Are bookmakers fair game to be cheated?

did you ever let a losing punter have their money back because they said their bet was a palpable error?

YEEEEAH BUDDY

It depends.

Clearly, one would need to seek Plato's advice on the absolute morality of it, but my own take on it is this:

If it were you, who I presume were an independent operator, and would probably have been known personally to most of your punters, then no it is not all right.

Sadly though, the High Street chains have corrupted the old-fashioned idea of bookmaking to such a degree, then they must be fair game. I do not see how any organization which foists FOBTs on the public in the full knowledge that they destroy families and lead to hopeless addiction, and which weeds out with extreme prejudice anyone who looks like they may have half an idea about how to get an edge, which pays its staff the mimimum wage and sacks them on a whim, can be granted the full protection of the punters' code of honour.

The thread to which you refer is obviously the one about the 1000/1 winner, do you really think that the incompetence displayed by the bookmaker in question - if indeed the whole thing is not an apocryphal story - is deserving of your moral indignation?

My question is: how were they ill-gotten goods exactly? At no point have I been told what their supposed correct odds should have been. As far as I'm concerned, I accepted the odds being offered and duly withdrew my winnings which I'm perfectly entitled to do.

If someone wanted £1000 on a 1/10 when it should have been 11/10, would you give it back if they had lost? If they had won, would you return £1100 or £2100?

kenilworth - if you'd placed a bet in good faith, seen it come home, gone to the store to collect, checked with them that it was ok, they'd said it was and they'd paid you, you'd left with the cash and only a few hours later they'd decided it was wrong odds and contacted you demanding their money back and hadn't even offered to pay you at their so called 'correct' odds, then you're saying you'd happily be giving the bookie back their £950 this morning would you?

No chance, i think you're just playing devil's advocate here.

I once respected bookmakers until they started robbing punters with machines as their principal business. Take peanuts bets but take as much as you want in a machine designed to take your money. High Street Highwaymen now

bookies deserve to be robbed, if you win your banned, place a large bet your band, take the best price your banned.. so clean em out when you get the chance

I'm neutral here. I would certainly say I don't consider it cheating though.

Coral once refused to pay me 'because the price had changed right at the time of the bet', and the guy had mistakenly given me a better price. Hardly a palp, I just got slightly worse odds (at which I wouldn't have bet in the first place). I would say that's MORE unfair than what happened with the guy you allude to, and if the biggest bookmakers do this, it's very hard to feel sorry for them.

Also, being a pro on Betfair, I've had to live with accidentally backing 1.01 for 2k on overs instead of unders (when I used to use the website that doesn't have functionality to stop this), effectively throwing the money away and a few similar mistakes that cost me loads. As I can't recover that, it's once again difficult to feel empathy with the bookies. They have the massive luxury of palps, and if even with that they still pay out and don't find their mistake, at some point you have to say it's over.

Bookmakers are as outdated as black n white tvs.   Mainly cause of price fixing not taking bets etc

true - once they got the machines in, they basically took on the moral status of crack dealers.

I walk past a bookies on my home every night, in it i often see:

1. A bored looking staff member sitting behind the counter
2. 2 people (not always the same 2) playing FOBT's
3. Rest of the shop completely empty

Kenneth and co.
In a time where the
richest are screwing
the poorest
the hardest,
do you really think
anybody is suppose to have
sympathy with a bookmaker?
This covers the ground of
good faith, good faith in the betting
industry especially on sites like this where
where we're all trying to wrestle money from each other,
is about as pertinent as a Greek bankers IOU.
Somebody every now and then keeps putting an AVON catalogue
through my front door,
very next day she's back with a card through the door,
"I hope you're enjoying our catalogue, please leave outside your door
for us to collect once your finished, regards",
If you put something into someone's hand and walk away,
it's no longer your property.
hth.

I haven't been to a bookies for years. What are they like these days?

The crooks have bought purple in a desperate attempt to carry on cheating the public. It won't work the shops here in harpenden will be empty this afternoon and the public laughing when one of them make up a fictitious half million pound bet again

it makes me laugh when you hear how someone put down 100k etc on a bet... how do they do this i cant get 27p on @ stanjames on a treble

Well they're not smokey now Johnny

also, they're mostly fair game because of their adverts. that w!lliam h!ll one with the speccy tw@t doing the power point presentation makes me want to kill.

Yes the stories about the suitcases full of cash at the counter

They are so antiquated that here you can't even use a bank card and if you walk in with more than a couple hundred they act like a robbery is in progress

The bookmakers have always been the enemy to the punters.

Return my first trip to Newbury in the eighties. After a close finish, one bookie whipped out a board and was betting on he distance.

Prices were

11/10 a head , 7/4 a short head and 4/1 a dead heat. Stood there as others were shouting imaginary bets. A few punters had their fivers and tenners on.

Result was a neck.

Zero sympathy for them ever since. Now they are heading towards extinction.

Johnny_Mustang 12 Mar 13 12:14 
I haven't been to a bookies for years. What are they like these days?





My local one is always empty apart from losers burning their cash on FOBT's
The one in central london near my work is always full of Chinese men betting on anything

The eye watering figures those machines take makes me sick. Yes its people choice to put it in the machine but come on last year the takings of them averaged £168 per person in Britain when divided by the population!

Should they be cheated? NO

But i dont think them making a mistake and then asking for the money back and you saying no is cheating, and after all the dirty tricks they get up to which they dont call cheating i say fair game.

i have a coral near me, no lie, its a treble fronted shop ****g huge... i walk in on a sat to put me dads footy on and its me, and 4 guys on the fob's in the corner...

Biscuit "The one in central london near my work is always full of Chinese men betting on anything"

Plus ca change, plus ca la meme chose!

Nice typical story from Harry     They are not much better than the find the lady teams
There wil be some great betting at Cheltenham this week 39 runner 12 fences and evens the fav and two and a half the second fav and mugs wading in desperate after losing take the odds
The tent thing springs straight to mind in the first

Just a last thought a lot do say the major bookies are behind the endless site collapses on here   I'm not so sure but I'm sure they would if they could

Yes bookies and banks are fair game.

A few years ago i put a grand bet over the phone with victor chandler and they called me to say that there was a problem with the money being taken and could they take it now, by this time the horse had lost, all calls are recorded as we know, i explained that i no longer have the money and that was the end of the matter. About the only time i have had any little fortune with our bookmaker friends.

if i oversteak a bet, will the bookies bust a gut to track me down, if i back a non runner ditto, if i plaice my bet after their start time and the bet is voided will they track me down ???

if they make a mistake in my favour is it my duty to track them  down ....

I've been out all day. Quite a response! None of them justify keeping
money they are not entitled to IMO.

Ken, they're fair game if it's  a game of football which is live on the telly

I've been overpaid by bookies a few times, I just assumed that it must be some generous offer they were running that I was unaware of when placing the bet.

What did I miss? Link the particular thread please

Bookmakers are 100% for profit and don't value customers at all unless they lose all the time.
Fair game if ever I saw some.

you didn't answer the question ken

occupational hazzard ken
take it off bottom line under bad debts

I'd love to know why I'm being branded a cheat here, I really would. Please explain the following to me ken:

With the SAME bookmaker only 2 days prior to my win, I tried to get £20 on a 6/5 on a selection that shortened to 11/10. Their rules state that if a price shortens as your bet is being placed (there were 4 seconds left on the clock) then it will be rejected and you will be given the chance to accept the new odds. If the price lengthens, it will be auto accepted at the longer odds.

I argued that I wasn't given the chance to accept the new odds. They claim that I should indeed have been offered the chance, but will not be refunding me. Is this also considered cheating? Breaking their own rules to suit themselves?

Also once had a £25 double at 4/9 and 2/5 with a different bookmaker. 2/5 won, but when I checked my statement the 4/9 had been accepted as 1/100. I got straight onto them (as the match was still being played) saying that the odds were 4/9 and still were, can they change it to the right odds. The selection won and they said no, we're settling at 1/100. Argued it several times with no joy. Is this fair? Is this cheating? I suppose it's fine because as the bookie you'd take this stance too right?

in the old days, tesco used to have a "double the difference" policy when they cheated you at the checkout. Anyone guess why that was?

The answer will imo settle the OP's question and ocuktinsky's issue.

Biscuit,
Are you referring to your post at 10:37? if so
I don't and don't answer hypothetical questions.

You shouldn't be giving opinions when you don't
know all the facts, except if you can't resist
a cheap swipe at bookmakers.

Biscuit, are you referring to your post at 10:37?
If so, I don't opinions on hypothetical happenings.

You should also refrain from giving opinions on events
without having all the facts, unless of course, you
can't resist a cheap swipe at bookmakers.

OP, I couldn't possibly give an opinion
on your last post without hearing the
other side of the argument.

For what it's worth I get the feeling you
are someone who is looking for loopholes,
but I may be wrong.

dog eat dog world.


I couldnt give two ****s. Fare play to you.

Morals really are wasted in this day and age.

Biscuit,
Are you referring to your post at 10:37? if so
I don't and don't answer hypothetical questions.

Biscuit, are you referring to your post at 10:37?
If so, I don't opinions on hypothetical happenings.





Well it was a struggle but i think i can just about understand your broken English. I'll take your refusal to answer a simple question as a no then because if you'd take the money back to the shop you'd just say. But that'd ruin your argument so you can't admit to it.

Also it's ironic that you say you can't give an opinion without knowing the facts yet you've started a thread on it and called him a cheat.

Kenilworth when you where a bookie if bet was placed too late did you shout on the punter back.Because i have seen people go collect a supposed winning bet on horses/greyhounds only to be handed their stake back as was placed late.How many times i wonder are losing bets late but the manager prob pockets it or did you not indulge this behaviour Kenilworth but all the others did.

Are bookmakers fair game to be cheated?

kenilworth 12 Mar 13 08:48 Joined: 04 Nov 05 | Topic/replies: 11,052 | Blogger: kenilworth's blog
Apparently so, according to a particular thread
on this forum and sadly endorsed by even the most
respected and prolific posters on this forum, who
have even been giving advice on how to hang onto
ill gotten goods
e I'm an retired bookmaker who has never been over
payed by anyonso perhaps I'm not unbiased, but
I still feel it's cheating, it can't be anything
else. Very sad that so many condone it.


sorry but i find that hard to believe

sorry about the broken English, it's late.

Looks like you have answered your own question.

Re your last comment, I gave an opinion based
on the deliberate retention of the full facts.
If he didn't feel free to do that, then he has
something to hide IMO, and shouldn't really
have posted in the first place.
Good night.

chaser, your post doesn't merit an answer.

SCOM, nor does yours.

When it was bandits and not roulettes mainly in the old ladcrooks the manager jumped on the bandit at any chance he thought there was a chance of it dropping after some workie with riggers who had busted a gut all day had just done his days wage in it if not more.

Why would you hand a grand back you won.Would he get his quid back if it lost.

Morally, bookies are no different to heroin dealers. I wouldn't shed any tears for a heroin dealer who got robbed either.

Maybe once upon a time people would have been to honest to 'cheat' bookies. Nowadays though the bookmakers are so corrupt and have the rules sown up. Anytime they can get out of paying an honest bet they do, and horror of horrors should you start winning they dont want anything to do with you.

Wonder how many void bets are sitting unclaimed in bookies

How many times have bookmakers hoodwinked and cheated the betting public with their so called "monster" gambles which never ever materialised, some in the "next manager" market,BeT 3 6 5 and Steve Freeth where very adept at getting punters to part with their hard earn cash by giving out stories of so called monster gambles on a particular manager backed in from 6/4 to 1/6 which had their trading desk trembling so much they carried on taking bets from the gullible punter with a big grin on their face.You might well have been one of the honest bookies Kenilworth and maybe a few more like you,but for every one of you that are honest there are at least 10 who are totally unscrupulous.

i will never forget  something that happened at Sheffield dogs about 20 years ago, this chap who was obviously a big hitter shouts a bet "5 on the 2 dog" (betting without the fav) to a bookie just before the off, bookie nods his approval, race runs 2 dog is nowhere and said punter walks up to the bookie straight in front of me hands him a fiver and says "i did say 5", and walks off, bookie looks bemused thinking it was a 500 bet but what can he do ??

Not really the people to be sorry for.

I'm not asking anyone to be sorry for them.

Kenilworth was the man who handed over the grand to this punter NAP

Hi Ken hope you Ok

by even the most respected and prolific posters on this forum,

respected good one.

Can't expect anything else from people, morals are a grey area.
If you're looking for the good in punters you're looking in the wrong place.
I see the most desperate of desperate on a regular basis and there is little in the way of morals or respect, just rounds of begging, cheating, lying and stealing.
Join a village cricket team if you want decency.

For the record it doesn't even register whether right or wrong for me, not a big deal in my book.

did you get sacked Keniulworth if so that is bang out of order you paid this out in good faith because the computer said so.So if i was you id go to the Citizens Advice and make a complaint for unfair dismissal.

Quite opinionated aren't you chaser!
I will take the opposite view to you in all instances if you don't mind.

I only have my own opinion you have yours Rrat so leave it at that

I think morals and ethics were taken out of the picture when they decided to put the liability for their mistakes onto the customers. Its just unnatural, everyone and everything is accountable for their mistakes and just because they can legally get away with it doesnt make it ethical. With that taken into consideration I dont see anything wrong with someone getting away with being overpayed or whatever.

Its their bare faced lies i cant stand..

''a man walked into our harlow branch on saturday with a carrier bag and took out 100,000 pounds in cash, which he placed on the counter and demanded a bet on the favourite which of course we obliged''

yeah whatever, you try doing that with 100 quid and see what their answer is......fkin rancid

sweet child - money laundring ?

wouldnt surprise me in the slightest

i was reading a thread the other day, someone watched a punter feed a thousand pounds into the roulette machine in one go, have a 2 pound spin then printed off the receipt and went to cash it

A few weeks after the void Grand National it was reported that the bookies were sitting on somewhere between 7 to 14 million £ in 'sleepers',presumably from the once a year punters who didn't know or who couldn't be bothered to go back for their refund.Cannot recall any efforts by the 'trade' to encourage this to happen.

If you're reading this post kenilworth,did you have any involvement in this event?

iamajambo, Not guilty, I am retired from the business
for a few years now, but from my experience in the
betting shop I could write a book about punters attempts
to put one over bookmakers.

Did you run your own shop or work for a high street shop ?

I had my own shops.

Ah ok,used to be a few local shops round me ( Chas kendal )

THey were always very fair and ran well,

Would not think twice about returning a overpayment etc to them as they would you, big boys though different story

course you did ken, and a string of race horses, and you're married to an ex miss world

ha ha

was in line for pope