Sturgeon and her genius messaging as Scotland begins exiting lockdown

As he attends SAGE meetings, it's difficult to know the length and depth the advice he has given the Prime Minister.

May 28, 2020 -- 6:40PM, politicspunter wrote:

May 28, 2020 --  5:39PM, Cider wrote:Calderwood was repeatedly on the telly in Scotland telling people what to do I believe. And after going to a holiday home with her family twice, was given absolutely no sanctions by Sturgeon before attending a coronavius biefing to deliver the health message to fellow ScotsShe was chopped the day the story came out.

Sturgeon knew and still saw it fit for Calderwood to continue to be the face of public health advice. She was dropped after the humiliating press briefing before Sturgeon had full knowledge of her misdemeanors. That's not even considering the flat out lie they tried to pass it off as one visit for security checks

As he made clear in his Downing Street garden speech, he needs to contact the PM on dozens of occasions each day normally. Sometimes he does, sometimes he just goes ahead without consulting him.

I wouldn't think Cummings offers anybody medical advice, in fact it's quite preposterous to suggest he might. One can be fairly sure though that the distillation of that advice into a simple three word slogan was entirely his doing.

May 28, 2020 -- 6:45PM, Cider wrote:

May 28, 2020 --  5:40PM, politicspunter wrote:May 28, 2020 --  5:39PM, Cider wrote:Calderwood was repeatedly on the telly in Scotland telling people what to do I believe. And after going to a holiday home with her family twice, was given absolutely no sanctions by Sturgeon before attending a coronavius biefing to deliver the health message to fellow ScotsShe was chopped the day the story came out.Sturgeon knew and still saw it fit for Calderwood to continue to be the face of public health advice. She was dropped after the humiliating press briefing before Sturgeon had full knowledge of her misdemeanors. That's not even considering the flat out lie they tried to pass it off as one visit for security checks

She was chopped on the day the story came out.

It came out the day before WRONG AGAIN

At what time?

Cummings doesn't need his hand holding, unlike many of you it appears.

May 28, 2020 -- 6:48PM, Cider wrote:

Cummings doesn't need his hand holding, unlike many of you it appears.

Correct, he doesn't need any rules either.

How do I know. I do know the SNP responded to reports, claiming it was a security check the day before.

What time at and what day?

The all powerful Nicky, kowtowing to the press beating, who'd have thunk it

She isn't weak, unlike Boris.

hmmm the man who kicked 17 MPs out of his own party, creating a negative majority, turning it around to win an 80 seat landslide, so weak

A monkey with a blue rosette on would have won the last election.

Up to date polling has the SNP at 54%. That's the highest I can ever recall.

The Scottish Sun published pictures of a family trip to coastal town Earlsferry, despite the lockdown.

The newspaper reported Dr Calderwood walked across a golf course yesterday (Saturday April 4).

On 5 April 2020 she was visited at home by officers from Police Scotland and warned about her conduct.

On the afternoon of the 5 April 2020 First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced that Dr Calderwood would be "withdrawing from media briefings for the foreseeable future" and explained that the government would be revising its public information campaign.

Several hours later, on the evening of 5 April 2020, Calderwood resigned.She issued this statement: "People across Scotland know what they need to do to reduce the spread of this virus and that means they must have complete trust in those who give them advice".

So she was chopped on the day the story was published.

It was published 4th, visited by police morning of the 5th, does the press conference afterwards after being visited by the police (lolz), resigns Sunday night.

Which paper was it published in on the 4th and can you give a link please?

.https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5460581/coronavirus-scotland-catherine-calderwood-chief-medic-covid-19/#comments

Oldest comments dated 4th

The Scottish Sun on Sunday then asked why the Chief Medical Officer was ignoring official advice.

An SNP Government spokesman replied: “Since this start of this epidemic, the CMO has been working seven days a week preparing Scotland’s response.

“She took the opportunity this weekend to check on a family home in Fife as she knows she will not be back again until the crisis is over.

“She stayed overnight before returning to Edinburgh. In line with guidance she stayed within her own household group and observed social distancing with anyone she was in passing in the village."

May 28, 2020 -- 7:14PM, Cider wrote:

.https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5460581/coronavirus-scotland-catherine-calderwood-chief-medic-covid-19/#commentsOldest comments dated 4th

The papers 5th April first edition was online at 10pm on the 4th April, as are all papers normally.

May 28, 2020 -- 7:18PM, Cider wrote:

The Scottish Sun on Sunday then asked why the Chief Medical Officer was ignoring official advice.An SNP Government spokesman replied: “Since this start of this epidemic, the CMO has been working seven days a week preparing Scotland’s response.“She took the opportunity this weekend to check on a family home in Fife as she knows she will not be back again until the crisis is over.“She stayed overnight before returning to Edinburgh. In line with guidance she stayed within her own household group and observed social distancing with anyone she was in passing in the village."

She was chopped the day the story was published. Now compare that action to Boris and Cummings or Jenrick for that matter.

So the story broke on the 4th. Do you think the SNP spokesman asked Calderwood what happened, or made it up

The story broke on the newspaper of the 5th.

The same day she was chopped.

The SNP were asked for comment before it was published obviously. On the 4th.

https://community.betfair.com/chit_chat/go/thread/view/94038/31640547/dr-calderwood#flvWelcomeHeader

There is the thread on here, started on the 5th.

It's there in black and white, dated 4th. SNP had ample warning before the presser.

The only reason she resigned as the public face as CMO, (or was told to) was they couldn't face down the criticism. Not due to being caught flouting the rules. Their plan was to ride it out.

As I have explained to you, all papers bring out first edition front pages at 10pm the day before they publish. The story was in the paper dated the 5th. Feel free to find a reference to the story on the forum from the 4th April, or before even.

I'm not inclined to think it should have cost her job either, but when you're the face of the advice and go on two separate family holidays it's harder to justify. I can see why she resigned.

Just shows how weak Boris is. Sturgeon chopped her the day the story was published.

As I have explained to you, SNP were asked to comment on the 4th. It's when they became aware of the flouting that is significant, not when the paper was in the shops.

She was chopped on the day the story was published, that's good enough for anyone.

Pish - she was the main medical spokesperson and appeared daily.

At 4.50pm, the First Minister said Dr Calderwood would continue to adviser her and the government but would not front media briefings and said the current public information campaign featuring the CMO was in the process of being withdrawn. The Scottish Government confirmed the revised campaign will not feature Dr Calderwood.

Dr Calderwood's resignation announcement arrived just over four hours later.

At the mid-afternoon coronavirus press briefing, Ms Sturgeon said  it would be “damaging not to have the ongoing advice and expertise” of Dr Calderwood.

After the pictures emerged of Dr Calderwood's visit, the Scottish Goverment defended the CMO, saying that her family's visit at the weekend was to "check on a family home in Fife as she knows she will not be back again until the crisis is over."

The statement, which made no mention of a second visit, went on: "In line with guidance she stayed within her own household group and observed social distancing with anyone she was... passing in the village."

On Sunday,  Dr Calderwood that she had actually been to the same second home the previous weekend too, with her husband.

"It's important to be clear, that I was also there last weekend with my husband, "she said at the daily coronavirus briefing.

"I did not follow the advice I am giving to others. I'm truly sorry for that."

Before removing Dr Calderwood from public-facing duties for the foreseeable future, Ms Sturgeon stressed that while she did not condone anyone breaking the guidance on preventing the spread of the virus, it would be “damaging not to have the ongoing advice and expertise” of Dr Calderwood.

Not correct, as the resignation was forced by the media. Not out of any duty or responsibility for breaking the rules.

PP Changing your behaviour based on what Cummings did means you werent following the rules because they were sensible and you thought you were helping lives but just did because you were scared by the State.

If you really did think they were neccessary and are now going out putting lives at risk just because of Cummings that says a hell of a lot about you none of which is good.

twisted logic of the left

May 28, 2020 -- 7:48PM, Cider wrote:

twisted logic of the left

As I am a traditional Conservative voter, I assume that remark was not addressed to me?

Wetter than Tom Daleys sphincter.

May 28, 2020 -- 7:49PM, politicspunter wrote:

May 28, 2020 --  6:48PM, Cider wrote:twisted logic of the leftAs I am a traditional Conservative voter, I assume that remark was not addressed to me?

I find your views to be substantially left wing.

Out of interest, assuming it's not Boris, which current Westminster MP would be your first choice as PM?

Jeremy Hunt.

I think I am pretty fair. If you sat an independent person down that had no prior knowledge of the cases of Calderwood, Jenrick, Ferguson and Cummings and asked them to consider reports on what they had done, I would be surprised if they picked out correctly, when asked, the two persons that had been chopped as soon as the stories broke.

At least he's a Tory Unfortunately doing a lot of after timing about being prepared for a pandemic and lack major testing infrastructure planning when he was health sec for over six years. I did like Boris saying to him the mistake was not learning from SARS or MERS

May 28, 2020 -- 7:59PM, politicspunter wrote:

I think I am pretty fair. If you sat an independent person down that had no prior knowledge of the cases of Calderwood, Jenrick, Ferguson and Cummings and asked them to consider reports on what they had done, I would be surprised if they picked out correctly, when asked, the two persons that had been chopped as soon as the stories broke.

I hate the cancel culture that has slipped out of social media into real life, for anyone. I hate that many people act as if they are angels when in fact they are hypocrites. If the individuals think they should resign, fine. If their employer feels the misconduct is so bad it requires summary dismissal, fine. It should never be up to the mob, or the media.

As I am a traditional Conservative voter, I assume that remark was not addressed to me?

What a lie. politicspunter is a dyed in the wool supporter of the snp cult and lives in Scotland.

He gave himself away as Meadows with one of his first posts as politicspunter by quoting Meadows from a thread that had been removed some weeks before.

SNP supporters telling lies on the internet. Well blow me down. What next. Sun coming up tommorow?

BTW loved her interview today. Well the bit that the OP mentions..
As Cider says whilst extolling the merits of the Stay at Home message she wants the meetings held outdoors as there was less risk of spreading the infection.
Right got that Nicola. Stay at home outdoors. Crystal clear and not in the least bit confusing like Stay Alert for instance.

Politic Punter supports Surgeon because he has made money historical backing the SNP.

He hates Boris because he thought Boris could never be Tory leader and him winning was not a good result for him. Only a big high risk lay bet on Andrea Leadsom saved him losing on the market.

All his comments since are based on this history.

Has to be said. I thought Sturgeon was quite smart. I heard 46% of deaths in Scotland were in carehomes. Not sure of the numbers that have died in Scotland but we knew from Italy the old people needed protecting.

This is very sad. Our country is fcekin* useless, jocks’n’all

Care homes deaths around 50% is terrible..hospitals told to clear out bed blockers for expected avalanche of covid patients..they had to go somewhere..some were taken by family others into care homes  ..god knows what the right action was...England claiming 28% care home deaths but in reality if you look at excess deaths its probably very similar to Scotland's

That makes it even worse Kenny. South of the border the people in charge were stupid and did not have a clue. It was obvious from Italy this was killing old people. Everything doon sooth was to save the embarrassment of the Tory Party from NHS catastrophic failure. The old people in care homes and hospital beds were sacrificed. Do you know if this happened in Scotland too?

This thing about seeing people in gardens and not using the toilet is utter push too. Time to get on with it but ffs shield your old people better.

Keep saying it, the Scottish Gov could have saved many lives if they hadnt ditched the track trace, test up here.
Ireland with a similar population managed it - where did they get their tests from? The same place as we could have?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Ireland, Korea, Germany etc all managed it much better.

Btw all geriatric patients were taken out of main Aberdeen hospital and put to another hospital facility in the city (Woodend). They were certainly not sacrificed nor were they sent back to care homes with covid19 which means the outbreaks were almost certainly caused by other workers coming and going and transmitting virus, hence the need for regular testing throughout (which is still not happening), might not have saved all but a percentage certainly would have even with their underlying conditions.

I should say the above concerns Grampian NHS, I cant speak for other Trusts in Scotland

nes..Ireland care homes deaths 52%...N.Ireland over 50%....

Terrible figures Kenny all govs. have to get it right if it returns with a vengeance later in year.
I still believe it was a mistake to ditch it though esp for health workers coming and going to multiple workplaces.

which means the outbreaks were almost certainly caused by other workers coming and going and transmitting virus

It is not rocket science is it! D'you think someone could have worked this out before hand? We don not need hindsight. It is shocking that those charged with leading us all over the World have failed us so miserably. Not having a go at Sturgeon or Scotland here but I would have thought they could have done better on this. We are lead Baldy,a Prime Minister who thinks the rules don't apply to him and his sidekick the fat one! We should have expected what we got, you should not.

whispering...it is difficult to admit failure but unlike the English govt our lot are far more transparent and copious amounts of covid related data are published regularly...6 days with no info about people tested is an example of Englands lack of info...why not published?..draw your own conclusion.

I give that post a big tick

May 29, 2020 -- 12:04AM, sofiakenny wrote:

Care homes deaths around 50% is terrible..hospitals told to clear out bed blockers for expected avalanche of covid patients..they had to go somewhere..some were taken by family others into care homes

yes doon here everything seems to be about political expediency, even the science and not save the NHS, save lives!

May 29, 2020 -- 10:35AM, sofiakenny wrote:

whispering...it is difficult to admit failure but unlike the English govt our lot are far more transparent and copious amounts of covid related data are published regularly...6 days with no info about people tested is an example of Englands lack of info...why not published?..draw your own conclusion.

JEANE Freeman today apologised for misleading the public about the number of elderly hospital patients sent to care homes at the start of the Covid-19 crisis.

Scotland's Health Secretary admitted she had given out incorrect information that suggested only around 300 people had been discharged to OAP residences up to April 15.

Health Secretary Jeane Freeman apologised for misleading the public over the figures

The Scottish Government confirmed on Wednesday evening that the actual number was 921 - but for the month of March only.

Ms Freeman's inaccurate comments underplayed the number of patients sent to care homes - mostly untested - under a controversial practice that has led to fears the virus was transferred from hospitals to OAP residences.

And the Scottish Tories claimed today the Health Secretary "no longer has the confidence of the public".

There are fears that emptying wards of elderly patients at the start of the pandemic - in case beds were needed for coronavirus  patients - "seeded" the virus in Scotland's care homes, where at least 1,623 people have now died.

There was no policy to test patients who leave wards until April 21, as Ms Freeman initially refused to bring in mandatory checks despite pressure from opposition.

The incorrect information emerged at a media briefing on on April 15, when Ms Freeman and Nicola Sturgeon were quizzed by The Scottish Sun on how many patients were sent to care homes at the start of the pandemic.

Cider, this was news about six weeks ago?

quote 'our lot are far more transparent'

I've already quoted the snp spokesman saying Calderwood went to Fife once for a security visit. Completely discredited by Calderwood herself the next day.

The Nike conference was also a cover up, apparently ground zero for there.

These are not examples of transparency, I'm unsure why exactly when they occurred is relevant.

Cider, that earlier story was in the news six weeks or so ago. The Health Secretary apologised and said she had made a mistake.

I think we covered everything about the Calderwood story yesterday.

It's a clear rebuke to sofiakenny's claim that 'are lot are more transparent'. Apologising after getting caught out is nothing to do with transparency.

Here is some up to date news...
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/four-five-scots-say-nicola-sturgeon-has-handled-coronavirus-outbreak-well

Over three quarters (78%) of Scots think the Scottish Government has handled the crisis well so far, compared with 34% who say the same of the UK Government.

The picture is similar when it comes to the leaders of the two governments: 82% think Nicola Sturgeon has handled the crisis well, while 30% say the same of Boris Johnson. Over half of Scots say that Boris Johnson and the UK Government have handled the crisis badly (55% and 51% respectively).

These sentiments are reflected in Scots’ views of government communications during the crisis. An overwhelming majority (86%) feel the Scottish Government’s messaging has been clear around what to do in response to the coronavirus, with just 8% saying it has been unclear. However, the Scottish public are much more critical of the UK Government’s messaging, with more saying it has been unclear (48%) than that it has been clear (39%).

A Scottish poll about the UK government. About as useful as a chocolate teapot

Scotland is part of the UK. Westminster represents the whole of the UK.

That does not paper over the examples of the lack of transparency I've highlighted. Nobody needs a poll when there are actual examples.

Scotland hate Boris and likely hate Cummings even more. Telling people to stay at home is a pretty easy thing to do when you don't have any responsibility for the cost. I doubt many Scottish people are going to complain about sitting on their backsides and receiving a chunk of cash from Westminster (as they would perceive it).

Well, at the end of the day, both Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnson represent the Scottish people, at Holyrood and Westminster respectively. The results of that poll tie up with numerous other data coming to light, including the SNP at 54% (never seen it that high) and the Conservative lead over other parties in free fall (now at 6%), so it appears to be a combination of the Scottish Government/leader doing well and the UK Government/leader doing not well at all during the pandemic, not just in Scotland. I do understand clearly now why Donald Ross felt he had to resign in order to support his constituents.

You keep going on about polls. Someone claimed the SNP were more transparent and I debunked it. wft has that got to do with polling or a junior minister resigning

You haven't debunked anything I'm afraid.

Surely if the Scottish Government were much less transparent than the UK Government, the figures regarding messaging during the pandemic would be the opposite of what they actually are?

Remember, it's not you or I that were asked in that poll. It's Scottish people that are directly affected.

That would be like running a Guardian poll on BBC impartiality. Which would win a huge majority in the affirmative that it is, when the clear evidence is the opposite.

Quoting a poll on biased people as credible evidence is frankly ridiculous.

The poll isn't biased in any way.

The sample is.

It's ridiculous for you to suggest it is. The polling company would be out of business next week if it was.

Khan is going to win another term in London, and it won't be for his competence

Well, that's for the voters of that great city to decide.

For your poll in Scotland to be a fair judgement on the respective government's handling of the crisis, you'd have to use a sample which was as Tory voting as SNP before the crisis. Which it won't be. I should not be having to educate you in polling.

You aren't

D minus

The pollster is one of the very top ones. They will have taken an accurate representation of the electorate, including all ages, regions and party voting history.

Obviously. There's nothing wrong with the integrity of the polling. It will however contain inherent bias.

In what way do you think it's biased?

it's like trying to educate pork, Cider

i think politicspunter likes you btw

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1266382178474176513/photo/1

Different pollster this time, up to date (29th May) covering folks throughout the UK. Same story as previous poll, Scottish Government miles ahead of UK Government in handling pandemic.

Pedantic windbag Steptoe rides again.

Ok flush

That is pretty good

Please tell me you have not rehearsed that line or been waiting months to use it!