CCM you can't see the left hand contact in that clip so it's irrelevant imo

* there ffs.

You're missing the point, not for the first time 1tp.

if lovren doesnt push him he has already lost chance to score !!!

gambled all on winning pelanty, and won.

The left hand is 100% relevant too. That's why the ref gave the pen FFS, a push with the left hand

Lurka - I think tancredi's clip shows that at the time DCL "takes off" then Lovren's hand isn't on him. The point the contact is made is when he lands, almost on Lovren's toes.


ie DCL clearly jumps into Lovren's path (with no help from the defender), as he is then directly in front of him Lovren's hand goes up and DCL falls over as if shoved.

And there's no guarantee we'd have been 2 or 3 up with the strongest team.

We also don't know if that wasn't the strongest team, and if the lads who missed out were 100%. Didn't Phil miss training on friday?

And lastly, it's not an excuse. This is football. Sometimes (fairly often in fact) the best team doesn't win. That doesn't mean it's anyone's fault - though god knows if anyone is to blame we'll find them - sometimes you just don't get the rub of the green.

See the thing is, we know our strongest team if everyone's fit. I'd have Clyne and Lallana in our strongest team, but not right now obviously. All those getting their aprons in a twist about Phil and Bobby missing out have presumably seen them in training (or not in Phil's case) the last few days and know that they were at the top of their game. Presumably also when our form fell away last January none of them mentioned the players looking tired and that they should have been rested earlier.


I'd agree about Lovren though. Should have been able to win the header. I think he thought about it and hesitated which gave DCL half a yard on him.


As for good enough on the day, we were easily good enough. We had an absolute sitter on the half time whistle and several other chances such as Salah's header. On the flip side, Everton didn't threaten us once until the pen. We may not have done enough to get a cricket score, but we certainly did enough to win.

CCM

This is what I posted on the Everton thread earlier today........

As for the penalty - it was right in front of me and my angle was better than any TV camera - and I'd be livid if it had been against us. DCL's first movement was away from Lovren and when he stepped back in, Lovren put his hand up to stop DCL coming in to him, which was exactly what DCL was waiting for. Having said that, we've had enough wrong decisions against us there over the years that it felt like a dose of Karma.

From Palmieri's clip it looks to me (and the ref i assume) that DCL is moving away from Lovren towards the ball, then moves back towards Lovren to shield the ball and use his body, then at the same time 1) Lovren's left hand or forearm pushes him while DCL's feet are off the ground and 2) he falls towards the ball once his feet land. It looks as if he's been excessively rough/clumsy and pushed him over. That's all the ref had to go on and I don't think you can complain about the decision. I thought 'what an idiot' when I saw it live. He doesn't fall forward before the 'push', he is 'pushed' in mid-air and falls when his feet land, ie after.

If there was no left hand/arm shove, and I think there was, then it is a very impressive dive because he's managed to time it perfectly with the movement of Lovren's left hand, without being able to see the left hand moving towards him. Much better than a dive where you see the challenge in front of you and fall over it. I'd give it 9.9 in such case. But I don't think it was a complete dive, I think he felt the contact from the left hand on his back and fell over, as most managers would encourage a striker to do.

I disagree that Lovren's hand movement was natural too. A lot of savvy centre halves would allow him to bounce off his chest with arms out wide to show the ref he wasn't fouling. You don't put your hands on him in the box when there's no need and when he's going nowhere. I don't think Lovren's hand movement was natural or smart at all.

Miss wales has it spot-on IMO, I think it is a reactionary thing from Lovern, (putting his hands up).

regards pundits, agree, beyond belief that they can say its a pen after several replays  - I mentioned in my post previous about referees -  its harder than ever for these guys, and I believe it is a different job now - I would assume that these professional refs will be reviewing stuff like this constantly - they have to have a review and a  dialogue and understand what is going on in the game, players are constantly trying to "engineer" (as POP says) decisions and making decisions about this needs to have context - it can't be just about what you see anymore - you have to look at context - handballs are a classic situation where a ref has to take into account proximity, body position (how can you give a handball pen when the hands are tucked into the body and someone shoots directly at the player?).

In some ways the case for video replays can be set back with these incidents - because we still see massive disparity in views despite endless replays and angles.

Similar thing happened in espanyol/girona last night but it was not given

Exactly RP, I mentioned the decision (not given) in the Manchester derby, when basically a player was thrown to the ground. Some pundits can actually disagree with each other, but most are afraid to put their head above the parapet....Shearer just comes across as someone who is not particularly intelligent and has that trait of never being able to change his mind, allowing it to cloud his judgement on everything related that follows. To some extent, some folks are perhaps doing that with Lovern here...

Because flopp smiles a lot and his jokey jokey with the press it hides how deranged the German cheerleader really is

Wouldn't swap him for your destructive argumentative bore, that's for bloody sure....
More deflection tactics swallowed by press and you mugs again.
Played off the ****g park.

it would be great to get mourinho, klopp, pep and a few others in the studio together to
be pundits for world cup

wont happen of course but getting their undiased opinions about a neutral game would
be worth watching , probably as much as the game .

shearer, savage, wrighty and co can waffle on whilst i make a cup of tea in kitchen

the cricket comms work for multiple channels and mixed media, they even report what has been
said on overseas channels, it seems to work well enough.

football punditry is often the worst part of uk coverage with any ex player invited in

only one opinion counts

what does sue Johnson think about it,