Brunei implements stoning to death under new anti-LGBT laws

A criticism of Islamic practice is Islamaphobic (apparently).

The Labour Party's definition is:

“Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness.”

Is muslimness definitely a word?

Turns out it is, sounds more like an illness to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/labour-formally-adopts-definition-islamophobia

More than 750 British Muslim organisations, 80 academics and 50 MPs have backed the definition. Naz Shah, the Labour MP for Bradford West and a shadow minister for women and equalities, said all political parties should adopt the definition.

- Incredible they should come up with such a far reaching definition. Hence my question. If Brunei see stoning gays as 'Muslimness' then is criticism of such a practice Islamaphobic and perhaps illegal???

What a tangled web we weave...

I just read that definition twice. And I don't even understand it.

I've just read that definition backwards whilst standing on my head and it made perfect sense to me

ssenmilsum

he sayed on his heed



ssǝuɯᴉๅsnɯ

Islamic weight watchers club

Mo's Slimness

Are there regional divisions, like
Kuwait Watchers

Maybe something less harsh for lesbians . Qatar and Feather them , maybe

Are Strap ons included in the Stoning Laws ?

Just be thankful that the bbc have a gay liberation with beans on toast correspondent on hand to let us know what's happening...unlike the gay liberation riots in Paris who can't tell us

Good news for Quarry workers.

Good for quarry workes, bad for uphill gardeners.

BBC just reported that the sultan has a tiny kingdom. That would explain a lot.

https://youtu.be/nd5fNbLCiIg

Just imagine the state of things in 20 years in the UK ,Quite incredible tbh  ...

You can't tell em. Increasing rapidly here yet people simply hoping they'll tone it down. News flash, they can't tone it down, it's in the book.

The point is is it's not a "homophobic" or "anti gay" law, it's a range of very backward laws that are taken from religious text and put forward in the name of that religion and one of them targets gay people. That's the reality of it. People should be allowed to criticise all of this and point at the cause of it, if we can't (and many SJWs and the permanently outraged would have it that we can't) we might as well give up and welcome the world slipping backwards with freedom of speech more akin to 1984 and mandatory newspeak.

The manual is obsessed with sex , like a medieval version of Alex Comfort's publication . Not only their own sexual preferences , but also the preferences of others

I assume everyone's happy to ditch EU immigration in favour for more from Brunei and other commonwealth partners looking for a better life.

It is not one or the other.

Current it is both.

The majority of people in the country want neither.

But of course that does not suit big business that requires cheap labour.

But that is for another thread.

What is interesting in this case is the lack of outrage over it.

IT - I think it's because to criticise Brunei is have a pop at Islam. It's a tricky one for the SJWs.

Think there has been to be honest. Suppose it depends on what you read.

There were a couple of muppets higher up criticising Owen Jones silence. They clearly didn't bother to check before diving in as he's covered it a lot.

Sadly, as per inj hete some people are more interested in using it to score points rather than be actually outraged.

Yes to be fair Jones did comment...

Don't stay silent while Brunei imposes the death penalty for gay people. Protest *TOMORROW*, 12.30pm outside the Sultan of Brunei's pad in Ealing. Spread the word!

His focus seems to be on the Sultan rather than to address the underlying strong teachings that the laws originate from. Also the focus is on gay people rather than the other laws as well.

This is the elephant in the room that the left (and the arms sellers) seem to avoid discussing.

I checked Jones twitter feed before I posted. Maybe we can add "doesn't understand the flow of time" to the many things PoP doesn't understand .

I wonder why the MSM and Snowflake Army (such as Jones) are only caring about one single aspect and calling this an "anti gay" law not a "range of literal medieval islamic punishments", when the latter is actually far more correct?

Do they CARE if someone accused of "insulting the profit" or "adultery" is killed? It's only recently we've had the horrifying cases where women in the Maldives who have been raped have therefore "commited adultry" and were going to be lashed, until international pressure stopped it. Or the woman in Pakistan threatened with death for drinking from the wrong mug.

This is what we are dealing with there and the people horrified at this aren't the bad guys, I'll be damned if I'm going to be called "racist" for getting annoyed at this.

In fact the Maldives were going to stone a woman for adultery in 2015:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/maldives/11940419/Maldives-woman-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning-wins-reprieve.html

What is interesting in this case is the lack of outrage over it.
What would you like be done in this case?
I can assure you that if one day this creeps into Europe, it will not be because Islam is bad. it will be because some politician fkd you over.
I think we need to get over this mentality that we have to repair Islam or other countries. I couldn't care less about people being stoned in Brunei as long as it doesn't creep into Europe.
When one day this becomes a law in Europe, I can guarantee you will still be complaining about Islam, and not about the lawmakers. We all saw that during the refugee crisis. And look how that ended.

'Honour' killings are commonplace in the UK . They don't need to change our laws , just enact their own

So JC, when you wrote Nothing about this shocking step on the stalwart of LGBT rights Mr O Jones's twitter feed, what you really meant was several posts on this...

Got it. Thanks. Because only an idiot would check something, and then write the opposite knowing how easy it would be to prove wrong.

A simple typo. Must have been.

There are so many laws in Europe that need repairing, especially related to nationality and immmigration. Then there are the policies that aren't written in law but still happen every day, such as media coverage and PC bull. Then there are upcoming or recent laws like online censure and freedom of speech that need attention.

But hey, let's sort out Brunei's stoning law first...ffs. If they all stoned each other to death we will only have half a million people less in the world. But the threat to Europe will still be the same.

And obviously there is the biggest issue of getting people to follow our laws instead of their own. And we have so badly failed at that. Because we are more concerned about repairing their laws at the source rather then just kicking them out for not following ours.

The politicians will happily join you in a protest against Brunei, if that is what people would like to see, but how many politicians would join you in a protest to make the muslims follow Europe's law? None. And that is what p1sses me off because people don't put the questions to the politicians, but want a 1400 year old religion to correct its ways.

Thanks, that was all.

What is interesting in this case is the lack of outrage over it.

The beeb did have Peter Tatchell on the radio though.
Does he have a “batphone” linked to the BBC hierarchy, so he can be on the air in a moments notice
in case their is an LGBT outrage?

PP, do you agreed that Jones avoiding the reasons behind these laws by going after the Sultan himself? Do you think it is a good idea for the SJWs to avoid discussing Sharia Law?

'No' will mean 'yes'

No, what I mean PoP is he posted AFTER I posted. God I swear, pretty everything posted on here goes over your head and needs explained. It's quite amazing.

Is Jones avoiding anything? He's simply protesting about it in the best way he sees fit.

Whole lot of virtue signalling in all this with Clooney boycotting hotels etc but truth is it's almost hopeless when trying to protest against a despotic, unelected ruler who is personally richer than several decent sized countries. Not sure how you get him to stop in all honesty but people need to be seen to be doing something I suppose.

PorcupineorPineapple
04 Apr 19 19:50
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 7,616 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
Is Jones avoiding anything? He's simply protesting about it in the best way he sees fit.

Whole lot of virtue signalling in all this with Clooney boycotting hotels etc but truth is it's almost hopeless when trying to protest against a despotic, unelected ruler who is personally richer than several decent sized countries. Not sure how you get him to stop in all honesty but people need to be seen to be doing something I suppose.

^

This is the problem.

You are completely missing the underlying issue by claiming this is the Sultan.

Look at Iran, Look at Pakistan, Look at Isis and look at this case.

What is the underlying thing that is causing this action against theft, being gay, adultery or saying something wrong?

Is there anything in common between the laws coming out of Brunei and those against Asia Bibi in Pakistan? Can you really not see it?

JC - seeing as Jones was tweeting about while still in the month of March, maybe you need to explain this flow of time thing I'm missing.

Give it another Generation  Plenty of Stones being Thrown and Lifts to the top of tall Blocks .

Al-Hijra - Jihad by immigration. No need for bombs, the womb and the ballot box will do just fine.

If current trends continue (Pew research Institute) then the UK LGBT flying lessons should begin before this century is through.

PP avoids the elephant in room by blaming a despotic leader.

Pmsl Lux Not funny but well worded

Porky has problems dealing with reality and prefers to live in his own wee world.

My reality is fine thanks.

Jones wrote about this in March.

JC wrote in April that he hadn't.

I pointed out he had.

JC said he did so, but only after he'd posted.

He was and is wrong. You continuing to follow me slavishly doesn't change that simple fact.

Okay Basil.

PorcupineorPineapple
04 Apr 19 23:32
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 7,618 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
My reality is fine thanks.

Jones wrote about this in March.

JC wrote in April that he hadn't.

I pointed out he had.

JC said he did so, but only after he'd posted.

He was and is wrong. You continuing to follow me slavishly doesn't change that simple fact.


^

See what he does here.. Zero in a specific point he has a grievance about in order to deflect from addressing the elephant in the room. i.e. how have these new laws been justified?

You seem upset at me. "See what he does here". Didn't realise I was that important to forumite's lives. Honoured.

Lets clear up the justification from the OP...

'Brunei is introducing strict new Islamic laws that make gay sex an offence punishable by stoning to death.

The new measures, that come into force on Wednesday, also cover a range of other crimes including punishment for theft by amputation.'

aah, so that's it. You've seen the word Islamic and got a semi on.

To be fair the verse is pretty clear: - "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."




So, because one completely unaccountable despot decides to do this you think it somehow says something about all of the Islam faith?

Is it just one man or do a number of countries have Sharia law of some kind in place?

That verse is clearly plagiarised from the 18th chapter of Leviticus.

ok then, so some despotic rulers. Happy now? What's that maybe? Let's be generous and say 100 elitist nutjobs living in gilded palaces, travelling in armoured limos in each country.


How many is that in total? How many as a percentage of the global muslim population?





Would we better if we based laws on strict Bible teachings instead?

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

PP,

Is Pakistan run by a despotic ruler? Bangladesh? Iran? and dozens of other countries that have Sharia Law.

Which countries have laws based on strict bible teachings?

US of A

Nigeria has laws that are most pleasing to followers of either book.

Not sure what you're asking me to do? DEFEND the policies of Pakistan? Is that where you see this heading? There are some truly f*cking horrible, barbaric regimes out there. Some incredible human rights abuses going on. Unimaginable conditions that millions of people have to suffer.

Not sure that's even worth debating though. Is there anyone saying this is a good thing?






Saw an amusing thing on Frankie Boyle last night where one of the guests said she's invited on panel shows as "the anti-racist" but is always put up against someone who is essentially "pro-racism" in some sort of way. Weird how debate has got and she wondered if an anti-rape campaigner would be forced to debate against someone pro-rape at some point.

Just odd how everything has to be so adversarial.


So no. Brutalist, totalitarian regimes or those with death penalties, and medieval torture as means of punishment are definitely not something I'd advocate. M'kay?

Well your not a proper leftee then, certainly not according to the world view of IT or JC.

PP, some of the states are not totalitarian that have these laws. You do not see what they have in common. You do not want to see it.

Both male and female same-sex sexual activity is illegal in Nigeria. The maximum punishment in the twelve northern states that have adopted Shari'a law is death by stoning. That law applies to all Muslims and to those who have voluntarily consented to application of the Shari'a courts. In southern Nigeria and under the secular criminal laws of northern Nigeria, the maximum punishment for same-sex sexual activity is 14 years' imprisonment. The Same-Sex Marriage Prohibition Act criminalises all forms of same-sex unions and same-sex marriage throughout the country.


So stoning in the sharia states, a 14 year stretch in the christian ones. Progress?

So what if they are muslim countries? What about all the countries with lots of muslims or who have muslims in high office in who don't have these laws? Are you ignoring those from your sample? Do you not want to see those?

Only Turkey and a few central Asian states are Muslim majority and secular. Sharia Law plays a role to a lesser or greater extent in the others.

Again, are you asking me to defend these regimes which treat their people appalingly?

PorcupineorPineapple • April 5, 2019 10:54 AM BST
Again, are you asking me to defend these regimes which treat their people appalingly?

You seem to be very comfortable defending an ideology that treats all people appallingly so you clearly have an empathy for defending the indefensible .

This is what those on the new left fail to grasp Reynard. Muslims are the primary victims of this stuff and nonsense and by refusing to criticise Islam they effectively collude in their worldwide subjugation.

What ideology am I defending?

You are talking about despots and dictators rather than the ideology behind the laws.

By heaping all the blame on one 'despotic leader' you choose to deflect attention away from the ideology that is the basis for this new legislation .
The sultana called for "stronger islamic teachings" . The clue is in the word 'islamic' . It is islam that is the problem here , as usual , not the individual who wishes to implement this barbaric punishment .

May I ask what the problem is, if countries in the middle east or South Asa fully implemented Sharia law? I mean how does it affect your lives?

detraveller - 50 years ago it probably wouldn't have mattered but now we are willfully importing people from such countries and they would appear to wish to implement these 'laws' wherever they settle . It is becoming our problem .

A tendency toward the unitary ethics of the west as opposed to the dualism of Islam would surely benefit all humankind?

I fully understand that.

But I don't understand the obsession with trying to get rid of the laws at the roots. Its not our religion and those aren't our countries. But hey lets fix them. But no one would bother ask the politician he voted for, why people not following our laws aren't being punished. And thats my point. Why fix something that is clearly not in our control when we can easily protect ourselves from it at home just be implementing existing laws? Protecting ourselves is our problem, not repairing Sharia law. I am pretty sure i'll be called a muslim apologist or  aleftie or a liberal but you guys are only wasting your time trying to educate people about Islam.

There was a guy called moisok, I think he recently got banned. During thr refugee crisis, he had a collection of verses from the koran, posting them regularly here justifying why the migrants were coming. I kept telling him, working at the border at the time, that the police were ordered to bring people safely to the registration centers. I was a muslim apologist the whole time. Everyone was blinded by those verses while the govts conveniently imported everyone they wanted to. No one asked the govt any question. But everyone wanted islamic teachings to be changed. Look how that ended.

any chance of us implementing this for politicians who lie through their gussets?

We can no longer easily protect ourselves. That's the problem. Our institutions, establishment, Police, media and culture have been absolutely infested by this strain of culturally marxist, intersectional wrongthink to the point where anything other than the advocation of open borders is considered extremist and far right etc.

Exactly Lux. That IS the problem. The problem is at home, not in Brunei. When stoning becomes legal in Europe, it will not be Islam but one of your own lawmakers fkin you over.

Brunel has lost all the trade from Gay Tourists, is that wise?????

Well, two aspects and personally i'd give them equal billing. I think the only way to effectively tackle the problem is holistically. By highlighting cases such as this (intersectional top trumps) that genuinely provoke cognitive dissonance on the left.

Hammer away for long enough and amidst much brain smoke I would hope,eventually, that something has to give.

Poor Feeble  brains reading  Books and believing in them,the same  as a child does in fairy tales ,that is the Problem ,Has been for centuries ,,

If they do not read the Books they are sent to Listen to people who know the Books inside out .

There's the proof then, they have feebler brains than the bible readers.

I think some people just see the word Islamic and think it's a simple badge that applies to everyone who identifies as muslim.

If you asked 100 people who identified as Christian if they believed in god and agreed with the teachings of the bible in general you'd get a big number saying yes. If you then picked out a few passages such as our old friend Levi above then that number would probably shrink to next to none.

The ideology behind these islamic laws is a warped interpretation of the koran where certain passages have been cherry picked out, that's all. You could take other passages from the book and have a complete different set of laws based on them. Same as you could if you based your laws on the bible.

But to then use this as a crutch to say this is muslim teaching, therefore all muslims think like this is where the argument falls off a cliff. Some people do, I'm sure. But then I'm sure you could find a good few christians who'd like to outlaw homosexuality and wouldn't mind the harshest penalties to deter it. Doesn't make all catholics bad.


Reminds me of the daft onion yesterday (forget who) who used your kind and generalise in the same sentence. It's just the most simplistic of thinking. Try to bunch millions upon millions of people into one easily identifiable group that share the same characteristics and beliefs. Because it's easier to hate all muslims that way and justify why they shouldn't be allowed here. There's so much of this kind of thinking. You've got the balloon on the Man U thread up in arms about the UAE being responsible for atrocities in Yemen, purely because of the Man City connection. You have brexiters suddenly taking an interest in EU laws and opining that they're bad purely because they need a reason to criticise the EU. Some people only get interested in issues if they can use them as a stick to beat their favourite bete noire.

I said " BOOKS" mouse Covering all books

Bible and other Manuscripts Also full of Shyte IMVHO.

PP,

Dozens of countries around the world use (your words) 'islamic laws is a warped interpretation of the koran'.

How many countries have their legal system based on Levi?

I would guess all of them. I think only Saudia has the full Sharia implementation. The rest derive their laws from Islamic principles. What that means is that they allow modern law to take over as long as it doesnt contradict basic islamic teachings. So same sex marriage wont ever be allowed in a muslim country. The punishment for it is up to debate but the act itself will remain haram. Or else it ain't a muslim country. At least thats my understanding.

I think multiple mariages is a similar case where the second marriage cannot be deemed illegal because forbiding two wives means you are basically stopping people from practicing something that Islam clearly allows.

Now i don't disagree with you if you tell me that is stone age stuff. But you need to understand the infrastructure and lifestyle of countries that follow these. Good luck changing that. You are only wasting your time.

It is not for UK to tell them what laws they should have but as we provide a regiment of soldiers, probably some finance and trade, we should certainly remove all of those.

what a blinding Law... get this in place in Yorkshire and we could be stoning all these Filthy grooming gangs immediately

Have to Wonder what Percentage of British followers find the Brunei Route Acceptable ?

PP - Hating muslims and hating islam are two entirely different things . You are really a 'daft onion' to quote your phrase

IT - again, I'm not sure if you're expecting me to defend a country using ancient fairy tales to create laws to subjugate its people. It's pretty crap and stupid obviously.

Labour urges action over Brunei

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47840686

Will they be Questioning the actions of Certain People in this Country ?

thats the law in brunei. so be it .  well done to the rulers..

Will they be Questioning the actions of Certain People in this Country ?


I think Sarah Champion has tried that particular tactic. Didn't end so well.

Staggers me how these Labour types manage to find the balls to get out of bed in the morning.

I don't live far from Brighton...be a bit of a panic if they introduce stoning for gays there

It is a barbaric punishment, hope there are strong sanctions against Brunel for this, they deserve it.

Other Islamic countries do not stone gays so neither should they, no excuse.

I've seen the beach at Brighton . Allah would appear to have deposited plenty of projectiles there in anticipation

Reynard