agreement decision stands.

Certainly a good time to be a ref

Yes it means clear and obvious to a qualified ref in the VAR room looking at 5 different angles and multiple replays, not clear and obvious live. Basically means the video clearly shows there was an error

VAR is clearly and obviously, as predicted by everyone who isn't on the football gravy train, a complete disaster. I love listening to all the all-pro's and the old refs and the presenters trying to defend it and make out it's a WIP and everything will be great when all the problems are ironed out, no it won't, this is just the start we haven't even got close to peak VAR madness. Just wait until every game every week is subject to VAR. They keep telling is it's going to speed up but all the evidence is that it's taking longer and longer.

VAR is already much worse than it was 8 months ago in the World Cup.

Lurka, I've checked with Champions League assistants on that offside call in the Real game. That's a very important distinction. Unfortunately part of the problem with VAR is that the VAR official is a referee and to be quite frank referees do not understand the intricacies of the offside laws. They don't have any need to usually. It's a big mistake by UEFA and FIFA to handle it this way. They have an assistant in the studio too but his responsibilities are different and he is not allowed to make any judgement.
With regard to the Otamendi 'handball' the biggest issue is 'clear and obvious'. Many people think Otamendi was trying to get his hand out of the way and didn't react in time, some other people seem to think he had time and chose not to. I don't believe that myself but the issue is that whatever your opinion it cannot be considered a clear and obvious error. If a penalty was given by the ref i can see the argument to uphold it, but they should not be reversing these marginal calls.
In the Athletico v Juve game it's just a scandalous decision. One of the worst refereeing decisions i've ever seen. For this to be as a result of VAR is a scandal.

Finally, as an aside one of the things UEFA and FIFA are getting wrong is putting the final decision back to the ref on these things. The Juve players for example hounded that referee and then when he was told have a look at the monitor he is automatically under even more pressure. It encourages players to hound referees and put pressure on them. If the final decision was made by the VAR there would be less hounding of referees and less pressure on the decision. Finally, it should be a VAR assistant in charge of offside decisions and someone in the box should also be in charge of timekeeping as currently refs just want to get off the pitch asap so often don't play enough added time. I'm not a fan of VAR in general but at least they should be getting the basics right.

Another point with VAR is it wouldn't have fixed either complaint in the Spurs game. Where 2 ref errors lead to goals.

The fiorentina / inter Milan game this evening was a joke because of var

Asparagus, it is clear to me that Courtois ability to attempt to play the ball (ie ability to challenge for the ball) is impeded by a player standing offside between him and the ball at the time the ball is headed. Just his ability to attempt to play it is enough for offside, not his ability to actually play it. I don't think it's possible for a Champions League ref to explain to me why that is not the case. It may be a matter of opinion/fact as to whether his ability to attempt to play it is impeded and some refs might think not but I disagree with that opinion. There are refs who say it was the right call as well. There are refs who have said Courtois wouldn't have got a touch on the ball which is wrong as offside is judged at the time the picture is frozen and what happens afterwards is irrelevant. Just agree to disagree.

Re clear and obvious, I think this means clear and obvious from the video review having watched it multiple times. Some refs like Halsey are strict on the handball being deliberate but others aren't so much and seem to go with the view that if your arm is up/out and the ball is blocked it's a pen. I don't think Otamendi can complain, those pens are given far more often than not imo, especially since VAR came in.

Yesterday's incident with Hazard clean through in the last minute was the opposite of Kane's in the semi final when the linesman kept his flag down. Also thought Aguero's offside was a dodgy angle to use and wasn't clear and obvious from that angle. And it is not a tv director choosing when to pause the image. It is the VAR refs.

Just shaking my head at a new low in VAR, Napoli v Juve, ball smashed at Sandro's arm from a yard away, Sandro not looking at the ball and has no idea where the ball is as the ball has come over from a cross.

Pen missed, justice done but that's the worst I've seen yet. The referee simply could not wait to give the pen, he only looked at it for 5 seconds.

Does VAR mnake a whole lot of difference to me from a trading POV? I don't think so, but it makes the games a lottery and as I always suspected easlier to 'fix' for the powers that be.

Roache, that interpretation already exists in the Premier league but you are right that it's becoming a law next season rather than just a Premier League interpretation of deliberate/unnatural position.
Lurka, whilst i'm happy to agree to disagree on that Ajax 'goal' I think it's very important to ignore what a ref thinks. As i said before refs really do not have an understanding of the intricacies of the offside laws and i would trust my sources to my right totally. I actually still believe your interpretation is wrong about the offside in that you don't judge it as the picture is being frozen. You judge it on what happened. An assistant wouldn't put his flag up at the moment the header is made, he would wait until he is happy on whether the player was active. As the ball was headed high over their heads he wasn't active. Anyway, i know you won't agree but that is 100% my understanding from totally reliable sources.
I do agree with you on some of these very tight offside calls. The technology just isn't good enough.
And with regard to Otamendi I would say you are right that the majority of this type decision is given abroad but I would say much less so here. Hopefully the law change which Roache mentions will help with consistency from next season though of course this one is still one which will be argued over. No question that his arm is within a natural silhouette position but some will still argue that he chose to leave his arm there and had time to take it away. For me, that's watching it with slo mo replays and a harsh interpretation but appreciate many will disagree.

Did you see the one in the Munchengladbach - Bayern game this weekend? Bayern attacker clearly shoves his marker to the ground at a corner and gets a free header. Goes to VAR - goal stands. 0-1 after 90 seconds. Truly shocking decision from referee and then from VAR. If it had been the other way around it would have been a stone cold penalty.

How long was that delay on VAR. Good luck with these market re-settlements and not annoying people.

They missed Mbappe’s stamp on Smalling

Straight red.

Disgusting. Could’ve broken his leg.

VAR 2 Football 0

Although the 2nd was correct

Hans i have only seen the so called handball once on the news, it didnt look deliberate to me ??

  A neutral ( southampton ) supporter btw.

Same here Glasgow,good luck to utd but if VAR is going to give decisions like that the game is fecked.

Refs have never needed to know the offside laws until recently? Absolute nonsense. They need training because the laws and the interpretation of them have changed from season to season. If you are trying to convince me that you know better than a CL referee and so do your anonymous sources with zero evidence of how that is then save it and just agree to disagree, I'll trust the interpretation of CL refs and VAR officials together with UEFA's statement explaining why the Ajax decision was correct, which I agree with reading the laws of the game although I'd prefer to have seen it given. I could make up my own anonymous sources to back up my view but I don't need to. CL officials and the laws of the game are enough for me.

And the Porto penalty was a clear penalty tonight. You pull a guy's shirt in the box like that and you are going to get a pen after a VAR review over 90% of the time. It was a stupid thing to do and he was asking for a pen to be given. The Man U one was very harsh and easier not to give but as I said after the Otamendi decision the other week, they are given a lot more often now with VAR and we saw questionable handball reviews like that numerous times during the World Cup. It's not going to change. People like Neymar are giving out about the VAR officials saying they don't know the game but it was the ref that made the call in both cases.