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GOVERNMENTS 5 TESTS TO SOFTEN LOCKDOWN

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Replies: 87
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:22
By using the phrase "killed by COVID-19" you (and others) are implying that vast swathes of people are dying "from" COVID-19 whereas , in reality , they are being classifies on the death certificate as dying "with" COVID-19 .Massive difference . You are well aware of a situation which I have personal experience of in which an 89 year old hospital patient was diagnosed as having tested positive for COVID-19 when a diagnosed heart problem led doctors to believe they wouldn't survive the night and two days later when they responded well to treatment they were told that they didn't have COVID-19 and may be well enough to return home to their 86 year old spouse .
How do you explain this ?


Angoose • April 25, 2020 7:50 PM BST
How very inconvenient of COVID-19 not to start killing the British population starting on Week 1, eh.

................ fair enough Blush
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 25 Apr 20 20:23
why do you use 500,000 when 200,000 was used by government


probably 28,000 killed by covid so far, some may have been on their way out, but it still robbed them
of precious time.
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:24
probably 28,000 killed by covid so far, some may have been on their way out, but it still robbed them
of precious time.

Misleading turn of phrase .
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 20:26
I think more likely 40,000.

When all said and done one way or another it will be over 100,000 in the UK that directly or indirectly die from this with the current plan.

The longer we keep people locked up the longer we delay the pain.
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 20:26
How do you explain this ?

Simple, you made it up.

I think it's a big, big coincidence that first you come on here spreading stuff about it being all exosomes and a hoax. Then when people obviously shoot down your total bollocks, you come back like two days later telling everyone how your suspicions had been verrified because your super isolated for four weeks dad had been tested positive for SARS-CoV2 and further confirmed because doctors acted completely against protocol (as you just told us again).
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 20:28
As far as I can tell Belgium, Sweden and to some extent France are the only ones including suspected care home deaths.
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:29
edy • April 25, 2020 8:26 PM BST
How do you explain this ?

Simple, you made it up.

What sort of warped mind suggests that I make something up involving my own father ?



My sister asked this very same question and was told "There are two different tests" . She replied "Is that one test designed to give a positive result and another test designed to give a negative result?" .
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 20:31
What kind of man makes such things up about his dad?

People with an agenda to convince it's all a hoax.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 25 Apr 20 20:31
Just gone on Twitter and seen Hopkins and her usual amplifiers making exactly the same points I've seen on her.


Pretty clear that there are some pretty influential people out there looking to get the public to get back to work despite the risks. Weird (well) how it's the brexity types who parroted every message from these types then are the same ones swallowing the rich capitalist message now.
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:33
I have no 'agenda' because I don't possess the power to push one Cool
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 20:34
Why did you ask Angoose earler in this thread if he has an agenda. Do you think he possessed the power to push one?
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 20:36
pp, what on earth has the lockdown got to do with Brexit?

It is really strange to find the same people who always argued against me supporting Boris and the Tories when that sort of things mattered now supporting the Tory governments's actions as the best policy compared to the socialist Swedes.

It is almost like the world is inverted.

Except it is not. Some people support individual freedom and liberal values - no lock down and trust the public. Some are not so liberal. They want the government to tell them what to do.
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:37
I simply won't automatically accept as truth the statements made by individuals who choose a career within an industry that is reliant on spreading untruths and lying to the general public by misuse of statistics and deception .
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 20:37
Instead you blindly accept the most illogical nonsense from your favourite grifters.
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:39
I 'blindly accept' nothing . I prefer to use judgement based on personal experience and logic .
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 20:41
You agreed earlier that there was something going on with the deaths, but you weren't sure what it was exactly. I asked you what your best guess was.

Do you wish to answer what your best conclusion is what is causing the significantly higher death numbers in consecutive weeks?
By:
ben96
When: 25 Apr 20 20:46
Going back to the opening post am i correct in thinking the main obejective of the lockdown was to make sure the NHS could cope and capacity was available? We know the lockdown has worked and the NHS now has plenty of capacity with admissions dropping by the day. Surely now the government should be clear on what its exit strategy is nothing is going to change in the next week or so they need to start giving the public some optimism and honesty. The longer they keep saying there is no end in sight the more people will lose hope and start breaking the lockdown as we are starting to see.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 25 Apr 20 20:46
porc/pineapple


it was obvious when insider trader started 6 threads with same message that the slave bots were being activated to spread this message

tried and trusted to stay on message whatever they are told.

its sad.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 20:51
Sensible criteria before softening lockdown now we have artificially suppressed the virus:

1. Make sure the NHS can cope with potential covid patients in either separate Nightingale hospitals or red zone in regular hospitals so normal medical services can resume with confidence.

2. Ensure supply of PPE can meet future demand in the NHS and care homes.

3. make a government department with a Minister of Shielding who has direct responsibility for older and other vulnerable people to focus on their protection as the virus spreads between the younger, fitter population.

Be honest with the public that fit 20 year old woman had a 1 in 10000 chance of dying and an older person with a bad heart condition has a 1 in 3 chance of dying. Then the policies and guidelines will work.
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 20:53
edy - excellent question and one that , if I answered it without consideration , may leave me open to even more excellent and difficult questions .
I honestly cannot fathom out how there is a significant rise in the UK death rate in a two week period where so-called COVID-19 deaths have levelled out to some extent . If these figures are correct , and I have absolutely zero evidence to prove or suggest otherwise , it is quite baffling . It is possible , but only a possibility , that there has been an increase in the number of people who have died because they have not sought immediate medical attention for a serious problem due to the perceived fear of going to hospital . But a 4-figure increase would suggest that there may be other factors involved , possibly surrounding the recording/reporting of deaths .
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 25 Apr 20 21:01
be honest with the public


lol

they are tories
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 25 Apr 20 21:02
oh yeah, so are you!
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Apr 20 21:04
We've had 20,000 but no no no that's not good enough

So the media are saying its double that because 20,000 just isn't scaring anyone

Bless em Laugh. We seem to be the only country using the death number in hospital as well, does that mean we are the champions of Covid 19?
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 21:06
But a 4-figure increase would suggest that there may be other factors involved , possibly surrounding the recording/reporting of deaths .

You think the authorities are making up deaths that never happened?
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Apr 20 21:07
I do love how everyone is indulging in a little "conspiracy theory" though, but soon as some of us go the other way we get ridiculed

The conspiracy seems to be we have way more deaths being hidden, hiding bodies?

Wouldn't neighbours start smelling the decomposing bodies by now? Ohh, nope that's conspiracy theory sonta
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 25 Apr 20 21:21
There's clearly something going on Donny. I follow a lot of people I don't agree with on Twitter and it's just too coincidental to see so many basically copying each other about the Swedish guy and the need to end lockdown now.

Some serious people are obviously losing money and need the worker bees back making them rich again. Nowadays you just need to engage your social media influencers and thousands of people think they've come to their own independent conclusion the next day. Simple.
By:
edy
When: 25 Apr 20 21:22
Astroturfing is awesome!
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 21:26
pp, what is your main criticism of how Sweden has handled this?
By:
Manoleeds
When: 25 Apr 20 21:28
The tests have been met https://thecritic.co.uk/its-hurting-but-its-just-not-working/
By:
Reynard
When: 25 Apr 20 21:28
edy • April 25, 2020 9:06 PM BST

You think the authorities are making up deaths that never happened?

I simply cannot see how that is possible , yet at the same time I cannot see how it is impossible . After all , they're just numbers innit Whoops
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 25 Apr 20 21:31
Sont - conspiracy theory for you. My mum's best mate died last week. Caught the virus, got worse so went to stay with her daughter (who caught it but recovered), went into hospital and finally on to a vent.

Was on the vent for about two weeks. Tried to take her off a few times but she was never strong enough and then finally deteriorated.

She smoked most of her life but otherwise no health problems. Was still working and should have been you g to Benidorm next month.

Her daughter was recently told that she died of heart failure. When she had no history of heart problems.

If you're asking about a conspiracy maybe look at the authorities facing a lot of criticism, now officially past the "good outcome " phase with more to come and are maybe doing what they can to keep the numbers down that can be linked back to their own decisions.
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Apr 20 21:33
She was old PP?? And she died of heart failure you just said so yourself in the post

The good outcome was the best possible outcome, we were always heading for 50,000+ overall, and that's over 18 months
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 25 Apr 20 21:34
My criticism if the Swedish guy is that he too confident (best scientists are aware of their own limitations and speak more in their own % chance of being right) and he was happy to make assertions but as we discussed yesterday maybe there wasn't the right amount of evidence behind them.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 25 Apr 20 21:37
Yep, early 70's. Fit and well though. Helped my mum out a lot, still working five days a week and very much enjoying her life.


There's not the remotest doubt that she'd still be here if she hadn't caught the virus. But that's not what the officials want us to believe.
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Apr 20 21:40
In fact I think this thing was here in late 2017 personally, if there is such a thing (IT ain't a virus its bacterial) because there's no way they would be reporting on it now if it just got here, they'd be hiding it like they did with the real bad flu season we had a few years ago, not one peep of that season from the media it was like it was invisible ffs

Its in the air if there is such a thing, its not something you can catch from someone else, it very much is airborne which means there's a life span for it.

I'm fit PP, do running daily and am getting pretty quick and fit/stamina, doesn't mean I can't die from something underlying I don't know about, only takes a bad turn out running one day and it could be lights out Sad

I've always had sinus problems, could be something more sinister that hasn't reared its ugly head yet?
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 21:57
sorry to here that pp.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 21:58
* hear
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 25 Apr 20 21:58
its clearly orchestrated in usa and uk.

russians need to flog their oil.





so sad to lose anybody, moreso when its a close friend.

swedish guy is a totem yet hes simply producing poor figures and trading on past reputation and goodwill.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 25 Apr 20 22:00
YHAL Sweden is so far so good. Time will tell.

That Neil Ferguson interview today was interesting as he seems convinced Sweden will suffer and he stood by his 0.9% mortality rate.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 25 Apr 20 22:02
in your brain it is, to most folk they have increased rate by not locking down.

when you have forgotten him he will be remembered for the extra deaths he brought to sweden.
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