Chit Chat
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I think the next step has to be for the Government to offer a vision of how we get out of this.
Obviousy, long-term, it's vaccination but that's too open-ended for the moment. People cannot cope with that, when the scientific consensus is we're 9-18 months away from something tested, safe and effective.
So it has to be testing.
Testing to see if you have ever had the virus and then confering a degree of freedom for those who HAVE had it and recovered and on the (tricky!) assumption that gives you immunty from ever getting it again.
You will have to carry papers (evoking visions of every authoritarian society you've ever imagined) or a writsband ....tattooo, hell, float with me on this but that is the only way forward I can see to restoring a degree of normality to society in the mid-term.
For now of course, it's all about staying in and hunkering down.
Obviousy, long-term, it's vaccination but that's too open-ended for the moment. People cannot cope with that, when the scientific consensus is we're 9-18 months away from something tested, safe and effective.
So it has to be testing.
Testing to see if you have ever had the virus and then confering a degree of freedom for those who HAVE had it and recovered and on the (tricky!) assumption that gives you immunty from ever getting it again.
You will have to carry papers (evoking visions of every authoritarian society you've ever imagined) or a writsband ....tattooo, hell, float with me on this but that is the only way forward I can see to restoring a degree of normality to society in the mid-term.
For now of course, it's all about staying in and hunkering down.
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Need to get everyone wearing a mask when out and about.
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Will social distancing evolve in to capitalist distancing ?
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People wont tolerate others being let out whilst they arent. Its a totally ridiculous idea.
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Italy are looking at the exit strategy
First when deaths are low the following will happen 1)Adults upto aged 30 years old will be allowed OUT 2)2 WEEKS LATER ADULTS AND CHILDREN upto age 40 will be allowed out 3)Further 2 weeks before adults upto 60 allowed out 4)Then another 6 weeks adult upto 70 will be allowed out Now the bad news anyone over 70 will remain in lockdown for another 12 weeks!!! Thus the death rate will be measured  |
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Did you just make that up ?
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Nope
Its been discussed The heathly out first  |
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Do you have evidence of it being discussed ?
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And what you have described is based entirely on age, not on the basis of health.
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Letting people out on the basis they have had the virus you are trying to shield them from IF they carry the right papers would be a totally and utterly unacceptable solution.
1. We do not live in a 'your papers please' society. 2. It encourages people to get the disease. 3. It would mean having to test 66,000,000 people and record and issue papers which would be gobble resources. Some people would get tested before others causing riots. It could work on a limited scale for NHS workers being allowed back to work but for the general public no chance. |
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you,d imagine schools will be 1st but will parents,teachers agree to be so called guinea,letting the so called covidiots out to fill pubs seems to miss the point
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This is Great Britain. We didnt leave the EU so we could follow the Italian style of policing or a German ID card scheme.
We have our own history of standing up for freedom and liberty and we should be showing the world how its done  |
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Imposing a lockdown was the easy bit, unwinding it is quite a different proposition.
No easy solution. |
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Some form of herd immunity, regardless of the term, is the outcome for every single place on the planet.
It's just we've shown we aren't adult enough now to deal with reality. The only difference for any of us is the angle of the infection curve...... |
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difference now been when herd immunity was 1st put forward discussed it was based on evidence saying young healthy people wernt effected and it still got ruled out,we now no that evidence is wrong so cant see that been the answer,here,usa,germany hospitals full of under 50,s no room to get the older people in
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Herd immunity could be the only answer if we cant get a vaccine is a short time as its impractical to keep lock down for a long period.
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Can you please define your understanding of herd immunity and how it would be achieved.
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BASICALLY SELLING yellow rubber bands on ebay for a tenner,well that will be it after the 1st week,
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handjob Handcock thinks he should be the pied piper of an exit strategy superman,immune but if he is immune he,s useless to a herd immunity plan,we want people who havnt had it to catch it of those who currently have it, he might as well be put him on lockdown because he,s of no help in either scenario
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Just Checking 05 Apr 20 12:59
It's just we've shown we aren't adult enough now to deal with reality. Im not sure theres enough evidence for that. Boris shut the pubs and cafes down on a Friday, we had one nice weekend to meet family and friends and and then he rolled the police out on Monday. Of course it was going to be difficult to persuade people to social distance but he hardly even tried. And it needs places like UK, US, scandinavia to take the lead on this sort of thing because very few others would. How many opportunities like this can our species afford to squander to show that we can cooperate in a crisis without a threat of violence or tyranny? We need the opportunity to learn and yes, maybe fck up a bit to start with, to get through these trial runs amicably before a much bigger crisis comes along. |
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Everything is possible
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Pleasegive ... what precisely about anything you said contradicts anything I said?
The idea it will just "go away" if we wish hard enough, and it's Boris's fault if it doesn't ... err... er.. |
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Letting people out on the basis they have had the virus you are trying to shield them from IF they carry the right papers would be a totally and utterly unacceptable solution.
1. We do not live in a 'your papers please' society. 2. It encourages people to get the disease. 3. It would mean having to test 66,000,000 people and record and issue papers which would be gobble resources. Some people would get tested before others causing riots. It could work on a limited scale for NHS workers being allowed back to work but for the general public no chance. Under any other circumstances I'd agree with you. I think it's scandalous the way the press in particular, given there is no standing parliament and the official opposition have been rudderless for months, have not raised civil liberties once as an issue. However, therein lies the answer to the first point you made - it appears that not only are we careering towrds a 'your papers please' society, the public mood is one of bovine acceptance of this, to the point where there are tales of the Police being overun by neighbours snitching on neighbours going ou more than once a day or for more than an hour. If the Government does crack down on the right of people to exercise outside of ther homes, due to the action of a tiny minority hell bent on that trip to Brockwell Park or to that barbeque, it'll be interesting to see if we bovinely accept it or if this is an infringement too far. I hadn't thought people would delibertley try to get the disease in this situation - if a test showed you've never had it then you'd be classed (in Hanx's fantasy world) the same as someone who'd had it and recovered. But - duck! run ! hide! - is this a bad thing in the long game? Now THERE's a debate to be had! Addressing your third point, I think one of the positive things to come from this crisis is the speed at which far-reaching decisions can be made. Witness the kitting out of Nightingale Hospitals in 9 days! Amazing what can be achieved when the focus is on clinical outcome rather than pushing papers around. The overarching point being that if we do get to 100,000 tests a day (yeah, okay....pause for laughter) then 66 million tests doesn't sound tht daunting. Yes it's a huge bureacratic exercise too but what's the alternative? I should say I'm not committed to any of this, just riffing some ideasm because my fundamental point is that we have GOT to be given a vision of a way out of all this that's plausible and time-codified. If we're not then how long do you think we can just drift on, staying indoors? |
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"Letting people out on the basis they have had the virus you are trying to shield them from IF they carry the right papers would be a totally and utterly unacceptable solution."
Nope, it's sensible. It makes totals sense. I'm a libertarian and I see it makes sense. If they want to push it to create further ID checks and controls, THEN I'll get very angry. But that was a Blair type thing, and we thankfuly have a liberal type PM. |
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EXIT STRATEGY
MY ARSE |
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So people like Boris and Hancock that were lax in their understanding of the virus and caught it get the privilege of getting their papers (or biometric tracking id card/phone) stamp whilst the rest of us who took precautions get confined to house arrest.
Give me a break. That is nonsense and the 50m plus people that probably have not had it yet know it is. |
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correct trader
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pity despite 24/7 questions not a journo savy enough to ask hancock about it
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Just Checking • April 5, 2020 6:58 PM BST
Pleasegive ... what precisely about anything you said contradicts anything I said? The idea it will just "go away" if we wish hard enough, and it's Boris's fault if it doesn't ... err... er.. Probably a misunderstanding on my part, apologies |
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Just seems a little weird that the CSO and the Health Sec that are giving out the advise seemingly both failed to follow it themselves.
We are now getting threatened with more and more draconian laws by these people that cannot even look after themselves. |
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No problem pleasegive :) And thanks for the apology.
I've been wrong before (not least that time in the car when I thought it was just a fart) :) |
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* Correction Chief Medical Officer.
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Then of course you have Scotland's Chief Medical Officer not following her own advise.
Do these people know something we don't? |
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Lord Sumption The real problem is that when human societies lose their freedom, it's not usually because tyrants have taken it away. It's usually because people willingly surrender their freedom in return for protection against some external threat. And the threat is usually a real threat but usually exaggerated. That's what I fear we are seeing now.
Wow  |
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Sumption knows
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Totally.
You have citizens complaining at other citizens sunbathing on an empty beach. |
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He went on..
The pressure on politicians has come from the public. They want action. They don't pause to ask whether the action will work. They don't ask themselves whether the cost will be worth paying. They want action anyway. And anyone who has studied history will recognise here the classic symptoms of collective hysteria. |
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Austria planning exit next
WEEK |
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Current restriction in Austria.
LOCKDOWN Yes. Certain towns under full quarantine. Internal movement banned, except to go to work, supermarkets, health facilities. Schools, universities, restaurants and non-essential shops closed. OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES Allowed but not in groups. Face masks mandatory in supermarkets. STATE OF EMERGENCY No BORDERS AND TRAVEL Open, but checks and screenings. INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS Restricted. Austrian Airlines grounded until April 19. EVENTS All events banned. Gatherings of more than five people forbidden. |
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Austria will enact a gradual easing of its coronavirus lockdown measures next week, which would make it the first EU country to take steps toward normalization, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz announced Monday.
At a government press conference, Kurz said the country could expect some sort of "resurrection after Easter," with non-essential shops allowed to reopen under strict hygiene measures starting on April 14. Wearing face masks in public — especially in supermarkets — has been made mandatory as of Monday. The measure is expected to be expanded to public transportation next week. From May 1, all stores, shopping malls and hairdressers will be allowed to reopen — but other services, as well as restaurants and hotels, must stay shuttered until mid-May, with a final decision to be taken in mid-April, he added. While exams will go ahead, classes in schools will remain suspended until at least mid-May. Events will be banned until at least the end of June. The government will still extend restrictions on movement until end of April, which means Austrians can only leave their homes to work, shop, help vulnerable people, or exercise. As of today, Austria has 12,008 confirmed cases, based on 111,296 tests. Health Minister Rudolf Anschober said that the country's doubling rate of confirmed cases fell from 3.6 days in mid-March to 16.5 days last week. |