Andy Murray - Greatest British Sportsman of all Time

greatest british sportsman of all time is Eric Liddell. so good they made a film about him.
i don't think he would have liked me much but i have major respect for his extraordinary life.

In that case, Murray won't be the greatest Scottish player, let alone greatest British.

why would you not consider McEnroe a tennis great lfc he certainly is.
funny you say Connor's was past his peak yet he won 3 of his 8 slams when over 30 plus made 3 french open finals.
jimmy at the french was a bit like murray in australia. lots of finals just couldn't get the win

Jan 14, 2019 -- 1:53PM, detraveller wrote:

In that case, Murray won't be the greatest Scottish player, let alone greatest British.

you think liddell played tennis
he probably would have been decent at it

Oh yes I do consider McEnroe a tennis great , to my mind  the greatest

Jan 14, 2019 -- 1:54PM, northanlite wrote:

Jan 14, 2019 --  1:53PM, detraveller wrote:In that case, Murray won't be the greatest Scottish player, let alone greatest British.you think liddell played tennis he probably would have been decent at it

No i didn't say Lidell was a tennis player.

you wrote player so i assumed. he was a rugby player, several caps for Scotland.

Chris Froome is purely a stamina based fitness athlete, it can't be compared to a skill sport like Tennis, the likes of Froome have succeded in large parts thanks to the huge amounts of money Sky have invested, other riders and teams are handicapped, it's a bit like F1, Hamilton is a a top driver but he mostly competes against hopeless back markers in poorer financed teams. Then there are question marks over Froome who many believe to have been doping, another Cyclists who suffers from Asthma and gets to use TUE's.

Think sportsman from skill sports and those from endurance sports should be seperated.

...which again brings me to my original point. If you have to divide the sports into categories, and make other similar excuses to help Murray claim the greatest title, surely he can't be the greatest?

For instance if Fed, Nadal or Djokovic were Britsh, we wouldn't be debating if darts is a sports or not, if skill sports should be separated from endurance sports, etc etc.

Also, let's not forget it was BBC that started this a few days ago.

Judging from this forum, almost everything BBC says falls under some peculiar agenda and nonsense but for some reason you all took this seriously

it is a pointless exercise. how do compare a darts thrower to a boxer or a runner to a snooker player?
they are good at what they do and all require different but often similar attributes

Isnt all that matters now the fact that Kyle Edmund is Scottish number 1 tennis player?
Now we shall see how strong this Scottish affinity to the game of tennis is

The way the Scots go off about andy you'd think any of em ever played the fookin game.

Be another game they dont play....

Jan 14, 2019 -- 11:31AM, detraveller wrote:

I'm not good at understanding these one-liners. Are you saying you get hard when with your woman? or you have a hard time getting hard when with your woman? Hope my question makes sense.

Haha, an example of German humour, aye?  Are you Stefan Raab in disguise?

kyle Edmund is fae Yorkshire insn't he? Cam Norrie is a Scot, he lost too

Jan 14, 2019 -- 1:47PM, northanlite wrote:

greatest british sportsman of all time is Eric Liddell. so good they made a film about him.i don't think he would have liked me much but i have major respect for his extraordinary life.

Absolutely top shout, NL.

I knew the name of the man and the film but knew nothing of either, apart from the latter's theme tune and that part of it was filmed on St Andrews beach.  I've just sent away for the DVD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Liddell

Btw, my first choice would have been Daley Thompson.

Mentioning Murray in the same breath as McEnroe is laughable.
Mac spent 170 weeks as World Number 1 and went a long way to finishing the career of one of the genuine GOAT contenders, Borg.

I didn’t say anything different did i?
And I did say that , for me , McEnroe was the greatest of all

I don't think McEnroe would have ever of beaten today's top 3, he was of his time though, Sampras beat him comfrotable the 3 times they played when he was a teenager.

Sampras was a different era to McEnroe
You have to look at McEnroe at his peak , when he lost that epic Wimbledon final match to Borg
And then the following year when he beat Borg in the final

You see the type of player McEnroe was is slightly more difficult to be than a Borg or a sympras
It’s like comparing a player such as Higgins to Davis , it’s slightly more difficult to be huggins
Or a mcilroy  to a Faldo , it’s a little more difficult to be mcilroy

That’s what I meant in likening Murrys game to McEnroe , there are similarities
It’s more difficult to be a murry than a Bjorivich..

spellings gone to pot sorry

He certainly won't be ranked in the top 5 by tennis experts.

He's LFC pick as the greatest of all time simply because he competed in his era,just like nearly everyone
named by LFC in this thread---Alex Higgins,John Curry,Torvill and Dean,Coe,Ovett,Cram,Mike Hailwood,Davis,Stewart,etc.


There is absolute no logical reason to regard McEnroe as the greatest of all time--probably wasn't the best of his era(he had a poor record against Lendl)

That's McEnroe  (He certainly won't be ranked in the top 5 by tennis experts.)


BTW--he's one of my favourite sportsman but I'm realistic when it comes to his place in History

JML  I have just said that I think McIlroy is a greater golfer than Faldo
You see I also think Claude Monet was a genius and a better artist than anyone alive today
I wasn’t alive in 1874

who are all these people and what do they have to do with Brexit?

Will McIlroy win more than Faldo , I don’t know
But he has won , yes it’s important to win , but he’s won enough

That’s s little history lesson for you there jml

History Lesson???? I could have guessed you weren't alive in 1874.

Well done, then what are you on about , McIlroy is playing now Faldo isn’t , Monet is history
Ah so what

You didn't actually say that Mcillroy was a better golfer than Faldo.


What you said was You see the type of player McEnroe was is slightly more difficult to be than a Borg or a sympras
It’s like comparing a player such as Higgins to Davis , it’s slightly more difficult to be huggins
Or a mcilroy  to a Faldo , it’s a little more difficult to be mcilroy.



Harder to be A than B ??? Just more of your mindless ramblings

I don't know JML, he will certainly be ranked top 10 by most and a few will have him top 5.
He won 7 majors from 1979-84, at a time that (in keeping with a few of the top boys) he didn't play the Australian Open.
Him, Borg and Connors farmed the biggies at that time in the same way that Fed, Nadal and Djok have recently - the differences in training methods contributing to the current crops longevity and so better numbers, imo.

Yes I was explaining why I think MeEnroe was the greatest tennis player
Now try and follow this  , obviously other tennis players have won more

In snooker Davis has won more than Higgins , i was trying to explain why I think Higgins is greater

Faldo has won more than McIlroy ...

So what , it is more difficult to play golf like McIlroy than to play like Faldo
And in some ways it is more difficult to win tournaments playing like McIlroy

But playing that way , and playing the way McEnroe played tennis is also more beautiful

Understand ?

I'll understand when you provide a single thread of evidence to back up what you say.


At the moment we only have your usual nonsense

well I will ask you this , do you think Muhummad Ali was a better boxer than Valarie Klixko  ?

glad to see another Johnny Mac fan on here, LFC. He is my all-time fav tennis player, and one of my sporting heroes.

I don't care what anyone says, and I know his slam haul doesn't put him up with the GOATS, but I have never seen a player with so much natural ability (ok apart from Fed).
He played shots that we'd never seen before, impossible looking shots given the inferior equipment of the day - heavy rackets with much smaller heads, and heavier balls, etc

I do think there are similarities between Murray and McEnroe (flawed genius and temperament issues esp), but of course, Andy is not in his league. Nobody would ever argue that.

Wladimir

Quite right platini, you understand : )

and lets not forget, Mac is the commentator and pundit GOAT

It’s interesting who a sportsman has to face is also important
That McInroe had to face Borg was perfect , perfect

Ali had Frazier just at the right time

Coe and Ovett , perfect ...

Faldo, Westwood, Rose, Donald and Rory have all been World Number 1.

A long with Faldo, Rose and Rory, GMac has also won a major.

Murray benefits from BBC tv coverage AND the decades' long wait for UK tennis success.

Don’t forget Woosnam

Sandy Lyle won two , in fact won the masters before Faldo and made faldo think he could do it as well

( sandy was actually a more talented golfer than Faldo )

Pretty sure Lyle won the open before Faldo also , it was lyles success than meant other British golfers thought that they might be able to win majors also , he kick started it

Can he just stop crying for once already? Watch Bambi and get it out of his system?
I've been ok with it before but every freakin time he speaks he's now getting the sniffles.

Why was Lyle more talented than Faldo?

Most people would assume that the person with the more successful career would have more talented.



In snooker Davis has won more than Higgins , i was trying to explain why I think Higgins is greater


Davies won the head to head 23--4 including some big thrashings. Higgins being better than Davis is going to take some explaining.

**would have been more talented.

I think John Higgins has won more than Alex Higgins
have you answered my question about Muhummud Ali ?

Now I could explain why Lyle was more talented than Faldo

Lyle was able to hit shots naturally , from about the age of 14 , younger ?
That Faldo would never be able to hit at any time right through his career and now

I’m being a bit unfair on Faldo and Davis , they were both tremendous talents

Lyle was able to hit shots at 14 years of age that Faldo was unable to hit at any time.



Is there any limit to your stupidity.

It’s true jml I am not particularly intelligent , but this is a subject I understand

I that case you shouldn't have any difficulty in describing a couple of these shots in great details.

I will give you a little example from memory , its a long time ago , it was a golf tournament played in the most atrocious weather , very heavy wind and rain and it was so testing everyone it seemed was struggling to even break 90 at one point , in the end 86 or 87 was about the average perhaps more can’t recall
Lyle went out in the ferocius wind and rain , the worst of the conditions and , using a 1 iron from most tees ( a club golfers today no longer much use even in most benign conditions because it is such s difficult club ever for the best players )

Still Lyle could use it , and indeed had the ability to hit it tremendous distances , and went round in the wind and rain in almost perfect control
He finished I think with a 71 or 72,
A fellow professional , can’t recall his name , described it as the greatest game of golf he had ever seen

Can you PLEASE describe one of the shots.


No point talking about a tournament you can't remember about.

sandy in his pomp was as fine a golfer as ever played the game. he had a couple of stellar years & enjoyed the cash.
faldo was utterly driven & made the very best of his ability. lyle was more gifted, faldo more driven.
how did you get into this argument??? both great golfers

JML you don’t understand , I am not talking about individual shots , I am talking about every shot
You see when the weather is like that only the very best , most pure  ball strikers can survive and hit the golf shot long and straight and true , into the wind , in the cross winds , in the rain and the conditions of the weather and the course

You see ,it brings out any weakness , it magnifies any flaws in a golfers technique that he might have , that are there always there but highlighted when it is such ,  no one else could do it , only Lyle

As I say it was so remarkable that at least one of his fellow professionals described it as the greatest round of golf he had ever seen

So you're saying that Lyle at 14 could play every shot better than Faldo could at any time.

Oh for dear sake , no of course not

Lyle was able to hit shots naturally , from about the age of 14 , younger ?
That Faldo would never be able to hit at any time right through his career and now


Can you please discribe these shots in great detail.

I’ll let you into a little secret , most golfers even the very best professionals might hit perhaps 2 or 3 truly pure shots a round
Maybe not even that

I'd much prefer a discription of these shots---

Yes if you wish , when Lyle was about 14 he was able to drive the golf ball over 300 yds
Faldo I’m not sure , but his average as a professional player ( and a tall guy over 6ft ) was about 260 yds maybe less I’m not sure

Will that do ? Although of course you still dont understand what I’m talking about

Sandy Lyle , with the old golf clubs could hit a golf ball as far as anyone even today with modern tech and clubs and balls etc

I mean he could do that then , with an old fashioned driver.  or 1 iron whatever
He hit it miles

Faldo couldn’t , but then neither could almost everyone else

And Lyle could do it with all clubs in the bag , in all conditions ever the most testing and ferocious ,
When the flaws inherent in other players were exposed
Understand a little better now ?

Wow were do I start.

Lyle could do this but no one else could but I'm not going to provide a shred of evidence to back up my claim.

Sandy Lyle , with the old golf clubs could hit a golf ball as far as anyone even today with modern tech and clubs and balls etc


Anyone that knows anything about golf know this is a blatant lie.

But you just can't help yourself--you'll just say anything when you start ranting.

It’s there in the records , Lyle could drive the golf ball a long way  , Faldo couldn’t
Now that’s a simple as I can make it for you , you will have to read my posts a few times as you’re quite a slow learner

I am not getting involved in this. But I've been watching from a distance for about half an hour now.

I already know that Lyle was one of the longer hitters but he wasn't longer at 14 than Faldo was at his peak.

He was

and just to complicate things a little for you
I never said he was
Read what I said , you haven’t understood the basics

You see he could hit the golf ball in a way when he was 10 , 12 , 14 ...
that meant he would be able , as he got taller and stronger to hit the ball a very long way
He had that technique when he was 14 , he had it when he was 24
Faldo never did
Understand ?

Lfc, why do you dig a hole in the first place?

You've just got no idea what you're saying.

In 2 consecutive posts you firstly said HE WAS

You then followed it up by saying I NEVER SAID HE WAS


Do you agree you were lying when you said


Sandy Lyle , with the old golf clubs could hit a golf ball as far as anyone even today with modern tech and clubs and balls etc

I don’t really care if you want to make things up or not

I’ve explained them to you I suggest you stop floundering , no ones fooled by that

even if Faldo had won as many slams as Jack Niklaus, he still wouldn't be the GOAT sportsman.

Finau hits it longer than anyone. PGA wins: 1

Not sure why distance is so admired. Must be a testosterone thing.

Faldo's career record takes some beating: 97 weeks at Number 1. 6 Majors, 41 career wins.

Big advantage being able to hit the ball a long way , Nicklaus the greatest player was the longest when he first arrived on tour
So was woods

Of course golf tests all aspects of the game , that’s it’s beauty
nevertheless distance does help
McIlroy hits the ball a tremendous distance , that sets him apart

People forget just how far woods hit the ball when he was about 19
He played a practice round with Nicklaus and Palmer at the masters
And they , great players couldn’t believe it. So much so that they said they thought he might go on to win 10 masters
That’s 10 masters alone ( plus whatever other majors

The strange thing is Woods should never have gone anywhere near Butch Harmon or any of the other teachers
Yes he was superb , but they in a sense gradually ruined his swing

you are a golf expert now? you are such a fraud

He should have changed absolutely nothing from the age of 17
And he might well have won 10 masters

Think he won 4

he made a living

:) he did ok , but do you know he could never really enjoy the game or his career in the way that he should
He was compelled to find the perfect swing
When it doesn’t exist   , he had it when he was 17
Although it doesn’t exist

tight lies

Maybe he will win another masters in April , I hope so

The masters weekend , best time of the year : )

Golf, a game of great skill and beauty no doubt.


But not played by athletes, so doesn't enter the discussion at hand.

Plat - you're way out of order. Golfers not athletic???? Maybe this 1 minute clip might change your mind.

https://youtu.be/wKP_nW1D_FU

i like playing golf but so dull to watch, tennis is one of the best to watch imo
great to punt on as long as you are on the right side of the fix