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Hi swinging great write up as usual ,why is Quintana not riding for Movista ,after watching him last year thought looked a future tour winner ,I dont know too much about cycling but i try to watch as much of Le Tour every year as i can ,I see he won the
Giro, seems a strange decision to go with Valverde ahead of him ... |
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another progressive rider looks to be
Mathais Frank he is untested as a GC contender over a 3 week Grand Tour. Moved from BMC to IAM at the end of last year to lead the team. After a slow start to the year he has progressed well. He won the Queen stage and finished 2nd at the Criterium International, 4th in the Tour De Romandie, won the Queen stage and again finished 2nd at the Bayern Rundfahrt before finished 2nd overall at the Tour De Suisse. He will lose time in the time trial but is one to keep on the right side of. Outright price ranges from 100/1 - 500/1 |
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Hey case, I think you know enough about cycling to have considered him a future Tour winner.
The obvious answer is that they are being careful with him, and that's true. The GM of Movistar is Unzue, and he is a very smart man with lots of experience. Quintana is a young man and Movistar want a future Tour winner, yes, but they also want him to fulfill his potential as a rider, and when you prize something you treat it carefully with the long-term outlook, not for any short term gain, and Unzue is serious about his job. Quintana is someone special, Unzue recognizes this and is allowing him to take steps for the long-term, which means less pressure than what the Tour provides and developing his skills, slowly but surely. And Quintana is a smart young man also, he sees how he is being treated and knows that such treatment is much better for him than the big money another team would throw at him to switch teams. Family over money if you will. Also, last year some confusion came into the team after Valverde missed-out in that crosswinds stage, and I think Unzue owes Valverde a proper, fully committed team to get his chance at glory. So a combination of factors exist, but of course riding and winning back-to-back GTs is quite rare, and after Quintana rode in the Giro, there was no way he would be riding here. By having had Quintana ride the Giro, it opened the opportunity to give Valverde his crack at the Tour, but it also proved that Quintana can win a GT this early in his career, without the intense scrutiny and pressure which comes with the Tour. Everybody wins. Contador at only 25 yo was the last rider, in 2008, to win two GTs in the one year, and that's something which it would appear Quintana might attempt, if he rides the Vuelta later. Contador won the Tour the year before, something which Quintana came close to doing. So guess what GT Quintana will be riding in 2015 if he rides the Vuelta and performs well? On the issue of Valverde, and I have been backing him since he was in the 50s, what excites me is what I've included in the guide on him: He has had a great season in the classics. Moreover, there has been a clear Tour objective, no conflicts, no last minute issues, no opportunity for anything to get in the way of the plan, which has meant a good rest after LBL, some good preparation including the recon, and now a devoted team on a parcours which suits him more than it would Quintana, who would prefer all three-weeks in the Alps. Thanks for the question mate, SP |
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I think that's an interesting distinction you make CM. Some riders respond really positively to a committed team behind the rider's role of captain. It turns something on in them, and they just set down into the task with relish. Frank is up in class though, and I would discount him on that basis alone, however the parcours suits him more than if there was a number of big stages in the Alps. Nevertheless, Rui Costa gets the same chance as Frank to ride as captain, and in a better team, and not only did he beat Frank well in Switzerland, he is a proven stage winner over hilly stages in the Tour. Maybe a trade for some, but I can't have him. SP
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ITV4 are showing the team presentation now. Looking forward to a great three weeks.
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Bertie wins and should be fav.....he says he is better shape going into this race than any other grand tour....curtains for the rest
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Love a bit of Mathias Frank but I don't think he's consistent to be up there at the end of three week tours. I have him in the same category as Leopold Konig but really hope they both do well. I can see them challenging for stage wins and staying with the favourites for the most part but having off days.
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Edet backed for polka dots. Triple figures.
bon chance etc |
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Not three figures anymore, but even 80/1 seems good value for a rider who won the Mountains Jersey in the Vuelta last year. Thanks V, I'll take that! SP
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CJ70 i like Konig too and will be looking to back him for appropriate stages later in the tour
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Thanks swinging All makes sense now
I like Valverde ,g luck with ur bets ![]() |
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Cracking write up SP!
![]() I am anti-Froome for this. Not because I don't like him but because I'm not convinced about his form the strength of the team or the parcours. I also think Froome can be a bit dodgy mentally, and wouldn't be surprised to see him buckle under the pressure Astana, Movistar and Tinkoff will apply. I would have Bertie as favourite, but think Nibali and Valverde will be big players. |
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No worries case, hope you have a good Tour also, mate. Thanks MC, I think I like the form guide approach the most, on account of it being more open and therefore more accessible for the reader making their selection.
MC -- I'm not getting involved in any big way, beyond my early positions, till after the pave stage. Definitely agree that Bertie is still good value after some good moves on him in the Dauphine. Just nibbling on small bids above 2/1, since there's still plenty of movement in so far as you say (and I agree) he should be favourite. I haven't made my decision on Froome, I've brought him back to field red, and will continue to buy some time with him, but am not convinced by your assertion that his mental strength is suspect. Would need more convincing on that? A lot will rest on SKY team's performance, again, especially if Porte can repeat his strong riding of last year, but it was a promising ride from Nieve in Dauphine and if he can take the burden off Porte some, then they might become the finely-drilled machine we have come to expect from them in the past, and that might be enough to say: advantage Froome. Will be surprised to see AST piling on any pressure, and TCS will miss Kreuziger to some extent. MOV might be imposing, their tactics in the Giro show that it is still part of their culture to start bar-room brawls, but they will have a different dynamic to the Giro team here which might be more suited to sending out forward scouts for Valverde. I think we're pretty close here so far. Cheers, SP |
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There you go, mental weakness
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By book is looking excellent now, lovely green all over, with much bigger greens on Valverde and Nibali
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FROOME OUT
![]() Bertie odds on Valverde price halved |
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Nibali odds on
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Missed Nibali at odds on that was a hell of a play.
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Thing in, how's Contador (or anyone else) going to make up 2-3 minutes. Not in the time trial. In the mountains? Doubt it, Astana look ridiculously strong.
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This is a wonderful parcours, we've seen some amazing action so far
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After Tirreno I think we know what is coming if it needs to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBGwIyUxtpE |
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marychain1 09 Jul 14 14:46
There you go, mental weakness I just can't believe you said that actually, MC. SP |
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It was a bit tongue-in-cheek but then not completely.
The thing is with Froome I've always thought he lacks the clarity of thought of a top level competitor. I know he's won a lot of very good races but I've always thought he can be a bit flaky when pressed and stressed. He just seems to make bad decisions when under pressure. Think of him attacking his own team leader in 2012, think of him attacking from miles out in Romandie when Spilak won the stage into Aigle. Then there's the crashes. I know a lot of them aren't his fault, but his riding style where he looks down at the floor instead of in front of him predisposes him to crashes in my opinion. I also think he just looks mentally brittle at times. He won the Tour in 2013 but was pressured at times by Quintana riding only his second Grand Tour. This year the competition was always much stronger, and he looked like he was feeling the pinch. To be honest, it looked to me like Contador had got in his head in the Dauphine. The fact that Froome was also so clearly insecure about having Wiggins in his team also points to someone that was not confident of his own chances of winning. Admittedly, none of these things alone are much to go on, but the whole picture when put together did not assure me that Froome should be odds on or close to it. Also, the cobbles were always looming as a massive issue for him. He didn't even get to them, but even without the injuries from yesterday and the earlier crashes I think Froome would have lost at least as much time as Contador today, and I was dead against him right from the start. |
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That's why you need Bertie on your side.... EPO, blood transfusions... plus whatever new schemes they have to prevent detection
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So let me guess this right: Knowing that I was open to being convinced by your assertion, you bring this up now just to make you point, when the crashes had everything to do with his wrist and not mental weakness? Pathetic! SP
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It's just further expansion of the point I made before the Tour that I was against Froome. Is it really necessary to resort to calling me pathetic?!
I thought you were on Bertie anyway, not Froome? marychain1 01 Jul 14 20:48 Nibali and Valverde are the two that interest me, but I've already got Van Garderen on board and might go in again at 66/1. I would have Bertie as favourite, but think Nibali and Valverde will be big players. marychain1 05 Jul 14 16:21 Joined: 05 Apr 05 | Topic/replies: 23,321 | Blogger: marychain1's blog Cracking write up SP! ![]() I am anti-Froome for this. Not because I don't like him but because I'm not convinced about his form the strength of the team or the parcours. I also think Froome can be a bit dodgy mentally |
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I believe I've made my positions quite clear MC, so you'll forgive me if I don't go around advertising my satisfaction from the misfortune of others, and worse misrepresenting the matter by tailoring it to suit an earlier theory, because it'd just be poor form, yes pathetic actually. SP
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I don't really understand your anger and I'm sorry if I have caused you offence in some way because that wasn't my intention.
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I acknowledge your apology but it wasn't necessary, I'm not angry and I'm not offended, I just don't appreciate unfairness. I just pity you that you decided to link the two issues in question, and that you had to do so after the fact. I recall you said that this forum is best when it's about US versus the Books, yet on this occasion you decided to only support your theory on Froome's mental weakness after the fact, and did so by linking two unrelated matters since his crashes had nothing to do with his mental approach but a wrist injury. I didn't understand the need for it, and don't, and moreover I fail to see how showing pity is being angry?
I mean you provided half-a-dozen paragraphs, yet there was nothing when I stated the following: am not convinced by your assertion that his mental strength is suspect. Would need more convincing on that? Why you chose to convince me after the fact, and not before, suggests that it was more about proving a point than expanding a discussion for others to read and draw their own conclusions. Cheers, SP |
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The insight and analysis on this thread is excellent.
The tour is wide open, with a handful of contendors in with a serious shout. Would be brilliant if this thread could put differences aside and continue with the analysis/discussion of the tour winner. We're in for a cracking couple of weeks! |
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The reason I didn't expand on the point further then is just because I have not had time to contribute anywhere near as much as I would like on the forum this month. I've been snowed under at work, had a family medical situation that has required a huge amount of time and I'm also training for the Etape du Tour in a few days time.
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Is this really a two horse race between contador and nibali? I can't help but think there is a little each way value in the likes of porte and talansky. Going to be a hell of an effort from nibali and astana to keep the yellow from the second stage all the way to paris.
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Talansky tweeted hes alright after crash
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poor Matthias Frank out with a fractured leg
Porte is 3rd favourite for the outright which seems ridiculously short, I can not see any scenario where he finishes on the podium, looking at his palmares ok he has won Paris -Nice but his best Grand Tour finish is 7th in 2010 Giro. Sky seem to be talking up his chances but i think they are trying to save face on what has been a season of complete disaster for the team |
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Shame about Frank thought he looked strong today, presume he was involved in the crash at the end?
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Nibali has proven in the past that he is a cool customer when it comes to leading a GT for a long way. In his 2013 Giro win, his favourite GT event, he was 5secs behind Benat Intxausti when in 2nd place after stage 7, and then from stage 8 he took and held the lead all the way into Brescia, increasing it consistently when racing against inferior opposition in a weather-affected race. He had one stumble when he failed to back-up the mountain stage 14 for the very next mountain stage 15 start, however his opponents failed to take advantage and his lead remained intact.
As MC has said on a different thread, Nibali is a smart rider and I think with such a big lead it'll be very hard for his opponents to dislodge him from the top of the GC. He has good experience and knows that he doesn't have to do much to win this race now, however riding to protect a lead has the potential to blow-up in his face, and whilst Valverde and Contador won't likely make the same mistake the other riders did in the 2013 Giro when Nibali was exposed a little on that mountain stage -- they will have to ride exceptionally well, and they may have to conspire together to find Nibali's weaknesses. I am being consistent with the following view after closely following Valverde's season and particularly his build-up for the Tour in riding the Route de Sud as his key preparation and recon, but I think Valverde can have a very strong 3rd week in the Pyrenees where he can still win this race, and whilst he has shortened significantly from the 50s at ante-post when best priced, I have decided to take out half of my investment at this time, as an insurance policy for Nibali's commanding position in the race. As most of us realize, these first mid-mountain stages in the Vosges will reveal a lot, and whilst a Nibali win looks strong at this time, there is a good list of riders behind who can work together to chip away at Nibali's lead and find a way to come back on even terms. SP |
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Hi all,
Nice to see a thread on the great race........cheers SP. Had a nice bet on Nibali ages ago,and could not have wished for a better start. Still a shame though about Froome as far as race is concerned,but still plenty of other contenders. Just had this feeling that Nibali was saving himself earlier in season for this race,and to me he looks as strong as he ever has right now,and get the feeling his team are very confident. Contador is his main threat of course but I actually think Nibali will out climb him in the high mountains. Main problemM that I see is the Time Trial,and of course accidents. Be interested in others opinions on the mountains and the TT, as far as Nibali staying in Yellow is concerned. Cheers. |
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Don't think Nibali will lose much time in the TT
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hope you are right mc
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