Populism

Has become interchangeable with bigotism in recent years for some reason.

yes a bad choice of word to describe it

Populism refers to popular choices that lead to terrible outcomes.  It would be popular if you got paid a full wage for working 2 days a week.  It would be popular if you splashed out on a flash car and a holiday when you can't afford and it puts you in debt.  It would be popular with teenagers if they got to play games at school.

And 'progressive' means handing over what you've worked for to anyone who wants to take it.

It's a bury your head in the sand, jam today politics that leads to disaster, which is seen at it's most extreme in Venezuala.

BREXIT was a populist vote.  We'll get our country back, we'll stop immigration, we'll make our own decisions and we won't be contributing to the EU.  All sounds marvellous.

If remain had won would that have been a populist vote ?

Of course not.

Populist = anti establishment.

We were very naughty for voting to leave. We didn't listen, didn't do as we were told.. God forbid we do not agree with our Lords and Masters.

Now apparently we're about to fall off a cliff, enter the abyss and suffer catastrophe. All expressons used today and for the last 6 months.

Somebody hold me, I'm scared!

You see it could be seen as a bury your head in the sand approach to continue with freedom of movement and mass immigration for example

Feb 20, 2019 -- 9:46AM, Injera wrote:

Populist = anti establishment.We were very naughty for voting to leave. We didn't listen, didn't do as we were told.. God forbid we do not agree with our Lords and Masters.Now apparently we're about to fall off a cliff, enter the abyss and suffer catastrophe. All expressons used today and for the last 6 months.Somebody hold me, I'm scared!

= Were conned by billionaires now looking to exploit you to the maximum.

The people of this country were never asked did they want or agree with mass immigration into Britain over these last decades
If they had been asked , and they had said no
Would that have been populist ?
Well no one was asked of course

Well it's not a good idea generally to ask the public on things they are ill informed to judge on. Believe the phrase is turkeys voting for Christmas.

You we n88 thinks he was clever enough not to be conned , but Brexiteers were not as clever as him
Silly boy

Why he should think he is particularly clever I don’t know

Well when you say Brexit will be x, y, z and it isn't questions have to be asked. They will give us what they want they said, something repeatedly pointed out as fantasy at the time.

They want to say 'I told you so' as they starve to death with us lfc, you'd think they'd be gone already.

And when the people backing Brexit are pretty much entirely either looking to exploit the effects of Brexit on the UK or funded by regimes hostile towards the UK you have to question why these people would be encouraging something that would be beneficial to the UK.

n88uk
20 Feb 19 15:53

Well it's not a good idea generally to ask the public on things they are ill informed to judge on.

- Hello Mr Verhofstadt. Fancy you being here!

n88 I don’t believe you or anyone else can see into the future   , people voted Brexit because of problems that exist now
You may be happy to continue that path , i think that’s foolish
Just my opinion ,

Ah yes the defence of we don't know what the future holds, just have to go with it. Ignore all the predictions as project fear. Always the way sound business is run, ignore all advice and take a massive stab in the dark that it will all work out somehow even though you have no reason to believe it will.

People voted Brexit (ignoring the extremists) as they think it will solve their problems, except it won't as the EU aren't the problem.

n88 the future is always a stab in the dark   , staying in or leaving
But it’s a matter of judgement based on how things are and have been and most people are not happy now or with the general direction of travel over these years in the EU
That’s why they voted leave.  Because of the past , that real that’s their experience
That’s how it is

Goes without saying that populist is anti establishment.  It's the school drop out who thought he knew better than his parents and teachers and is now stocking shelves or  flipping burgers in McDonalds

I don't think Alan Sugar did well at school, if you just want extreme examples.

It's a badge of honour for some people to be a rebel comrade and think things are simple.  Intellectually it's all they can manage

I'm wondering how this country is in such a mess with all them intellectuals about.

I hardly think Alan Sugar was a populist as a youngster, working hard and grafting.

At least someone working in a supermarkets or restaurant is doing a good and useful job, unlike the thousands of layabouts who go to university every year , no I don’t really want to listen to them any more than the young person who leaves school at 16 and starts work
I’m now that impressed by our undergraduates , sorry

Anyone here aspire to be a miserable c**t with loads of money like Sugar?

well they could be just a miserable **** like yourself mouse , without a load of money ?

To make money for yourself and fund the health service and the like, for most normal people you have to make unpopular choices.

No one else could ever be that miserable.

Don’t listen to Alan sugar or any other of these great talents
sooner or later you have to tell them to **** off

well they could be just a miserable **** like yourself mouse , without a load of money ?

BRILLIANT

poor bait

Clydebank you don’t understand , without North Sea oil over the last 40 years we couldn’t have funded the NHS
We can’t support millions more coming into Britain and using the NHS

moan moan moan, do feck all, whinge, cast envious eye on someone who has earned loads of money and call them a t0ssp0t, sit back and expect them to feed you, moan, whinge, do feck all, sing your own ideological virtues, moan, do feck all.

I’m not moaning it won’t affect me , I have so much money I don’t know what to do with all the money

How exactly did you find yourself in a situation where you have more money than you know what to do with?

We got ourselves into huge debt because of two World Wars lfc.  Arguably immigrants help fund the NHS more than they take from it.  Neither you nor I, nor anyone else on thsi forum knows the answer to it.  Probably no one does.

lfc that wasn't aimed at you, it's just a general observation of the public, although it seems you recognise yourself in that

The UK Establishment are dangerous and extreme.

Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya
23k Jihadis on the loose
Many of them wanted to join the Euro
Most of them want a Federal Europe
They held/hold the coats of the rape gangs
They gave Savile a Knightood
Leader of Her majesty's opposition thinks Venezuela is the blueprint

Populism doesn't seem so bad after all.

We going off topic a little bit , I know you woukd like to believe that immigration funds the nhs , because that’s what you have been told
But I am afraid that is impossible , because the nhs relies on a lifetime of work
And they’ve maybe just arrived yesterday
Su please don’t believe in fairy tales

Safest to believe what you have been told by the populists.

Saville was a populist ****.

He done the pop charts, so yes.

The central tenet of populism then is: Don't believe anything you are told unless it is us populists that are telling you it.

Populists are full of rubbish 100% of the time.  The establishment is often full of rubbish because often they succumb to populism.  It's a sad state of affairs, but you have to talk a lot of BS to get elected

No , you have to distinguish the person who is an expert , such as an electrician or a plumber or a surgeon
From someone who is not such as a politician or an economist

Most people are hardwired to vote for promises of riches ahead of objectivity

You see there are professions in which the experts are experts , and professions in which the experts are not experts

No that’s wrong Clydebank , people vote every 5 years and if the government does a  reasonable job they will have a good chance to be re-elected

So Donald could quite likely be more of an expert on climate change than the scientists who specialise in that sphere.

no , scientists tend to be experts ( although it depends somewhat on their field of expertise
politicians are not experts

But it is the so-called populists who are more likely to rubbish evidence provided by the scientists.

It’s up to the politician to decide what is best to do with the information
With climate change it would be best to do nothing , and tackle any problems that might arise as we go along
Just my opinion

People wer saying Hugo Chavez was doing a wonderful job after five years, notably Corbyn and McDonnell.  It takes way more than 5 years for daft decisions to unravel.  You can't live of savings forever.

A politician has to have judgement , scientists often have very poor judgement

You can have a sharp  intelligence , but that intelligence may not be very deep
Don’t confuse one with the other
That’s where  scientists often go wrong , their intelligence is sharp

But not deep

or populist polcies.  The sh1t hits the fan in the end.  Quite who is to blame for current cut backs and the generational divide, is open to debate, but overspending and a lack of housebuilding by the Labour Party are integral.

"Arguably immigrants help fund the NHS more than they take from it"

Yet having to come up with a £65 fee to stay in the country was seemingly "a financial barrier to them staying"...........

Heard a BBC guy today or yesterday without breaking step or even pausing for thought refer to the ERG group in the Tory party as "Hard Right".

HARD RIGHT? This is the sort of casual insult the BBC use towards brexiteers. People who want to leave the EU are all of course racists and fascists.

Don't like the EU = Fascist. We get it, BBC...

I call them Moggies.

If only he was called Jacob Reee Mugg, JK Rowling might be complaining about the nickname given to his entourage.

"Arguably immigrants help fund the NHS more than they take from it"

Yet having to come up with a £65 fee to stay in the country was seemingly "a financial barrier to them staying"...........

...............

The point is we don't know.  The argument has always been that immigrants contribute to the economy more than they take from it, whilst the press and social media publish stories that point an alternative picture.  I have my doubts personally, because I doubt there is any decent research on the subject, and I suspect the line is based on dubious figures and doesn't include all the relevant costs.  But I'd be supremely confident that EU immigration's net positive or negative contribution per head is higher than non EU immigration, so what little effect it has on immigration is not on the immigration that costs the UK..  But again there is no research I'm aware of, and it's sensitive information that is probably against "progressive" racial profiling.

As n88uk has said it's not a good idea to ask the public to decide on something they have almost no idea on.

If you want some research then ask Jacob "Cheap Shoes" Mogg to shove his cheap boot up the cheap arses of his research group in a bid to induce said body to actually carry out some research.

Hi....James !