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Do we need Lockdown?
Do we need Lockdown?
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Replies: 246
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It
You also forgot to tell us when Brazil hit peak & how many weeks that was after 20 or 100 Covid deaths. |
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IT
Who exactly are these people "who would never get it" Are these magic people who scare off the virus before it can enter their bodies and start to infect them. Any link to back up this. Once again the top bods in medical profession have forgotten about your magic millions who can never be infected. |
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Mex,
Do you think that everyone that is exposed to the virus will catch it? Serious question. |
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Mexico
23 May 20 14:23 Joined: 25 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 6,489 | Blogger: Mexico's blog It You also forgot to tell us when Brazil hit peak & how many weeks that was after 20 or 100 Covid deaths. ^ Where in Brazil are you talking about? |
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For instance we cannot say 'Europe' has peaked yet because many countries/areas shut everything down so fast they might get an outbreak to get up to the 10-20% level. Place like London UK and Stockholm Sweden have peaked.
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Mexico
23 May 20 14:27 Joined: 25 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 6,489 | Blogger: Mexico's blog IT Who exactly are these people "who would never get it" Are these magic people who scare off the virus before it can enter their bodies and start to infect them. Any link to back up this. Once again the top bods in medical profession have forgotten about your magic millions who can never be infected. ^ Simple example is people under 20 are 50% less likely to get infected if exposed to the virus. |
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IT
That 50% figure could be achieved in two rather separate ways. (Note thies studies are in very early days ) There could be 50% of children who have a sort of superpower which means they cannot become infected- I.e. They will never catch Covid 19 Or it could mean, Children required more exposure to the virus to become infected. I.e. If an adult has a 5 minute chat with an infected person they have a 30% chance of becoming infected. For children this is 15%. You seem to be saying it is definitely option 1 - and there are millions of "naturally immuned" people who can't ever be infected. You once again have failed to provide any evidence to support your theory and prove all those professors are wrong. |
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Mex,
I did not say XYZ person could never be infected. If there situation changed that of course they could. What you have is a different probability that different types of people will become infected on exposure. More exposure and that could go up. The point is every person that currently has a low chance of catching it (previous virus exposure, stronger nose membrane, less developed cells for the virus to clip onto etc) to more the chain of infection is destroyed. The 5-20% that have have had anti-bodies in the UK are people that caught it. Likely the most likely to catch it probability wise. Combine that with the rest of the population where more people are less likely to catch it and you can send the virus packing in 12 weeks or so. |
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Pre immunity is a big factor in diseases historically so no reason why it wouldn't be a factor with this.
That there is no 'proof' of it yet is not surprising, as a disease has to be around and studied for a long time before it is understood why certain people will be immune or much less affected. |
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By:
Ton
Possibly a reason take "pre immunity " won't be a factor this time is because it is a new virus unknown to homans. That may not be the case but best not to say... So no reason why it wouldn't be ..... As far as I'm aware none of the scientists working on the problem have mentioned "pre immunity " as an important factor. But hay-Ho what do these microbiologists know that the chit-chat elite don't. |
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Pre immunity has been discussed in the studies suggesting 10-20% infection could be enough for herd immunity. Not discussed so much by scientists employed by governments that support lockdown.
You can be pre immune to a new disease. That is how evolution works. Genetic mutations are random and do not arise in response to anything in the environment. But they may be useful to someone who inherits them thousands of years later. eg there is a genetic mutation that one individual was born with in prehistoric times. Two thousand years ago only 1 in 20,000 Europeans had it. Now 1 in 10 have it. It is theorized that much higher incidence today is because those that didn't have the mutation were killed by The Black Death. |
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Oh yes those professors who work for the government are controlled by the NWO . To find the truth It is best to listen to scientists on you-tube
Any chance of a link to this news article about UK pretty much already having heard immunity due to the "Pre immunity " Seems like important news - would have thought these scientists who have worked this out would want their work to be published so life can get bact to norm. Come on ton - this is to important to keep secret- post the news here. |
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London boroughs were far out in front for cases in March, now there are hardly any new cases there in late May.
How can this be ? Is it the lockdown ? If so, why are there many more cases at this time in areas that are also locked down ? Seems that infected people in London are just running into people that were already infected or immune. |
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Still no link to all these scientists discussion "pre immunity "
If there a 4 hour you tube video where we can discover "the truth " provided you hav an "open mind" and don't believe the MSM? Come on rob, waiting for this link with shows all those professors don't know what they are talking about & we are basically all safe to return to "normal" lives. |
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Interesting read from the former head of the Israeli health ministry who is against lockdown.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/22/nothing-can-justify-this-destruction-of-peoples-lives/# Key paragraph (as stated in so words many times here and by other experts) "Any reasonable expert – that is, anyone but Professor Ferguson from Imperial College who would have locked down everybody when we had swine flu – will tell you that lockdown cannot change the final number of infected people. It can only change the rate of infection. And people argue that by changing the rate of infection and ‘flattening the curve’, we prevented the collapse of hospitals. I have shown you the costs of lockdown, but this was the argument in favour of it. But look at Sweden. No lockdown and no collapse of hospitals. The argument for the lockdown collapses." |
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"Any reasonable expert – that is, anyone but Professor Ferguson from Imperial College who would have locked down everybody when we had swine flu – will tell you that lockdown cannot change the final number of infected people. It can only change the rate of infection.
will you give me a tenner for every reasonable expert i name who disagrees with this view? tia |
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Spiked online and Israel,absolute vermin.
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The elephant in the room is still the economy.
Whether the lockdown was right or not can be argued both ways. What is not in doubt is that it was too late and now it is too long. The economic catastrophe debate has been kicked down the road. Forgetting the financial impact I do Ashley believe more people will die from non corona virus related issues. I could accept the lockdown because of ignorance but the timing was political, which, is a disgrace and it’s continuation is just plain stupidity and will have serious implications for all of us for years to come. |
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"Dominic's Law" basically signals the end of lockdown. unless he gets emptied.
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So thegigglio says Israel are "absolute vermin". Once again one of the forums most sick bigoted scumbags shows his colours.
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The link I posted is an intelligent thoughtful article by an intelligent man, it's unsurprising it won't be read by the likes of "thegigglio" or the mob of pitch fork wavers on here..
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Mexico
23 May 20 21:20 Joined: 25 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 6,493 | Blogger: Mexico's blog Still no link to all these scientists discussion "pre immunity " ^ Do you accept the premise that some people are likely less susceptible to becoming infected that others or are you one of the people that think it is likely for 100% of the population to be infected eventually? We have had many threads of the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine paper last month. Gupta says the same thing. As do everyone apart from Ferguson when pushed. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v3.full.pdf The reality is a terrible mistake was made by government and other scientists when Ferguson produced his numbers. Now the code has been discredited it is very hard for other scientists on SAGE and the government to admit they got it wrong by falling into a group think alternate reality in mid-March. The cost of focusing on clearing the NHS for Covid at the expense of everything else has cost countless lives already. The unnecessary lockdown will cost lives and livelihoods for years to come. |
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I don’t think the lockdown was unnecessary it was just too late and too long.
Did you read the Sunday Times article that was posted here? Why are you blaming Ferguson and not the Government? |
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I am blaming Ferguson, SAGE for not asking questions and getting a second opinion (if they didn't) and the government for not getting a second opinion (if they didn't).
They are all to blame for focusing too much on clearing the NHS due to Ferguson dossier suggesting the NHS going to be overrun. Skynews putting out wall to wall coverage from a hospital in Italy did not help things either. |
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Perhaps at the next General Election you can vote Ferguson out of office!
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Haha.
No Imperial College standing by him and saying the government use a variety of different inputs. Imperial gets a lot of funding from foundations and companies. |
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 lest we all forget |
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Nobel winning scientist says Lockdown was a waste of time and cost more lives than it saved:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/23/lockdown-saved-no-lives-may-have-cost-nobel-prize-winner-believes/ "Michael Levitt, a Stanford University professor who correctly predicted the initial trajectory of the pandemic, sent messages to Professor Neil Ferguson in March telling the influential government advisor he had over-estimated the potential death toll by "10 or 12 times"." |
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Levitt has been saying this for months since the first data came out of China.
He was one of the first to spot the trend of deaths flattening and going into decline in a an effected area after 4-6 weeks. Of course pro-Lockdown fanatics hate him and everyone else that has worked out the trend of the virus. It does not suit people like Boris and Macron to admit they made a mistake. |
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Of course, there are more expert opinions on this complex topic than you can shake a stick at.
Simply pick the one that aligns with your views, and you have constructed a rock solid case. |
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Angoose you got anything up to date that suggestions/proves UK style lockdown has saved lives.
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Ferguson apparently wanted us to have a lockdown during feckin "swine flu".
What a track record he has. His "tips" are worse than Money Trees. Yes I know this is the mail but if the figures are wrong, please point out where. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294439/ROSS-CLARK-Neil-Fergusons-lockdown-predictions-dodgy.html "The next year, Ferguson was back to claim that vCJD, the human form of mad cow disease, could kill between 50 and 50,000 Britons – a range so broad as to be almost useless for policy-makers. He also said the human death toll could rise to 150,000 if the disease passed to sheep. That apocalypse never came: today the death toll from vCJD stands at just 178. Undaunted, the prophet of doom returned in 2005, this time warning of bird flu. ‘Around 40million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak,’ he declared. ‘There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200million people probably.’ No you couldn’t. To date, according to the World Health Organisation, H5N1 avian flu has killed just 455 people globally. In 2009 Ferguson claimed that the mortality rate from swine flu was in the range of 0.3 per cent to 1.5 per cent, but was ‘most likely’ to be 0.4 per cent. Based on this figure, the Government’s ‘reasonable worst-case scenario’ suggested that Britain would suffer 65,000 deaths. By the end of the year it was reported the actual mortality rate had been just 0.026 per cent. The UK death toll at the time was 283." |
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Here's one expert claiming that entering lockdown one week earlier would have saved 11,000 lives.
It's in one of the newspapers that you like. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8339497/Coronavirus-UK-deaths-limited-11-000-lockdown-started-sooner.html |
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That is the Southampton model a think. It does not account for deaths from NHS shifting resources, people being scared into not using the NHS, mental health deaths and deaths from cost of lockdown on livelihoods.
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So why did the Government listen to Ferguson?
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He hypnotised them
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Whisperingdeath
24 May 20 11:26 Joined: 25 Dec 11 | Topic/replies: 27,606 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog So why did the Government listen to Ferguson? ^ Good question and one that needs to be answered at some point. I think the government got spooked by Ferguson, Italy and other countries. Get it wrong you can just say we followed the science and other countries were locking down so we did it. They did not want to be an outlier. Look at the criticism the Swedes are getting from the lockdown fanatics for having for having the right policy. |
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Read the Sunday Times IT
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No.
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The next time there is widespread fear-mongering(backed/financed by big bank, big pharma and/or other assorted elite interests)will the governed/people blindly follow the dictates of their govt/leaders(who are mainly the approved selections of the aforementioned fear-mongers)? Modern societies are primed/trained to obey 'authoritarian' figures so I wont hold my breath.
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