ok pl there is no threat of violence , happy now ?

ok let’s get into trade talks

The next time you`re standing on the Kop End singing "The Fields Of Liverpool" lfc1971, just remember that it was originally an Irish rebel song about British tyranny. Your beloved stadium gets its name from a field in Ireland that was at the back of the ancestral home of an Irish migrant who became mayor of Liverpool in the 1870s. So forgive my reaction to your anti-Irish rhetoric and some of the other simplistic solutions being offered to the the Irish mess that is a result of British imperialism. Unfortunately we now live in a world where political leadership is driven by narcissism. Donald the Democrat who is now a Republican and Boris the pro-Europe advocate who is now a Brexiteer. They both are happy to change their minds and mess with ordinary peoples lives, depending on which way the wind blows most advantageously for them. At least with Maggie we all knew where we stood.

GFA is not holy writ.

It is a highly flawed accord, negotiated in a state of late-night frenzy.

It is not a set of eternal laws to live by dictated to Abraham from the Lord Thy God on Mount Sinai. Now 20 years old, the agreement could be regarded as having already served its purpose: getting the island’s excitable elements to stop killing each other. I’m not suggesting we chuck the thing. But that document was put together in different political circumstances: both nations entering into the agreement were members of the EU. Now one of them is leaving. If the document cannot accommodate this modification, something is wrong with the document, not with the historical change.

For people and paper alike, the key to survival is adaptation.

The GFA itself was full of dubious compromises and exceptions — the wholesale release of prisoners, including murderers who’d served mere months; the unprecedented granting to one nation of political say in the sovereign affairs of another — all in the service of expedience. If the GFA is possible, so are a few cameras between Newry and Dundalk.

Next: the policing of any national border involves entities on either side. On the British side of this one, Britain has been clear from the outset that the UK has no interest in heavy-handed customs or immigration enforcement (See Johnson's latest proposal). That is what is called ‘the UK’s business’, there being once again such a thing as ‘the UK’s business’ is what Brexit is all about.


Moreover, the EU’s professed helplessness in the face of its own bureaucracy is fake.

Eurocrats make all manner of exceptions to their own laws when it suits them. (For years, Brussels has turned a blind eye to Russia’s political manipulation of energy prices to different member states, in flagrant violation of EU law. Germany gets a sweetheart deal, so who cares if the Poles are screwed?)

Michel Barnier’s obduracy about the rules regarding external borders is a pose, just like his concern for ‘peace’. That guy doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about Northern Ireland.

Lastly: what is the unspeakable consequence of a ‘hard border’? Chris Patten likened tinkering with Northern Irish border arrangements to carrying ‘a can of petrol and a box of matches’. Who’d light the petrol? Supposedly, IRA retrogrades, with Sinn Fein cheering them on and the Taoiseach - never averse to a bit of Brit-bashing populist Republican dog-whistling, complicit with this (and it's 'right-wing violence / backlash' we're supposed to be afraid of in the UK since Brexit was voted for? Yeah r-i-i-i-ght!)

If one customs official checks a single boot for smuggled cigarettes, then it’s back to Tube station bombings in London!

Really?!

This whole conundrum is contrived. The Irish border is the EU's problem, since we don’t have one. With a nominal volume of trade, the border is sortable. For policy should be a slave to purpose, not the other way around.

When bureaucracy goes wrong — look at the Home Office and the Windrush affair — it is a slave to itself. Agreements, rules, laws — they’re all malleable, mere methods by which we accomplish our aims.

The UK’s aim is to escape the EU, and the EU’s aim is to stop us (or extract as much money out of us for the continuance of 'the project' and to warn others what'll happen to them if they get a bit uppity).

"The UK`s aim is to escape the EU"

Well it`s actually the aim of 17 million odd members of the electorate that want to leave the EU. A little less want to stay and a significant number either don`t give a toss one way or the other or were so ill-informed that they chose not vote. A lot of the problems in Northern Ireland resulted from a small majority forcing its will upon a large minority. Just because we`ve now moved a generation away from the troubles, people shouldn`t just think its forever locked in the past. The Republicans are still marching in their balaclavas and the Unionists are still banging their drums. Once a new generation comes along, they don`t understand how bad things really were, but the hatred still survives. So it doesn`t take much for the whole thing to kick off again. It`s funny that you`d mention Chris Patten considering what we see going on in Hong Kong at the moment.

Now everyone in the U.K. , has to try and understand that simple principle

And if they vote in a referendum , respect that please

Too difficult to understand ?

Don't see the point in the UK leaving now.

Boris tried to broker a better 'leaving deal' for the UK by playing a game of poker. But the politicians blocked him and tied him up like Houdini. If leaving without a deal is so abhorrent to most in the UK then maybe a new referendum will provide the result you seek? Was leaving with a deal one of the options in the referendum, or was it a straight in/out vote?

I voted to remain but if there’s another referendum i’ll certainly vote leave

Here it is ,

Do you want to leave the EU the cu , the sm , the ecj , and stop freedom of movement
or
Do you want to remain in the EU

Put it on the ballot , again

The leprechauns who smuggle red diesel will put a hex on you.

Didn't you get the current extension in order to ratify the WA?

You had the "hulk" posturing and bullshitin up to a couple of weeks ago roaring and shouting that he wasn't interested in negotiating and now at the last minute desperately trying to throw a shambles of a solution at it(as said above).

All a bit late,easy to play the blame game,not much left.

Hanx

Democracy is run by those that turn up

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
                               Winston Churchill



How long do you think we - the entirety of the UK-should stay in the thrall of men of violence

Well the gunmen are a direct product of imperialism. If Hitler had sent an army across the Channel in 1940, I`m sure he wouldn`t have been expecting a red carpet. Nobody wants anyone to be beholden to terrorism. The problem is that Boris "Dougal McGuire" Johnson can`t walk past a hornets nest without giving it a kick. He`s only interested in short term personal gain and doesn`t care about the consequences as long as he doesn`t have to suffer them.

Just over a third of the British electorate voted for Brexit, there was no stipulation about hard or soft. What difference does it make if it takes another year or even ten years to sort it out? It`s all very well for your average Brexiteer in Newcastle who`s far removed from the Irish border, but Northern Ireland didn`t vote for Brexit, nor did the Scots. The Irish government just want to stick by the terms of the GFA. It`s the only game in town and it`s working.

The EU trying to annexe a part of he UK for political ends and using their long time allies, the ROI, to help them.
When the GFA was agreed by the inept Blair nothing was put in place for this current situation.
Therefore after the integrity of the UK Union is recognised it would be time to revisit the Agreement and adjust accordingly.

Why not have a referendum in the 6 counties?

2 choices

1/ Remain in the EU while still being part of the UK with a natural sea border between Ireland and UK.

2/ Leave the EU customs union with the rest of the UK.

Jack pratsaw, don't create threads on somwething you are clueless about. HTH.

Why as someone who lives in Northern Ireland who didn"t vote for brexit help facilitate the UK to achieve it by allowing a border to be put up in my country, can"t the English get it through their thick heads its not our problem its yours.

I'm grand BTF,nice to see you posting,always a level headed view. Still enjoying my modest punting.

While N Ireland is part of the UK there will have to be a border , thats how it is

So according to you lfc i have no rights whatsoever i have to accept a border, no matter what harm and chaos that will ensue and you are wondering why the Republic are fighting tooth and nail against it.

N Ireland would effectively lose the ability to form its own trade policy
It would be dictated to by a foreign power , the EU

What Billion did the DUP get pa lapsy?
I know the NIA got a Billion.
I also know that one of the first projects to benefit from it was a SF project.

@mukdahan The UK government are fighting tooth and nail for a no hard border situation.
They have asked the EU and ROI to look at electronic options but they won't play ball.