Darkest Hour....

Troll-o-meter twitches straight past 10 and hits the pin at the end of the red zone.

What the **** are you on about j.c?

The key point is that he hated Germany rather than hating Britain.

Go on Acey ,on what grounds,Gallipoli,...?

Mouse has it, would his detractors feel happier if we'd had a paragon of virtue in charge and lost to Hitler? Probably not.

Defeating Hitler may just have been delaying the inevitable

Was not the guy pushed into a position no one else wanted?....hand painter beats house painter

"We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again"

we should have suck with Chamberlain

Hitler broke that I believe Baphornet?

When Churchill made that speech we had just suffered a terrible defeat in France.

People of this country were genuinly afraid the Germans would invade us at any moment.



Any way we won in trhe end. Would people have preferred it is Germany won WW11.


Maybe people so???????????????????????????????????????

do

Would people have preferred it is Germany won WW11.

I don't see how anyone could begrudge them if they've lost all the previous 10

They've more than made up for losing the 2 WWs in world cups.

It was Chamberlain who declared war on Germany...in response to Germany's

invasion of Poland.

He stepped down in May 1940 after our armies very poor showing in Norway, where we were forced

to withdraw by the Germans.

I think Churchill's strength was always his rhetoric, we will fight them on the beaches etc

which was needed at the time

As for his military decisions, questionable, Italy?????, seemed more of Gallipoli

from WW1, not successful.

Perhaps Churchill’s only fault was that
he was too nice

nevertheless how  glorious Churchill was , and how glorious Britain
the greatest man of the 20c , the greatest country in history

The criticism of Chamberlain comes in 1938.

Hitler demanded the Sudetenland In Czech0slovakia, German speaking.

Should Chamberlain have denied Hitler and risked starting war at the time

that is the question?

Chamberlain accepted an agreement from Hitler this would be his last territorial claim in Europe.

Hitler broke this a few months later when he annexed all of Czech0slovakia.


Chamberlain did declare war on Hitler when he invaded Poland in 1939.

But he did gain a year for us to prepare for war, we at least strengthened our Air Force.

Without the Munich agreement the war would have started a year earlier.

Your faith is touching lfc1971?????????????????????

Chamberlain was a 1st class idiot

the greatest country in history

It was USA last year now GB this year. I wonder who it will be next year

Chamberlain was an honourable but naive man but he certainly was not an idiot.

He thought he was doing best for world peace and didn`t realise he was being played by Hitler.

It was very sad that he died of cancer at a time when Germany had conquered Western Europe and he must have went to his grave a tortured soul. Very sad.

He had no luck in life at all. Here he is pictured with his Ante Post voucher for Presenting Percy @ 33/1 to win the 2019 Cheltenham Gold Cup.

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Britain & France had come close to declaring war on Germany in 1938, over it - Germanys menacing of Czechoslovakia. Chamberlain gave Germany the Sudetenland which left the rest of Czechoslovakia defenceless. War between Britain & Germany was inevitable before Chamberlain went to Munich, & he trusted the pariah of the 20th Century even though Hitler was firing up his tanks towards the Czechs. This is what Churchill said in the Commons when Chamberlain came back: “We have sustained a total and unmitigated defeat… The German dictator, instead of snatching the victuals from the table, has been content to have them served to him course by course.” He got shouted down for saying it. Six months later Hitler waltzed into Prague. Do you know what Chamberlain said about the conflict brewing between Germany & the Czechs? "A quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing" It was a betrayal of Czechoslovakia so try telling them Chamberlain was "naive" He was an inexusable idiot!

oh & Chamberlain was forced to resign after his pal invaded Norway

No, he wasn`t an idiot, he was naive. He believed Hitler in Munich when he said that Germany had no more territorial demands in Europe after getting the Sudetenland at the conference table. Peace in our time he declared and he naively believed it.

Yes, the Czechs were betrayed but Poland more so. Britain and France declared war on Germany following the invasion of Poland but done nothing and left the Poles to their own fate with Hitler and Stalin.

He had no luck in life at all. Here he is pictured with his Ante Post voucher for Presenting Percy @ 33/1 to win the 2019 Cheltenham Gold Cup.

mightymac

Ante Post vouchers were big back then gerry as shown in picture

How big was the cheques when they won the pools?

spot the ball back in them times mouse haway man

Ball was stuck in the mud somewhere.

Hitlers otha was in the Albert Hall

Albert Hall wasn't on the coupon so the crafty newspaper men retained all steaks.

The thing was Sudetenland was predominantly German speaking....

What Hitler was asking was for a reunification of all Germans, which was all he had asked up to that point.

Was it worth going to war over this?

It was only when Hitler invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia, that Hitler had now invaded a country of

non Germans.

The next time he did this in Poland, we declared war. Although we did not do much.

We were under prepared for war as Churchill had been warning us for years

In the 1930's we had still not forgotten WW1, we tried to do anything to avoid another war.

This played into Hitler's hands.


Germany had been unfairly blamed and punished for WW1. It was not just them

Hitler told the Germans he would put this right and he kept his word.

Unfortunately Hitler did not know when to stop and went beyond this.. hence WW11

Like gambling everything is easier in hindsight...

Chamberlain trusted Hitler and lost.

Churchill never trusted Hitler and had been telling us for years to re arm, he was of course proved right.

nice cherry picking but it doesn't hide the fact that Chamberlain was an idiot; you can deny it all you want but history knows the truth. How many warnings did he want or need? He was the Grayling of the day; a 1st class nincompoop.

so one was correct & the other was an idiot. Case closed

Theresa May is the modern day Chamberlain. Getting played and shafted by the bigwigs of Europe. Difference is that she is an idiot.

Indeed, I thought the same when I read baph's quote above.



This is what Churchill said in the Commons when Chamberlain came back: “We have sustained a total and unmitigated defeat… The German dictator, instead of snatching the victuals from the table, has been content to have them served to him course by course.”

If there were torture in Chamberlain's soul when he died, it might have been because he assumed he would soon be returning to Number Ten after Churchill had brought the country to ruin.

The Norway debacle which caused Chamberlain to resign was at least as much the fault of Churchill himself, who was First Lord of the Admiralty at the time: a fact the loyal Churchill repeatedly emphasized in the Commons debate. With that in mind, I still find it hard to understand how Chamberlain came to resign, never mind why Chamberlain was content for Churchill to be his successor. Unless, as I say, Chamberlain assumed it would result in a path back to power for him later, with a renewed mandate.

Just my opinion.

If there's a WW3, the only things to survive will be cockroaches and Chris Grayling.

If there's a WW3, the only things to survive will be cockroaches and Chris Grayling.

Not forgetting Jeremy Corbyn and Dianne Abbott. How they've survived so far, G0d only knows... and he's scratching his head

God must also be scratching his head how he's survived so long himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LoFLS4wnKE

In 1939 the Soviets invaded Finland,they 'won' but sustained huge casualties, some experts
think their poor showing during this campaign convinced Adolf that invading Russia would be
easy.

In many ways it was the same story when Germany invaded Russia. Both sides were taking massive casualties but in the end the Germans were running out of men whereas the Russians could replace theirs.

You are right Sica Dan….Russia looked bad against Finland

One reason was the German secret service had managed to convince Stalin that his senior Army Officers

were plotting against him, Stalin had them all shot, Stalin was always very paranoiac

Lucky he did not shoot Zhukov, a top class commander, not far off Manstein, they clashed in Russia


General Winter helped Russia out a bit, Hitler did not learn from Napoleon, just as well for us.

Stalin strategy - I have more men than the enemy have bullets.

If he was here on BF - would be one of those claiming he could make it pay if only he had a bigger bank!

Well Stalin did win in the end..

I am not sure I would say the same for those on here that think a bigger bank is the answer

Don't forget the T34 tank...that gave the Germans a shock, they thought they had the last words in tanks.

i could easily have put the nutcase, or the rest of the Cabinet in fact with Chamberlain as all idiots; but as Graylings face annoys me more than anyone at the moment; i used him. Apologies to all who now misguidedly think i adore the nutcase

I think the only time Stalin really had what you could call a strategy was in 1939-41, when he and his Nazi allies were divvying up the former Austro-Hungarian empire between them.

This is an interesting sound recording of Hitler`s meeting with Mannerheim in Finland in June 1942.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8WHyeyItm8

Well worth a listen for anybody interested in WWII who hasn`t heard it before.

Apparently when Stalin's buddy and comrade in carving up eastern Europe, Hitler, turned on him and invaded Russia, despite the fact he'd had warnings this was going to happen from Britain (who knew it was coming) and even his own intelligence services who had many pointers to it, he was so shocked he went into a sort of catatonic vodka filled mental breakdown for a few days. Communist Russia. A great bunch of guys.

Stalin was ruling his empire from the dining room of a house in ****evo at the time. He hardly left the room anyway, even sleeping on the sofa. When Zhukov rang him at 3.40 am on 22nd June 1941 to tell him of the German invasion, all he got in reply was heavy breathing. Stalin didn't actually emerge from the room until 3rd July, eleven days later.

*Kun tsevo

Whatever you have against this sevo guy, I think that's a bit harsh!

I was very careful where I split Кун цево / Kun tsevo.