I’m thinking of reading the bible

Much better fiction out there to read Steve. Handy to have a brush up if you're going to being going on a quiz show though [:silly:

I have actually read it,though I may have skipped a bit here and there. I read The Revised Version of The King James Bible,which I think came out in the 1880s and is still more or less readable.
The Old Testament actually has nothing much to do with Christianity,it is mainly a rather remarkable record,for its time,of the Jewish people. It is made up as has been said of different books written at different times by different people. Kings and Chronicles basically tell of the same events in only slightly different ways.
The New Testament is of course about the shadowy historical person that is Jesus Christ,but also about the spin put on his message by one of the first great PR men,St Paul.
One book in each of The Testaments reads as though it was written by somebody on magic mushrooms. Revelations has been very influential amongst mystics/extremists. Ezekiel on the OT is all too similar imo.

Best not to read the modern versions , read the King James Bible , very beautiful

Without it we wouldn’t have Shakespeare and Dylan and Springsteen

Most of Shakespeare predates the King James Bible and it is unlikely that is the version Dylan and Springsteen were familiar with. The original King James version was becoming "difficult" by the 19th century hence the Revised Version which was the accepted one around when I was young. I remember The New English Bible came out when I was in my teens and agree it didn't have the same resonance.
I've occasionally looked at the Gideon's Bible in hotel rooms and that looks to be another version.

yes that’s true but the point remains the King James influenced ( may have been written in part by Shakespeare ) all English and American literature
It’s party the reason why England had more great poets than every other country combined
and more  writers than other countries

People in England were taught it from an early age , it was very influencial in that way , down the centuries leading to Springsteen

Christianity was responsible for the society we enjoyed throughout and after the war years.
Where people were more likely to be honest and posses good manners than were not.
But as religion slipped away so did people's manners and moral standards until we arrived were we are now.

The major shift downwards regarding decent standards of behaviour has been more noticeable amongst working class people. A good example is the jail population.
But the whole of society has suffered for losing the code of ethics that  religion gave us.

Well I have good manners & I'm not religious in any way

Thank you very much for listening &  have a good day.

Agree with Pump .

It's a shame some people haven't the capacity look at society as a whole, without taking everything personally in a discussion.

Of course you don't need religion in order to be a decent person, and every religious person isn't decent either.

But on the whole religion produces far more decent people than those brought up without a code of conduct.

reading the King James Bible from an early age also contributed to England becoming the most intelligent nation on earth , of course
although that was then not now which might account for dr. crippen having to teach the basics of logical thought to pumphol and case

Let me explain , we are not talking about being religious
We are talking about reading the Bible , preferably the King James Bible

You might say why not read other holy books ?

well they are not written in English for a start , the language itself is very important

and then again it’s not only the language , other books such as the Koran are comletely incomprehensible whatever the language it is written in

There is a reason Springsteen’s language was English , and Elvis of course

Let’s put it this way , it couldn’t have been German or Chinese for example

I haven't read the Koran or Qu'uran or whatever but tbf not only is some of the OT clearly mythical but there are quite a lot of portions of it which hardly make any sense to a modern reader. That's true of Revelations in the NT as well imo though a lot of rather strange sects/cults think otherwise.

Yes there are parts  that are difficult to understand and strange but most of the King James Bible is understable and with many beautiful passages
It is a great work of literature , perhaps the greatest
The Koran however is incomprehensible in the vast majority and has none of these qualities whatsoever

Even the picture of Jesus walking beside the Sea of Galilee , well do  we have that in any other religious book ?
certainly not

Then there was his intelligence , the words he spoke
Most other religious leaders never say anything worthwhile whatsoever

It is the intelligence of the words , and in the words of the Bible
That’s important , it helped England become intelligent

The Koran is mainly gibberish , and the less we say of the life of Muhammad the better
You see these things are important

Yeah!!  BUT!!!  If you woz intending to be a conker and take over europe (for instance) ready good old Mo's book would be an excellent starter Volume.

Of course don’t forget the beauty of Christmas carols at this time of year
Mainly English ( notable exception silent night ) but from the Bible and the Christian religion
no other religions have Christmas carols , there you go

my tie pin is getting worser!!!   ....for instance - good old Mo's book  would be  etc

I LIKED SEVERAL STORIES.THE ONE ABOUT THE GOOD SAMARITAN. THE ONE ABOUT THE BROTHER WHO SPENT HIS INHERITANCE  FOOLISHLY BUT WAS WELCOMED BACK INTO THE FAMILY.BUT THE ONE THAT MADE ME REALLY THINK ,WAS THE ONE WHERE A NICE MAN GAVE JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES FOOD AND ACCOMODATION FOR THE NIGHT AND GAVE MONEY TO CHARITY .HE TO ME WAS A GOOD FAIR MAN .BUT JESUS SAID TO HIM GIVE ALL YOUR WEALTH AND POSSESIONS AWAY AND FOLLOW ME

I THOUGHT HERE IS A DECENT MAN AND CITIZEN WHO IS  A GOOD PERSON GIVING A PERCENTAGE OF WHAT HESXGOT AWAY .BUT JESUS WANTED HIM TO GIVE IT ALL AWAY AND FOLLOW HIM

I THOUGHT I COULDNT GIVE IT ALL AWAY.I THOUGHT HERE I AM TRYING TO BE A GOOD PERSON .BETTER THAN
99% OF THE REST BUT JESUS WANTS HIM TO SHED HIS WEALTH

I THOUGHT THATS GOING TOO FAR IN MY MIND


I DONT SWEAR AT THE JEHOVAS WITNESSES AND TRY AND BE NICE WHEN THEY COME TO MY HOUSE .THEIR ALWAYS SMART AND DONT INSULT YOU .THEY ARECONLY TRYING TO DO GOOD

Dr Crippen    04 Dec 18 12:03 
It's a shame some people haven't the capacity look at society as a whole, without taking everything personally in a discussion.


I'm surprised you thought I had taken it personally, I hadn't in the slightest, I was just pointing out that I regard myself as a pretty well mannered human being without religion coming into play one oita & if I feel that way I suspect there are many others that feel the same.

manners of course are not the same thing as being good
don’t confuse one with the other

You're right lfc having manners and being good are not the same. The same thing applies though - you do not need to be religious to be either.

of course not I’m not religious , so I’m sure that’s true : )

do you know why Jewish people are so intelligent and good at science etc ?

Well it’s because the first son was for centuries ( before most people could read and write )
Taught to read the Bible , and write from a young age
This very act made them more intelligent
And they were successful and reproduced and made more intelligent people
Very powerful thing the bible

You see it’s part of society , European civilisation without the non religious types like pumphol even realising it
Without Christianity there is no Europe and no freedom
They are not thankful

I must confess I've a bible given to me for good attendance at Bible Class in the Boy's Brigade, 1962 which I've never glanced at. If you didn't attend Bible Class you didn't qualify for selection for the football team the following Saturday, and that's how I got it.

I was the sane terry , if you didn’t go to the Sunday morning service you weren’t selected to play football the following Saturday
I loved football then

Religious blackmail, how lovely

not really we met our friends and really it seemed fair to us really even then

poor English : )

maybe we were taught that , not to be selfish I don’t know
certainly pumphol seems confused

And to thing he said he had good manners , well there you go

Please explain my " bad manners "

Thank you

Actually don't worry, if you really think I have said something out of turn there really is little point in conversing any further, & no nothing I have said as far as I'm concerned contistutes bad manners, now or before.

pumphol the officers who organised and took us for football gave up a large part of their saturdays , and if we were not playing at home most of their Saturdays for us
It’s wasn’t too much to ask that we should meet on a Sunday morning for an hour now is it ?
It’s at least good manners anyway to say well that’s ok

The bible wasn't written in English it was translated into English and undoubtedly lost some of it's original meaning.

The bible is, for the most part, exceedingly boring and tedious. There are, here and there, some literary brilliances and turns of phrase which have, for the most part, been extracted and turned into everyday aphorisms. I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying to read it as I suspect the text will achieve that of its own accord.

no other religions have Christmas carols , there you go


Kwality!

no other religions have Christmas carols , there you go


Kwality!

lfc1971
04 Dec 18 14:58
Joined: 06 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 29,319 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
I was the sane terry , if you didn’t go to the Sunday morning service you weren’t selected to play football the following Saturday
I loved football then


I know you mean me lfc. In our team was no leass than Johhny Bairstow's dad, who also played wicket-keeper for Yorkshire and England.

any cats in the bible btw?

Kenny one did get a mention in the saying - ''it's easier for a cat to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.''

And again:

''Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's cat.''

That's absolutely brilliant Dr. One did indeed get mentioned, once only.


Cat — Mention of this animal occurs only once in the Bible, namely Bar., vi, 21. The original text of Baruch being lost, we possess no indication as to what the Hebrew name of the cat may have been. Possibly there was not any; for although the cat was very familiar to the Egyptians, it seems to have been altogether unknown to the Jews, as well as to the Assyrians and Babylonians, even to the Greeks and Romans before the conquest of Egypt. These and other reasons have led some commentators to believe that the word cat, in the above cited place of Baruch, might not unlikely stand for another name now impossible to restore.

Not sure kenny , but have yourself a meowy little Christmas anyway : )

fc 1971
no other religions have Christmas carols , there you go

That is because no other religion has Christmas!..it is a Christian religious festival

Also Europe did exist BEFORE Christianity.

The Romans were not Christians to begin with, but they converted.


I agree with Dr Crippen

As our belief in Christianity has lessened, we have lost a lot of our ethical values, which Christianity gave us.

Although we can be a good Atheist if we want to.

to be fair lfc1971

I like Christmas Carols...Christianity gets a tick for them

Did you know that Moses rode a British motorbike?

the roar of Moses' Triumph is heard in the hills

...and race-fixing is nothing new:

Jesus told Lazarus to "come Fourth"

The problem is not so much with Christian or dare I say religious values.

It is the hypocrites that purport to follow the religions!

Is there something about Rebecca lighting a Camel?

The disciples of Jesus were together in one Accord.

I THOUGHT I COULDNT GIVE IT ALL AWAY.I THOUGHT HERE I AM TRYING TO BE A GOOD PERSON .BETTER THAN
99% OF THE REST BUT JESUS WANTS HIM TO SHED HIS WEALTH

Do not beat yourself up over this DOO WAH....I do not think any one else on here would either?

Although there are some who have given all their money away gambling...but that is not quite the same.

I think it does everybody good whether Christian or anything else to give something to charity
especially this time of year.
We can pick our own charities.

It makes for a better world I think.

The Mormons expect their followers to give 10% of their income to charity annually.

That would be a bit steep for some who struggle financially, but we should all try to give something I feel?

Charities are mainly self-serving money making organisations.
Little of the money collected by charities goes where it's supposed to go.

Better to give cash directly to the poor, instead of donating it towards buying some director a new car or keeping charity workers in jobs.

I see...we can trust no one

I will probably give anyway...animals ones...just hope some gets through to the animals

UBLE REGY .I USED TO GIVE LARGE AMOUNTS TO THE TRAMPS HOME .I ONCE BOUGHT THEM SONE NEW BEDS AND GAVE BIG AMOUNTS TO LOTS OF CHARITIES WHEN I HAD LOADS I EVEN GAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 2000POUNDS BECAUSE MY EX WIFES FRIEND WHO WAS CATHOLIC AND A WONDERFUL LADY WHO WAS GOING TO TAKE HER IN WHEN I FOUND OUT SHE SWAS PREGNANT AND ABANDONED SHIP .SHE WAS A GOOD LADY AND DIED EARLY OF CANCER .I SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO HER CHILDREN AS THEY DIDNT HAVE MUCH .BUT I GAVE IT THE CHURCH  AND IM NOT FELIGOUS.BUT NOW I HAVE NO MONEY I JUST GIVE TO THE HOMELESS AND THATS NOT MUCH.IVE EVEN STOOD IN THE FOOD QUE AND GOT FOOD WHEN ONCE I GAMBLED ALLMY MONEY AWAY AND HADNOT EATEN FOR THREE DAYS.ONE MIN IM BUYING NEW CARS AND HOLIDAYING IN BARBADOS AND MEXICO AND DISNEYLAND AMERICA AND THE NEXT MIN STANDING IN THE FOOD QUE WITH THE HOMELESS STARVING

I am pleased you give to charity Doo Wah.

Of course Dr Crippen is right we cannot trust everyone sadly.

But I still think we should give.

Some charities are pretty solid, and I always give something to buskers


I can see you giving far too much Doo Wah, also control of your gambling could be a little better tbh?

But I am glad you give Doo Wah, well done

[   This image is no longer available.   ]

Let us know how you got on when you've finished. Ta.   

Norse mythology is far more interesting and alluring than plain old God / Jesus.

I totally agree there Lybertine…...Odin, Thor, etc.


In fact most early religions had far more interesting gods than Christiany, Greece, Rome, etc

It was like a soap opera of the Gods


Yet after a long time persecuting Christians and keeping the Lions fed with them, the Romans suddenly converted.

The key conversion I think....yes it is strange?


But Christianity seems a little on the retreat now, Western Societies have tuned to Science and the more primitive

to 'M' I think you know who I mean.

The Norse gods interacted with each other, as did I suspect the Greek and Roman gods.  Having one, solitary, jealous God is somewhat dull.

I like Buddhism as a religion.

Although actually Buddhism is not really a religion at all, Buddha was a man who thought 'want'

lay at the heart of human suffering.


Although he did believe in re incarnation, we live many lives until we finally achieve enlightenment

and are not reborn?


I do think our consumer driven societies of today go much for Buddhism myself.

'dull' you are right there lybertine, I think the Norse Gods had a wonderful life.

and I think we join them when we die, fighting(although nobody really dies), easting and drinking permanently


I like watching sports(mens) and do the eating and drinking, so am closer to them than jesus

I also like to gamble, I am sure those Norse Gods did that as well

I do think sb I do NOT think in my Buddhism post

In this modern day I found it ridiculous that people believe in some supreme being.

Yes between the Hubble Telescope and Darwin.....

You would think we have killed God?


But some people still need to believe in something outside of reality

and of course we all go to Heaven when we die, if we can believe it, although perhaps not all

The 'M's still believe don't they, they seem to growing stronger not weaker as one would think.

Strange that?

Job is laugh-a-minute

Imagine if you was the only person on the planet to believe in God and you went around telling people that theres a supreme being and that when you die you go to a place called heaven where you live forever and ever. They'd lock you up

One of our boys managed it ufcdan.

You are all reading the wrong book if you are thinking of survival.  oooops !!

One of our boys managed it ufcdan.


??????

Jesus Christ ufcdan.

It was the Disciples said Jesus rose from the dead

I doubt he survived his crucifixion, they finished him off with a spear through his side.

Slightly more merciful than breaking his knees which normally happened, in deference to his mother being present.

He must have been dead surely.

Nobody saw him except his Disciples after this, nobody else saw him

Did he rise from the dead? The whole of Christianity depends on this.

I saw a Jamie Theakston program on Yesterday, said the year Jesus was crucified, the Roman crucified

150 Messiahs.


He was trying t pinpoint the tomb where they put Jesus's body, but it still not quite clear.

Jesus Christ ufcdan.

I think Jesus probably did exist but he was not the son of God. Some people can command an audience. Look at Obama in Berlin before he was elected 100,000 turned out for that. As for bringing people back from the dead, probably knew CPR. And rising from the dead, probably in a coma, came out of it but succumbed to his injuries three days later !

That could have happened ufcdan. Crucifixion was a traumatic experience, people did not usually survive it.

Assuming his Diciples took his body from the tomb to somewhere else. He could have round for a while three days later  and then

succumbed to his injuries. Thy did not have much in the way of medical treatment in those days.


Although the Romans crucified a lot of people, they would have thought he was dead when they took him down.

But it is a practical explanation ufcdan.

Would Christians really like it it though?

Works for me, if I pop my clogs in the night you'll know I was wrong

I am sure you won't ufcdan.

It may well have seemed like a miracle to his disciples when he came round, he had come from the dead.

I think they would have given him some water to sip, but Jesus himself could well have realised he was in a very bad way and was

not going to recover.

He probably said something like 'Spread my word', 'I go to meet my father'. Then he was gone

This could well work I think...I am sure we will survive to morning ufcdan, erm...probably?????

how small life is , and how big nothingness

I was thinking or reading the bible, as a kid, after reading all of my "Billy Bunter" books, but only struggled through Chapter one of "Genesis", when
It was blatantly obvious (even to my eight year old head, that it was beyond ridiculous!

I did better with "Harry Potter", that someone had left on the swing seat, but five or six pages was more than enough, so I went back to reality
with the magazine "Car".....

Touch and go but I made it

Well we have solved one of Christ's miracles, we now have to solve his other miracles

with a practical explanation??


Walking on Water...hmmm?????

I remember liking Billy Bunter books when I was younger Lady Verrit

I don't think they are necessarily PC nowadays...although I cannot think they were that bad?


Societies values change with time, who knows what they will be in 100 years time.

i'm thinking of buying one after all this kerfuffle with brexit

UR; my RE teacher at school 'explained' the walking on water quite simply. He said "The tide had gone out"
i must add he was also our hockey master as well

i must add he was also our hockey master as well

Doesn't know what the puk has talking about

Quick fact,

Jesus was actually going to be called Dave but just as the Rabbi got to the crucial bit of the ceremony the baby defecated and the Rabbi involuntarily cried out 'Oh, Jesus Christ!" and the rest is history.

I would have thought people might have noticed that?