Football
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13 Sep 12
12:13
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02 Mar 08
found this article on nufc.com today,
Yesterday's damning indictment of all aspects of the British establishment following the independent panel's investigation into Hillsborough, was shocking but not surprising for those of us unfortunate enough to follow football in the late 1980s. We always knew The Truth.
Hillsborough could have happened to any of us.
We often found ourselves in various perilous situations at different grounds (including St. James' Park) up and down the country where we were always one slip, one mounted police charge, one gate opening away from disaster.
A few years before the disaster I was in the central pen at the Leppings Lane End, packed in so tightly that breathing became an effort, my feet were off the floor and some of us were sensing the danger.
Thankfully, we were near enough to the tunnel to fight our way out and make our way, despite the non-existent signage, into the side pens which were virtually empty. It had been a death-trap for years.
My colleague was at the White Hart Lane incident, some years later, where it was nothing short of a miracle that no-one lost their lives when in 1987 United fans were almost the victim of callous policing by the Met.
The Park Lane end containing the travelling support was allowed to become dangerously overcrowded while the adjacent paddocks remained closed and unused.
The first few fans to scale the fences were arrested but gradually more joined in and fought with stewards to open gates on to the pitch. And in an eerie foretaste of the Hillsborough tragedy, seated fans above pulled some of those below to safety and disaster was averted.
The police's reaction was to stretch a line of officers in front of the away section which blotted out any view of the match and after the final whistle a vain attempt was made to hold the away fans in their pen.
A midweek game at Maine Road saw a massive crush on the stairs leading down from the away terrace on the Kippax and at one point I was jammed up against the railings staring at a 50ft drop with nowhere to go. A piece of fatigued metal or crumbling concrete would have seen dozens of us fall to our deaths.
Just a year after Hillsborough, our game in Sheffield at Bramall Lane had seen an almighty crush at the end of the match where once again the South Yorkshire police had lost control. Had they learned nothing? I remember writing to The Mag about it at the time.
But things weren't much better at St. James'. Many of the sold out games saw crowds way in excess of the official attendance figures and while some areas of the Gallowgate were packed, the "Scoreboard" section would be dangerously crammed. Kenny Wharton's testimonial game being a surprising case in point.
The "them and us" attitude of the police at the time meant that it never entered their heads that on that awful day, that they were watching a disaster unfold. They presumed it was a pitch invasion and disorder.
It says much about the way this country (still) works that all areas of society were able to collude and cover-up with senior police officers, emergency services, coroners, lawyers, journalists, politicians all in on the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. The legal system serves victims the least.
In the end, it has taken an independent group outside of the establishment to uncover what happened that day and how the families of the victims of Hillsborough have found the strength to carry on their fight is incredible.
Five years after the tragedy Newcastle went to Anfield in a Premier League fixture on April 16th and both sets of fans paid tribute to those lost in a fitting and spontaneous show of unity. It was an extraordinarily moving occasion and like the victims of Hillsborough, will never be forgotten.
The Truth was always there and it's a national disgrace that it took 23 years to make those responsible unable to deny and ignore it.
Will justice follow? Whatever happens now, it'll be far too little, far too late.
Our thoughts go to our fellow football fans who suffered then and are still suffering now. YNWA.
Yesterday's damning indictment of all aspects of the British establishment following the independent panel's investigation into Hillsborough, was shocking but not surprising for those of us unfortunate enough to follow football in the late 1980s. We always knew The Truth.
Hillsborough could have happened to any of us.
We often found ourselves in various perilous situations at different grounds (including St. James' Park) up and down the country where we were always one slip, one mounted police charge, one gate opening away from disaster.
A few years before the disaster I was in the central pen at the Leppings Lane End, packed in so tightly that breathing became an effort, my feet were off the floor and some of us were sensing the danger.
Thankfully, we were near enough to the tunnel to fight our way out and make our way, despite the non-existent signage, into the side pens which were virtually empty. It had been a death-trap for years.
My colleague was at the White Hart Lane incident, some years later, where it was nothing short of a miracle that no-one lost their lives when in 1987 United fans were almost the victim of callous policing by the Met.
The Park Lane end containing the travelling support was allowed to become dangerously overcrowded while the adjacent paddocks remained closed and unused.
The first few fans to scale the fences were arrested but gradually more joined in and fought with stewards to open gates on to the pitch. And in an eerie foretaste of the Hillsborough tragedy, seated fans above pulled some of those below to safety and disaster was averted.
The police's reaction was to stretch a line of officers in front of the away section which blotted out any view of the match and after the final whistle a vain attempt was made to hold the away fans in their pen.
A midweek game at Maine Road saw a massive crush on the stairs leading down from the away terrace on the Kippax and at one point I was jammed up against the railings staring at a 50ft drop with nowhere to go. A piece of fatigued metal or crumbling concrete would have seen dozens of us fall to our deaths.
Just a year after Hillsborough, our game in Sheffield at Bramall Lane had seen an almighty crush at the end of the match where once again the South Yorkshire police had lost control. Had they learned nothing? I remember writing to The Mag about it at the time.
But things weren't much better at St. James'. Many of the sold out games saw crowds way in excess of the official attendance figures and while some areas of the Gallowgate were packed, the "Scoreboard" section would be dangerously crammed. Kenny Wharton's testimonial game being a surprising case in point.
The "them and us" attitude of the police at the time meant that it never entered their heads that on that awful day, that they were watching a disaster unfold. They presumed it was a pitch invasion and disorder.
It says much about the way this country (still) works that all areas of society were able to collude and cover-up with senior police officers, emergency services, coroners, lawyers, journalists, politicians all in on the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. The legal system serves victims the least.
In the end, it has taken an independent group outside of the establishment to uncover what happened that day and how the families of the victims of Hillsborough have found the strength to carry on their fight is incredible.
Five years after the tragedy Newcastle went to Anfield in a Premier League fixture on April 16th and both sets of fans paid tribute to those lost in a fitting and spontaneous show of unity. It was an extraordinarily moving occasion and like the victims of Hillsborough, will never be forgotten.
The Truth was always there and it's a national disgrace that it took 23 years to make those responsible unable to deny and ignore it.
Will justice follow? Whatever happens now, it'll be far too little, far too late.
Our thoughts go to our fellow football fans who suffered then and are still suffering now. YNWA.
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Replies: 174
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Great article mate. One of the many shameful aspects of the Hillsborough saga is people claiming it had anything to do with the club involved (other than Liverpool obviously having a very large following). When clearly it could have been any number of teams.
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Two lines that stick out to me:
The "them and us" attitude of the police at the time meant that it never entered their heads that on that awful day, that they were watching a disaster unfold. They presumed it was a pitch invasion and disorder. It says much about the way this country (still) works that all areas of society were able to collude and cover-up with senior police officers, emergency services, coroners, lawyers, journalists, politicians all in on the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. The legal system serves victims the least. |
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One of the many things that still haunts me, is the pictures of fans, young girls particularly, faces squashed agaidt the perimeter fencing, and police looking at them, but none had the courage or forethought to try and get the gates in the said fences open. What did they think the gates in the fences were for?
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agaidt = against
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Well a huge, painstaking investigation has just concluded that they were not. So the burden of proof is upon you to back up your allegations. Until then we will just assume you are an ignorant, bigoted t0sser.
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VS: bobby thinks Ricky Hatton is a scouser
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the forum will always struggle if you dont ignore those clowns
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bobbybocala 13 Sep 12 16:56
oh so im a clown......for not believing this shiite. Yep you most certainly are, you should've left it there to be honest. |
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In the mid nineties I went to a midweek game at Hillsborough. Leppings Lane was still closed, or maybe home fans, I think and the away fans were in a side section. Arrived about 7.15 for 7.45 kick off....2 turnstiles open and hundreds of fans waiting. Police on horses doing nothing despite what was becoming a little agitated. Few more turnstiles opened 7.30ish.Big roar at 7.40ish as the teams came out and a general push/shove outside. We missed the first 10mins but I remember thinking 'of all the grounds for this to be happening...have they(the police)learned nothing?'. The cover up absolutely stinks
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Suprised Jack Straw hasnt been crucified yet..didnt he utter the immortal words "Scousers, always upto something" back in 89/90 ish while reffering to Hillsborough?
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the truth is inconvenient to alot of people.....
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Value Seeker, you seem clued up about all this and have read everything, could you please advise what is the motivation of the 'families'? Their single minded aim to me is motivated by less justice than the money that will come from having an organisation to admit responsibility.
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@ Captain Christy
what a scummy, horrible, nasty thing to say. Anyone losing a child is motivated by the desire to see the truth come out about how their child died. Its nothing to do with money. And in the case of the Hillsborough families, it was to prove what we always knew, it was that the victims were innocent and blameless. To disprove the lies that portrayed the fans as the ones who caused it. |
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Can you please let me know then marychain why there are repeated references to 'bread winners', and the desire to put Sheffield Council in the frame?
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Furthermore, it was never implied that the 'victims' were to blame, the people who were 'blamed' were other Liverpool fans, so that is an emotive red herring.
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And as for bobbybocala -
I've never had much time for those who were willing to swallow and perpetuate the lies the Police told and were spread by The Sun, and I've corrected plenty of ignorant people about the facts around Hillsborough over the years. If you were significantly motivated to want to have an opinion on it, it was easy enough to access and read the Interim Taylor Report, and that made it perfectly clear the fans were blameless. I read it when I was in the 6th form in the mid 90s. But now it has all come out in the media, there is absolutely no excuse for such horrendous slander. Coming out with that sort of crap now makes you implicit in the cover up. It makes you as bad as the scumbags who tried to hide the truth for the last 23 years. There's an old saying which is dont speak ill of the dead. I only hope that you are just a sad little keyboard warrior, because anyone who voices that sort of shyte you've come out with on here in polite company should get the treatment they deserve - a smack in the face that knocks them on their back. I'm not a violent or a confrontational man, but I'm a big man, and if I heard anyone saying the sort of things you've written in this fred, you'd be shy of a few teeth. |
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Captain Christy - I think it widely accepted that given the span of time and the likelihood of the major players in the tragedy being either dead or infirm - Sir Bettison being the most notable exception - it seems unlikely that compensation is the prime motivator for the families. As one of the bereaved mothers (I can't recall her name) explained yesterday, the defence for the police was paid from public funds; the defence for the reputations of the dead was paid from the pockets of the bereaved. This does not strike me as mercenary behaviour.
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where there is blame there is a claim, maybe I'm cynical but I would be shocked if once they manage to put someone in the frame that claims will not follow, you should never underestimate the motivational factor of filthy lucre.
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where there is blame there is a claim, maybe I'm cynical but I would be shocked if once they manage to put someone in the frame that claims will not follow, you should never underestimate the motivational factor of filthy lucre.
I will defend everyone's right to freedom of speech till my dying day but in your case I have to say I'm seriously struggling. I mean really struggling. |
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Rather than talk rubbish can you please then let us know why their are repeated references to the loss of bread winners and the desire to put organisations rather than individuals in the frame? The ONLY reason for this is to pursue a claim.
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Don't push it mate.
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Let us know then Marcce, what is the reason? There are no answers of course.
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Let us know then Marcce, what is the reason? There are no answers of course.
Do you get some perverse gratification from coming across as a scumbag on a public forum or something? Easy to do when you can remain anonymous I suppose. |
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If you've got nowt to say, why reply?
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bobbybocala 13 Sep 12 18:43
marychain.......i dont hav to neccesarily believe reports......its not as if liverpool fans are whiter than white......tell that one to juventus......i can understand the magnanimity of the tragedy.......what i cannot understand is after all this time.....they find the liverpool fans blame free..... FFS not another idiot comparing 2 completely different, incomparable situations. Unless you've been living under a rock all your life, you'll know that Hillsborough could've happened to fans from any club. The OP of this thread being a perfect example. Do you seriously expect us to believe that a 2 year enquiry, 400k page report that found Liverpool fans innocent was wrong........and that you are right  |
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Christy may be coming across has completely unsympathetic, but I would expect the families of the victims will be seeking compensation and will already have been advised to. Obviously nothing can ever replace their losses, no amount of money will change what must ave ruined their own lives. But still they will want th money if not for themselves but for better lives for their other love ones for generation to come. I know id want every penny that was going.
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theres a difference between being a scumbag......and being a realist......
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People ARE in the frame. Bernard Ingham, Irvine Patnick, Kelvin MacKenzie, Stefan Popper, Peter Wright & Norman Bettison. These men did worse than those who caused the initial tragedy; those who caused the tragedy were "just" incompetent. The aforementioned engaged in actions afterward that created a smokescreen and besmirched the reputations of people who had died in the most tragic of circumstances, adding to the trauma of an avoidable disaster. It would be difficult to sue any of those named above as they had no operational role at Hillsbrough, except perhaps Wright (who I believe to be dead). So this sniff of filthy lucre that you describe, where does it lead?
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Just felt the need to point out your character flaws.
As for their motivation they're not anonymous and easy to find. Ask them yourself instead of seeking attention on an internet forum. It may put your mind at rest. |
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some on here should hang their heads in shame
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what i cannot understand is after all this time..they find the liverpool fans blame free......
If you`ve read the report you should be able to understand. Come on Bobby who do you support? And please tell the truth. |
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biscuit.....and you think that the police....doctors....medical people......politicians....all lied.....and the only truth tellers were those well known paragons of virtue......the liverpool soccer fan......
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Wonder what it feels like living in blissful ignorance?
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grumpygit.....im a united man......but thats irrelevant......
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Nobody thinks anything cos,since yesterday,it`s in the public domain that they did lie.
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You do surprise me!
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Would you be comfortble with a Liverpool fan such as myself blaming Duncan Edwards for the Munich disaster? Of course not, and I wouldn't (mostly bacause it isn't true). You're accusations are that unpalatable.
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god loves you I would suggest that you read the comments made by some 'families' to the media threatening legal action against South Yorkshire Police.
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theres a difference between being a scumbag......and being a realist......
Do you want some realism? Fans of just about every club in big games would have gone along without tickets. People would often have had a drink. But the utter contempt the government of the day had for football fans meant a tragedy like that almost became inevitable. On that very same day I also stood on an overcrowded terrace at Leicester as a Chelsea fan. It was a game that would have confirmed our promotion had we won. For some reason it wasn't made all ticket and far too many Chelsea fans turned up than the away end could cater for. But no worries because the police just let them in anyway with no consideration of the danger that created. And that most certainly wasn't the only dangerously overcrowded terrace I stood on back then either. |