England v India 2nd Test.

I think they don't have a clear alternative and, as such, choose to back their chosen squad to the hilt

there has to be a better opening batsman in the country than crawley. bobbins fielder to boot, defo not upto top level international standard

shocking from pope

this pitch is a minefield last hour, pathetic

root gone

Dragon - Zak is actually a decent fielder (has 64 catches in tests) - any player can drop a dolly like he did today, i've seen Joe Root spill a few like that.

Ladbrokes/Corals are only giving 33s on an England win, have they no shame ?!

I got my draw price to equalise. Happy with the outcome. Have left the red on Engerkund, not give red. If they win from here I would be on cloud nine so the money doesn’t matter.

We are turning to the post mortem before the last rites.

If the odds allow it I shall consider a huge Hail Mary play although I think the chances of rain are now receding.  There are few reasons why England should not bat out the day in this pitch. There is plenty of batting left although the ball is only 16 overs old. Should they survive to 30+ overs unscathed they have a fighting chance.

India have scored at 5 an over with ease, so no reason why England could not score even quicker i suppose, hence the extra caution in setting a target

The indications are that England could wrap this up by tea……………… the evidence is there… 13 runs, 0 wickets in the last over!

according to bbc weather , thundery showers till early afternoon

Possible

I would prefer to get it corroborated by a local. It is supposed to be raining now. I checked out at 6.4 and now it is down to 5.6 on the draw so an indication if may be raining

Ashley 6.6 at 22:58 yesterday

Now 5.6

It's raining here in Brum Whispering,no guarantees how long it will continue.

Thanks Foinavon

Should clear up by 11 from the forecasts but you never know. Happy to have the draw.

Did you see or hear Black Sabbath last night?

It seems to be clearing up a bit now, it's definitely brighter and the heavy stuff has gone. I'm about 2 miles from the ground.

I've heard OF Black Sabbath but no idea what they do. Presumably some call it music.

Rain stopped completely now. Still heavy cloud cover which is likely to stick around.

Still half an hour to go, if it stays like this light might be an issue. The air feels damp outside although no actual rain.

Covers on

I did mention to Dixie ….. and there was some derision….. where there is rain there are clouds

I feel the pitch is relatively benign. After the shine has gone from the New ball and the leather has gone soft I believe the England batsmen are good enough to bat the day out. It is a great test of determination and ego and one I would expect these guys to take up.

I think there will be enough time for India to have a good crack at this too. Hopefully we will all have a great day regardless of the result.

Cook just mentioned the pitch is a featherbed when the ball is soft. I don’t expect the pitch to blow up but there may be the odd shooter, easier to defend if you are not looking to cream it!

I have also read on evidence that England could wrap this up by tea…… going on the evidence of the last over yesterday 13 runs no wickets

Raining again, quite heavily

I've bit the bullet and loaded up on the draw. I should have taken advantage of the earlier 6 but was unsure.

Yeah it is a difficult call. 2 or 3 wickets early and it will be hard to recoup that. I might have backed the draw further at. 6.6 but it would have cost me India green. I am equal on draw and India so I am out save for a Hail Mary on the draw if the price is right.

Reassess Foinavon

They will only start losing overs after 1 hour. Every chance there will be plenty of overs and movement in the draw price. The rain will stop.

Reassess Foinavon

They will only start losing overs after 1 hour. Every chance there will be plenty of overs and movement in the draw price. The rain will stop.

The ball might get wet though. It is really a difficult nice edge call imho

Rain has stopped and brighter over the city of Birmingham

Going out again

Early lunch?

3.7 now!

I don’t have a problem with the declaration. If he went earlier who is to say it might not have been 150-1?

It is what it is. The rain may hav3 finished by 11 today now it looks like an early lunch. Let’s jus5 hope we see some exciting cricket this afternoon

Agree I have to be watchful, it's still raining though although it's light rain now.

Yes,

I should keep my beak out. Not my call!

Apologies.

Trying to trade these swings, the market is unsure and looking for the turning point. 70 overs will not be enough for Eng to get the runs and should they recklessly go for it they won't last long.

Not at all, I appreciate your comments.

I think the upswing will come very soon and am switching my position.

if they even considering going for this ,  it will be the last straw for me in test cricket, it wont be reckless its kamikase , there isnt a hope of even getting the runs even with a full days play hence 600 on here , for me if we get a session eng will probably be bowled out

Yes, it's brightened up now even the sun is breaking through. There will be some play this afternoon by the look of it.

Still raining - I don't see any brightness

Looking like 70 overs will be available - draw looks the bet for me

It's gloomy and raining again, just the view from my window, it's changing by the minute.

I think 70 overs might be enough for India.

England were never going for this no matter what they say. Crawley played a duff shot the other two got good balls. England have batted pretty well due the most part. If the clouds remain it will be difficult fir England. If the ball gets wet it will be difficult for India. India might need more than 70 overs for this spinners to extract wear and tear out of this pitch. Jadeja has less wickets than Bashir!

My current trading position is tilted towards anticipating an upswing in the draw price, I don't advise anyone to follow me in this. I hope we will see play start soon after lunch.

Green but draw preferable , good luck all   

england green 910,     draw green260     india red  169

There we have it.

Poor play from Pope - draw now looking unlikely. Didn't expect an early wicket

haydn post       You can see this going one of two ways , couple of big partnerships and it's a nailed draw with a session to go or England go 80-5 and we wonder what all the fuss was about

Us that have the draw as preferable keep dreaming , whilst there are two class players at the crease we keep believing.

60 overs to go is like a life sentence though   

spot on with your 80-5

Me and my big gob

So naive & braindead by England
They let Jadeja bowl an over in 1 minute, and that allowed the final over
You've just got to be smarter than that

Agree Jerry , that's akin to managing the clock in the NFL.

He got that over in with 3 seconds to spare
Just retaking your guard negates that

agreed, and the captain was out there

What is the RRR?

England got them on the ropes. Do they have enough time to get the runs?

I love this Smifff superb batsman

windies need 277 to win the 2 test v aus . And s africa on 1 day v zimbabwe 415-3 in 80 overs

9.07 an over as we speak WD , you confident   

That must be the end of the line for woeful Woakes, creepy Crawley & the Pontiff
All absolutely pony trap

Shakoor Rana umpiring?

Yeah!

The 3 wickets last night really vindicated the declaration. I would have gone earlier

Good, Smifff deserves his hundred

Yes i'd have gone 50 runs earlier at 550 , not a run earlier than that though due to historical respect and also a tad fearful.

oh windies 0-1

I have a lot of sympathy for Ben Foakes but Smiff is a top draw batsmen

I have not closely at his keeping

It's not easy with India bowling well but England's tactical naivety in trying to save the game has been poor.

Yup no sympathy for Smiff not getting his century now. I was thinking to myself go on throw down a slow ball bouncer. Bleedin’ obvious. He should have expected that!

I still like him. This is a forlorn hope.

Could do with Jimmy Anderson now to hold up one end   

Still a fast arm but split his fingers so credit the bowler not scorn the batsman

mulder needs 137 runs more tomorrow to beat laras highest score.  .    surely 30s on the draw has to be of interest

Congrats to India.

Hope everyone has banked a few quid.

Put Smith up to 3, bring Sibley and Foakes in and drop Zak and Pope.

Spineless effort today by our arrogant bazballers and it really peed me off to see them laughing and joking at the tail enders antics towards the end.
I bet they learn nothing from this hammering.

England Captain comes out for TV interview chewing gum.

Dear oh dear, how standards have fallen.

I would take Jennings before Sibley.

Not sure how either are batting. Harsh to get rid of Pope, he is a poor starter not ideal for a number 3.

Crawley needs to go. Not sure who comes in. I would like a look at Bethell.

Atkinson and Archer for Carse and Tongue. I like Carse but he needs a rest. I like Tongue and he goes to Aus.

Bashir stays because who else is going to be better on flat wickets when Stokes gives the oppo first go on flat wickets in sunshine?

Sibley was renowned for his stickability when last in the test side but critics said he scored too slowly. He has now developed a more attacking game and is averaging 75 this season in Division One.

Jennings of course currently plays against Division Two attacks which are pretty weak - Ben Compton of Kent would be just as good a bet and has scored over 900 runs this season and his side are bottom of the table !

Harsh on Karen Nair but I would bring in Druv Jurel. He plays with a straight back, great technique and application.

Kuldeep must come in sadly for Sundar or perhaps Reddy who is a good player but 12 does not go into xl

Bumrah obvs comes back for Krishna

I would not be too harsh on England. India were magnificent.

The bowlers need to ask Stokes what the hell he is thinking. He got away with it at Headingley when h3 should not have and double downed here. Further to that players like Carse who gave everything g despite being clearly injured and in pain are suffering b3cause of his stupidity.

I am not calling for his head but someone needs to have a word with him.

Unlike many I neve4 thought the loss of Kohli and Sharma weakened India. Quite the reverse. If it was down to me I’d have a 14yo opening at Lords and move KL down to 3. The child is not ready for Test cricket but I have absolutely no doubt he could thrash a hundred at Lords!

Yeah, I cannot comment as I have not seen them in action but I do not disagree with you

New word for you all or at least for me!

Once again it was Deep who set the tone for his captain here. Any movement was always going to be fleeting, and yet he charged in with purpose and exploited it to the maximum to see Ollie Pope and Harry Brook banjaxed by deliveries that nipped in. Pope chopped on for 24 via a crooked defence, while Brook’s lbw for 23 was set up by a succession of outswingers followed by the sucker ball.

I agree that India were superb in this game WD, completely outplaying England in all aspects of the game.

But it's the complete lack of adaptability in the current England set up that gets my goat - it's their way or no way.
The match was there to be saved today and a lack of application/technique let them down. Granted, bazball is very entertaining but you have to have a Plan B.

Ian Botham was a box office draw as a player, none were generally more attacking than him, but i remember the 5th Test in 1987 v Pakistan at the Oval where England were in a hopeless position as the 5th Day dawned as they needed 476 in their 2nd innings just to avoid an innings defeat, they were about 150 for 4 overnight. Instead of playing his usual game and going down in a blaze of glory, Botham and Mike Gatting batted all day just defending and padding up. Botham scored just 51 not out from 209 balls and Gatt scored 150 not out from 302 balls. They secured the draw ending on 315 for 4 - it was not thrilling but was enthralling (to a cricket fan of course). They knew how to adapt to the match situation, which i fear the current set up do not.

An Irish girl of my past acquaintance used to use the word banjaxed from time to time, usually when i'd had one beer too many !

Jul 6, 2025 -- 7:13PM, DixieDean60 wrote:

I agree that India were superb in this game WD, completely outplaying England in all aspects of the game.But it's the complete lack of adaptability in the current England set up that gets my goat - it's their way or no way.The match was there to be saved today and a lack of application/technique let them down. Granted, bazball is very entertaining but you have to have a Plan B.Ian Botham was a box office draw as a player, none were generally more attacking than him, but i remember the 5th Test in 1987 v Pakistan at the Oval where England were in a hopeless position as the 5th Day dawned as they needed 476 in their 2nd innings just to avoid an innings defeat, they were about 150 for 4 overnight. Instead of playing his usual game and going down in a blaze of glory, Botham and Mike Gatting batted all day just defending and padding up. Botham scored just 51 not out from 209 balls and Gatt scored 150 not out from 302 balls. They secured the draw ending on 315 for 4 - it was not thrilling but was enthralling (to a cricket fan of course). They knew how to adapt to the match situation, which i fear the current set up do not.An Irish girl of my past acquaintance used to use the word banjaxed from time to time, usually when i'd had one beer too many !

They didn't play for the win today

Where did i say they were playing for a win today Jerry ?

I said that they lacked application and/or technique.

You are quite correct Whispering, the game was lost from the decision at the toss. Number one rule, if you win the toss you have a bat.
Crawley is the cat with nine lives, surely by now enough is enough.

This is akin to remembering (Atherton and Russell??) surviving against the cosh in SA.

The reason these results are remembered is precisely because they were memorable...they were out of the ordinary.

I'm not trawling cricket history to know that for every Athers or Beefy/Gatting survival, there were countless losses/collapses in similar situations.

England applied themselves today, but they weren't good enough.

Deep, in particular, bowled beautifully and snared our best two (Root and Brook) with absolute jaffers.

Great series, set up wonderfully into Lords.

Also agree...would like to see Crawley jettisoned, but I suspect he already would've been if there was another cab waiting in the rank.

We are all in agreement on Crawley though without an alternative

We all agree India were superb and Akash dud send down a few Jeffers to get wickets, certainly Brook ( banjaxed and Root ).

Dixie I think you are being a little harsh. India also got the best of Umpires calls. Small margins sometimes. Also Bashir has more wickets than Jadeja and Sundar. I think India did well to keep bowling so many unthreatening overs rather than smashing him all ove4 the gaff and sending him back to County. Indian batsman could destroy any spinner we put out and he has got Pant 3 times albeit Pant has two centuries and an 80.

I think England applied themselves well. You know the big difference was that India batted first twice in most helpful conditions. I don’t expect Stokes to admit he was wrong because he doesn’t have to… everyone can see it particularly his bowlers. He is Captain Fantastic and our talisman but he is human and has got it badly wrong. It is up to the team to tell him particularly the bowlers but also the batsmen who deserve first use and not have to bat on day 5.

Rather than point fingers we ought to embrace some fantastic cricket. Oh the other thing is the pitches are too batsman friendly because England have adopted this we can chase anything philosophy. Test cricket has been around for 150 years. It is one of the few games that are influence so much b6 weather and the state of the pitch. Stokes ignored them at his peril. Once he got lucky the second time his bowlers paid a heavy physical price. His batters hav3 to face a rested Bumrah at Lord# and India have found a new strike bowler. God help them if Kuldeep plays.

Given that Zak can hardly score a run at the moment surely ANY other opener can do no worse ? I am a big fan of his being a Kent supporter but you have to put county loyalties aside here, which is why i suggested Sibley deserves another chance (it really hurts to big up a Surrey player !) given the way he has improved since his last test in 2021. Also Ben Compton is not such a daft alternative given the weight of runs he has scored in the last three seasons, he actually averages over 45 in First Class cricket.

As for umpires calls i believe England benefited more from these at Headingley so maybe things even out a bit. Of course Harry Brook survived due to umpires call early on in the first innings here which made a big difference to England's final total. So i'm not sure it made any material difference overall. Bashir is i am afraid not a Test class spinner at this early stage of his career, he did take more wickets than the Indian spinners but bowled 19 more overs than they did, 3 of his 5 wickets were in the end of innings slog and he went for 286 runs in the match ! His test average per wicket is 37 runs and his First Class average per wicket is a massive 48 runs, he is far too expensive.

Stokes has not been in form with bat or ball for some time and his captaincy has been below par of late as well. Maybe some complacency has crept in.

The forum is of course all about opinions and that naturally means fingers get pointed (we all do it WD, even you !). That's just human nature.
Totally agree about the Indian bowlers at Lords, if it's a typical pitch there then the English batsmen will really have to up their game. Kuldeep will surely play if they can fit him in - he should have played at Edgbaston.

Aptdemon - the point i was making earlier was about how Botham, one of our most attacking players ever, went totally against his instincts and reined himself in for the good of the team. Our current players either do not have the technique or perhaps the patience to do something similar.

There was talk of Jennings before and Sibley recently, even Bell-Drummond. There used to be a problem that needs addressing agreed.

I Ashley agree with you on application. Batsmen should be able to defend better particularly the technically good players. Yes they do get a pass. Botham was magnificently correct. He could have played purely as a batsman. Got hundreds against every Test nation except the West Indies.

My view on Bashir is conflated. No he is not good enoug( yet but also who is and I do think I know the answer to that….. none of them!

There is no answer to the Spin question.

I do understand your anger or lets call it irritation[:laugh: I am more caught up in two magnificent Test matches to focus on anger or disappointment. It will be interesting what happens next. India certainly on the up but an hour and a half under cloud at Lords can change things dramatically

an hour and a half under cloud at Lords

It's going to be 5 days of scorching sunshine

So it gets very humid in London a5 the end of the day and the balls swings. It gets muggy and murky at Lords with all the pollution

Do you watch cricket at all Jerry?

All set fair as you say Jerry. Heat might raise enough moisture for swing or the dryness with quick bowlers could generate reverse.

Expect a hard, fat grassed pitch

England should beware of what they wish for.

I am a little concerned about a grassy Lords wicket!

It would be a turkey shoot.

I might nibble on that draw. Lords is a good ground and day 4/5 the pitch is good.

Shirley they will not risk humiliation by grassing the pitch. It then could become a coin toss.

Given the way these two teams have been playing i would be surprised if it was a draw WD - Lords is generally a result wicket. Of the last 30 tests England have played there only 5 have been drawn and 4 of those were weather affected to some degree.

The cupboard is bare regarding English spinners which is why Bashir will be retained, even though he can't get a game for his county !
Again i lay the blame at the door of too much one day cricket and the messing about with the County Championship - there is nothing to encourage youngsters to take up spin bowling and it is something of a forgotten art. Sad times.

Yes I have been looking at the records but still think 9 is attractive combined with an England lay, small stakes.

There is a chance that this could be a good pitch and sun shining. Both teams have players who can bat.

It is a bit of a Hail Mary tbh.

Really hard to call this. Both teams now have strike bowlers of kwality. Kuldeep must play!

Think I Will keep my powder dry.

Looking at the weather I think whoever wins the toss will have a good advantage (providing they bat of course). If it is India I will be pressing the bet to win button fairly sharply.

Yes or Lay England which I am building sub evens

Make no mistake England are a good batting team on a flat pitch! They could easily bat 5 and a half sessions imho.

The questions for me are how much grass on the pitch?

Any first session moisture.

Any swung late in the day

Any chance of reverse because there are a lot of 88mph bowlers

Bumrah can rip through any team. I like Archer and Atkinson. I have a feeling India will go after    Bashir aggressively on this pitch to put pressure on Atkinson and Archer. If it is flat and Woakes bowls at 80mph it could be another 2 long days in the field for England.

I think the toss and the first hour are paramount to decision making. Unfortunately I am a gambler and might take a position against England

I got the draw too in case of a lay back on good batting.

Just seen a picture of the pitch. It is extremely green. They will cut  the grass but it has been well watered.

It really is a keep your money in your pocket pitch now. There are 6 decent seamers and if the grass is live and long it could be a problem. Having said that there may be an opportunity because the rest  of the match might be great for batting.

I am waffling. I have opposed England on the toss of a coin.the draw may be a possibility but if wickets fall before lunch we may well get an opportunity for that big Hail Mary we dream about so will be holding some back for that!

Archer for Tongue is the only change. Carse looked pretty beat up. He should be rested. Gives his all and should be better protected.

England got going to have to bowl India out in less than 90 overs. I have a feeling India will target Bashir and try to knock him out of the attack to put pressure and work load on the 4 seamers.

The pitch will be the key. It really is Russian Roulette if they get a green seamer.

It won't be green for long with the sun beating down
I think Stokes will be happy to lose the toss.

Morning all, welcome back to leafy north London. It's time to roll up your shirt sleeves and get ready for a tug-of-war. Never mind pace and bounce, we're looking at attrition and nutrition - because a proper battle, in conditions that won't quite budge, is nourishing for the soul.