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***** ARSENAL CHIT CHAT *****
***** ARSENAL CHIT CHAT *****
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Your argument doesn't stack up, Darren. I am not defending him, I agree that he's not an ideal type of owner and that he should have got rid of Gazidis and Wenger a lot sooner. I am disagreeing with you when you say he is primarily responsible for the mess we are in now when it was Wenger and Gazidis who engineered the whole lot of it. Why do you refuse to attach most of the blame to them? It was mismanagement on a grand scale and Kroenke does not manage any aspect of the club. That is the simple point I'm making. I also disagree that he is only in it for the money because the facts don't stack up there either.
'He spent money to make money which top 4 gave him' - he'd have made a lot more money with a much smaller wage bill and not getting CL football and he could still have got CL football with a smaller wage bill. He spent a lot more money than the CL gave him every year on the wage bill and transfers over teams in 5th and 6th. I note you didn't highlight the bit where he talks about signing the best players. Ticket prices were the highest once we moved to the new stadium and he wasn't even on the board then. His area of expertise is on the business side and every club looks to increase their branding. It is a vital part of a modern football club. He doesn't talk about the football side because he doesn't have a clue about it. “If you want to win championships then you would never get involved...' He is talking about an era of unfettered spending by the likes of City, Chelsea and United before FFP was introduced. He is not saying he doesn't want to win, he is saying he doesn't want to win at all costs by spending sums which the club can't afford to spend like they did and trying to compete with them on spending. He has spent far in excess of what is necessary to win titles every year since he took control. The amounts being spent on the team are massive. The champions from 2013 to 2017 were relatively poor sides and their records in Europe back that up. It makes no sense that a guy you say is only in it for the money would spend £250m+ a year on wages when he could get the same results for £150m a year or less. He'd have reduced the wage bill a long time ago if that were the case and made 3 times the profit. He'd have sucked a lot more than £3m out of the club too, like the Glazers have. He is prepared to channel the majority of the club's resources into the team and those resources are more than enough to challenge for titles and the CL. Within that framework, why wouldn't he want to get value for money and win the odd title here and there? You can't say he's only in it for the money and at the same time say he's unconcerned with getting awful value for the huge sums of money he is spending. That just doesn't stack up. Another thing you are forgetting is that despite taking control in 2011, Kroenke was still in a tactical ownership battle with Usmanov until last year and he played the long game and got what he wanted in the end by frustrating Usmanov into selling his shares. Leaving Wenger in place and not making wholesale changes may well have been part of his strategy to frustrate Usmanov and get him to sell to him and not overly inflate the price he would eventually have to pay for his shares. Nobody would have paid Usmanov as much as Kroenke would for a minority shareholding giving no control and Kroenke would have known this. |
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Wenger Out indeed
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Haven't been reading previous posts!!!!
Watched parts of the last game..torreira! Bought from Sammpdoria?? Yes, a Uruguay international but he's not amazing, or poor just middling. Xhaka has never been worth his pricetag..where did he come from Basle and some average German team.. Give us a decent f...ING holding midfielder at least. Vieira .....fabregas held the midfield together for years. And arse buy arteta a half a player..it's a wonder how AW kept us so high in the table in some respects. The attacking players need a platform to play..Gilberto Silva (one of my favourites..did the dirty work with elegance.. Give us a f...ING decent holding midfielder and we'll get on top of teams quickly I hear calls to fix the defence..a good holding midfielder covers the f...ING defence ffs |
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It's not the amount of money he's spent on the club in terms of wages, salaries, transfers so much as already explained several times (money that the club could afford to spend), it's simply the refusal to not have let go Wenger and Gazidis years beforehand like any other top club in Europe would of done, Kroenke should have been more active in what was going on at the club and become aware of the fact that the money being spent was poor value over and over, he himself would not have much clue personally but that's no excuse for not hiring other people around him who do and would easily have told him how bad a job Gazidis was doing. You're second guessing Kroeneke's intentions when it came to leaving Wenger in a job, there were better managers out there at the time and he did not act because Wenger was acheiving top 4, I understand the money side of it, I've read a good article on arsenaltrust.org that breaks it down to the finest of detail, but none of that is relevant one iota in regards to personal in charge of the team and transfers, they were the face of the problem, Kroenke the source, poor ownership, poor leadership.
If he didn't think Arsenal could compete with other teams when he took over the club he should not have taken over at all, other clubs may have more money but as Leicester proved good recruitment can go along way, they found players like Kante and Mahrez and spent peanuts on them. I agree with tober however, owners not going anyway so really it's a waste of a discussion. |
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marcellino?
think id rather have emery back ! |
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Next manager market incredibly open, which makes you think they are incredibly undecided. No surprise there.
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The Unai leaks to the Athletic...
He wanted Slabhead, Thomas Partey and Zaha Slabhead - club put in a low bid as they preferred the world class potential of Saliba. Partey - Brutal Atletico defensive midfielder who was desperate to move but the club wanted a fancy box to box player instead. Zaha - club preferred Pepe because of his age and potential - Got to say...whoever is making these decisions needs kick up the *** imo |
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in time i think people will see that as much as he lost the plot towards the end, emery was dealt an impossible hand to play with
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ELG what article in the Athletic are you referring to? Ornstein on Monday? Because the Ornstein on Monday article says that those players were identified by Emery whe we were still in contention for a CL place. We didn't get that and that meant we didn't have nearly as much to spend as a result and wouldn't be as attractive to top players.
Maguire - the article doesn't say we put in a bid or preferred Saliba. It says that not getting CL meant we didn't stand a chance and it was a straight fight between United and City Partey - the article doesn't say we wanted a box to box midfielder instead. It says that he had a €50m release clause and we couldn't afford that as we had committed most of the budget to a winger. Zaha - we bid something like £50m which was way too low for Palace. Then we offered a slightly higher bid dependent on future performance and Reiss Nelson thrown in as well (reportedly). We bid a lot more for Pepe but it was reported at the time this was because Lille were prepared to accept payment over a longer timeframe than Palace and Palace wanted most of the money up front. I don't think Maguire and Zaha we possible at any stage during the window and that's mainly down to Wenger and the Ozil deal. I suspect the deals we did last summer involved more delayed payments than normal and this is consistent with us not being able to bid more for Zaha compared to Pepe and consistent with the much lower figure reportedly available to spend at the start of the window and probably why the Saliba deal was done a year early while keeping his wages off the bill and making most of the payments next year onwards. In that sense it was somewhat of a gamble as it will probably affect how much we have to spend next summer too. |
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Anyone else on here think we’re in a relegation battle. I’m on small at 250/1. I thought we’d get 4 points in December, but that included beating Brighton!
We have the equal worst current form in the league and a Board that is dithering and hoping that results pick up under Freddie. Our away form is well documented and our next three home games are the Manchester clubs and Chelsea. There doesn’t seem to be respite anywhere. Most alarming stats are that we hardly ever have more shots than our opponents. Plus morale looks at an all time low. Aubameyang and Torreira looking to get out and so many of them going through the motions.... |
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either way Emery could not get in the players he really wanted and had to make do with others hence benching of players recently brought in, next manager will have same problem if the board are pulling the strings on transfers as suspected.
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Who on earth has backed us in to 1.98? I thought 2.12 was short last night?
I highly doubt it's the board who are selecting the players. The manager is identifying positions he wants new players in and the board are getting them having to work within a highly restrictive financial framework. That's the situation the club and manager have been left in. You can't expect to go after players identified based on CL money and status when you fail to get that. It's the same for any manager - if the money isn't there you have to go with Plan B. Just because they didn't get Maguire etc doesn't mean Emery had nothing to do with the players they got in. Pepe, Saliba and Luiz were all more familiar to him than anyone else. |
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Desperate times and yes could be in a relegation battle and not sure how Arsenal would cope with the scenario, they don't have much experience. Still latest loss of 24 million might make the board wake up and smell the coffee.
Plenty of money to be made by laying Arsenal at the moment. 2.0 away at Wham a gift. |
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I'm sorry but a Sunday League manager would recognise that a centre half was a top top priority and that the money for Pepe would have been clearly better spent there, so it seems to me that it was the board who really wanted Pepe as to them that was an exciting signing to get the fans going, showed them they meant business, get them off of their backs, treating them as if they don't know any better when in reality all fans knew we needed a centre back and that included an experienced manager like Emery.
Emery did not want David Luiz at PSG that's why he was sold in Emery's first transfer window over there in France, why he would then want an even older David Luiz is beyond me, plenty of central defenders out there would could have cost far less than 70 mil such as even the Brighton pair of Dunk or Duffy, in the end because injuries to Holding and how terrible Mustafi was he had to play him. And it also comes back to Emery not playing Pepe all the time and subbing him off when he did start matches, along with Torreira who I think started less than half the games in the league during Emery's time. I understand the money side and being restricted with getting every target, but not getting players in the necessary position is another thing, this is why I say that Emery was not the biggest problem at all, I don't believe he wanted the players he got. |
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Emery was on a hiding to nothing, until the defence is sorted out any new manager is. I still have hopes for Pepe, but the forth most expensive player in Premier League history needs to start delivering soon.
Are any decent academy waiting in the wings? The Wham match result tonight will set the tone for the season as they are not playing well at all at the moment. |
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What's happened to JJ has gone over to the dark side?
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Yes a Sunday league manager would, but he didn't look to sign one last year and identified Zaha as his main target this summer which would have meant he had no money to sign a CH this summer either. Maguire was never affordable anyway but once he failed to get CL he didn't identify a cheaper alternative as his priority. This was at a stage where Holding still wasn't fit and he already knew that Mustafi was a complete mug.
He signed Luiz because Koscielny left 6 days before the start of the season for £5m and his hands were tied with most of the money spent. He got Luiz in 2 days after that. That's when he went for a centre half, when nobody would sell any decent one and all the money was gone. One of the reasons Koscielny left was because Emery overplayed him after his achilles injury and far too often towards the end of the season, even playing him in FA cup ties when half the first team were rested. Koscielny has stated this himself. Torreira had a good season last year and so did Emery. He then decided to play him as a No. 10 this season for some baffling reason and no surprise the defence is more exposed. The attack was significantly worse this year too. That is not primarily down to personnel, it is down to Emery being a mug and making silly changes often multiple times a game. It is the manager's responsibility to sort out the defence. Emery didn't do it initially and didn't prioritise it last summer despite Holding and Kos not being available. Any manager who doesn't sort out the defence as a priority is on a hiding to nothing. |
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Any manager or the board, I'm sure the manager wanted decent defenders, he didn't want Luiz, he sold him at PSG as soon as he came in. Luiz was a panic buy by the board.
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Kosicelny was very injury prone and getting older, he would have needed replacing himself even if he wanted to stay.
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Embarrassing, wretched first hour. The fact that we have got some half decent forward players got us out of a hole there. Still don’t think it’s more than a sticking plaster at this stage. We’ll see....
Pepe’s goal aside, the highlight was the stadium announcer saying that David Luiz is coming on, then apologising as it is actually Matteo Guendouzi. Bet that won’t happen again. |
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Abysmal for the first hour, thought we looked like the worst team in the league. Martinelli is a breath of fresh air in terms of workrate and got into scoring positions well. Pepe showed there is a class player in there, goes down too easily and just gives up when he loses the ball, needs to work a lot harder but you can say that about most of them. Torreira was very good second half, played the ball forward very smartly but he is still playing Xhaka in front of the defence most of the time. Xhaka wasn't great and awful for the first goal, shouldn't be allowed in our box. Ozil was awful, the more he gets paid the less effort he puts in it seems.
But let's face it West Ham were very poor, showed a lack of urgency and stood off our players just like we did against Norwich. City at home next in the league and we are still playing out from the back  . They are leaking goals though so you never know. |
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Great to see the players faces after the win. They looked like a huge weight had been taken off their shoulders. Let's hope they have that bit more confidence now.
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I mean absolute credit to Martinelli but how wrong is this :
That hard work, in particular, was the difference. No Arsenal player regained possession of the ball more times than Martinelli. No Arsenal player made more tackles. No Arsenal player made more blocks. In particular, it was the intensity of his sprinting that set him apart. |
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A terrible performance last night, except for a very good 15 minutes when we scored the goals. Positives were obviously Pepe's performance - for the first time looked a decent player, and the super promising Martinelli played well too. Looks like a top ten finish is probably beyond us this year, we need drastic surgery to the team - as I've always thought, too many players just aren't good enough although a decent manager has got something to work with.
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top 10 ! ?
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Yep top ten. Haven't you watched the last ten games or so? Won't get top ten playing to our current form, we would have to improve a lot (which wouldn't be difficult).
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I ahven't looked at the odds for that but if you are so certain there must be a fotune to make for yourself available.
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*haven't/fortune
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Back/lay is 1.16/1.22 for Top 10.
Like Pixie, I think there has to be dramatic improvement otherwise we’ll be in the lower reaches of the table. Relegation? Probably not, but so many things wrong at the club at the moment.... |
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Ancelotti sacked tonight after taking Napoli through. Everton and Arsenal will be interested. Everton have already spoken to Emery apparently.
I'd be happy with Ancelotti. I don't think we're in the market for anyone higher profile and he'd command respect and instil some discipline and defensive organisation. From the rumours I've read so far Edu seems to be proposing former players and Raul is proposing Spanish managers. Arteta would be the stand out candidate then and he impressed them last time. Apparently they are interested in Roberto Martinez too Please not another mug who totally ignores defensive organisation. |
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Enpassant, where do you think our final position will be, assuming we continue to play the way we are? We are joint eighth at the moment, I would say the top seven are all better than us so it's a coin flip if we can finish above the likes of Sheffield United, Palace, Newcastle or even Everton. We probably will just about, but it's a shame there is no liquidity for a lay in the top ten market!
Martinez, would be an absolute disaster, Lurka. Surely that can't happen. |
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Martinez would be yet another manager selecting poor defenders primarily for their ability on the ball and not organising the back line as a unit. Like Emery, like Wenger. Please no. Exactly what we don't need.
Ancelotti is 60 and tends not to last more than 2 years anywhere, not necessarily a bad thing at his age. But apparently his training methods aren't very modern and he doesn't do much coaching which would be a concern. But I'd still be happy with him, I think he would stabilise and improve us but he would only be a short-term appointment, maybe 18 months. Arteta is a risk but you'd have to assume he'd play a high pressing game, seeing as he learned under Pep. That might actually suit our squad in the short-term as it keeps the opposition away from your defence as a priority, rather than trying to organise the defence. I think the board would lean towards a younger manager with modern methods, ideally, but they may go for someone this season and I don't think Arteta and Martinez will be available then. The West Ham game wasn't really much of an an improvement, it just showed what we can produce up front when a team defends like we do. We were awful for an hour and they were worse than us, which is an achievement. Martinelli showed up a lot of our players in terms of effort, perhaps they'll be embarrassed into trying harder now, they should be. Most teams will give us no time on the ball and press us when playing it out from the back. |
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can't believe Arteta is even a consideration, now is not the time for a novice, he has zero managerial experience with no real idea of what his style would be, a terrible idea at this point in time, people tend to think Number 2's working under great number 1's are a great idea for some reason but how many ever really become great let alone match the man they work under, Freddie has done his best to steady the ship.
Apparently Ancelotti's training regime at Bayern was very low intensity and players had secret training sessions away from him, that's the last thing these Arsenal players need is to be taking it easy in training, maybe he has had his time but if Allegri isn't interested he would seem the best bet. Martinez doesn't fill me with confidence, teams leak way too many goals, Simeone is my idea choice but for financial reasons probably can't be done unless Ozil can be farmed out to China in January or the summer. If Freddie remains in Charge for the next few games and we started to slide backwards, I genuinely think it's time to call in Sam Allardyce to help save us from relegation. |
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just had a look at the next arsenal manager market
few decent bets on ancelotti down to 2.22 last night (and now drifting again) arteta has traded 1.95 freddie 2.5 poch 3.05 marcellino 4 allegri 2.2 nuno 3.05 ? is this some kind of money laundering scheme as i cant see why anyone would pile in on someone unless they knew something? from the overall betting it seems the arsenal board are as clueless as the rest of us |
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We need a hyperactive manager who jumps up and down and shouts for 90 minutes, not someone who quietly observes and gently nods or shakes their head. We have good players who have become far too comfortable. They need geeing up. Someone to motivate them.
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All of those next manager markets are a goldmine, those prices are matched based purely on the latest name bandied about in the media. If there was any inside knowledge or anything concrete someone would be matched below 1.2. It is well known at this stage that Arsenal have a longlist, which will be whittled down to a 3 name shortlist and presented to Kroenke with recommedations after interviewing all candidates. It was the same last time. But I suppose if they really wanted Ancelotti and felt Everton were in for him too that might change.
I don't think Ancelotti fits the profile of manager they are looking for and he tends to work with sides full of top players who don't need many additions or much coaching and yes his training sessions are supposed to be very unenergetic and he may not even want to work with our players. I suspect the guys who will fit the profile will mainly be guys who pay no attention to what the team does when it doesn't have possession, someone who plays like Wenger. I doubt Arteta would be like that having trained under Pep and Ten Hag turned out alright and he was Pep's understudy at Bayern. We are either going to get someone inexperienced or someone from a lower level, someone who doesn't cost much. |
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Arteta has no experience of management, it would be suicidal given Arsenal's recent form and current position to start hiring a guy with no track record in management, it would just be a hopeful punt. In no other industry would you hire a somebody in a position of power that effectively in control of millions given the consequences of not getting top 4/getting relegated, this is a time for experience, somebody with a good record for defensive organisation. Hen Taag wasn't a novice with a blank managerial CV when he landed his first big job at Ajac, had a few years inc Bayern b team.
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especially considering Guardiola is not exactly famed for concentrating on the defence, he is used to possession based footballers, we don't have them, and given our poor defence, it's surely a no no for a Pep student.
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